I wish you luck, Cynthia. Sadly I have no help on where to find your past treasures.

I'm so sorry, Cynthia. A Reverence for Roses is offering Elizabeth Stuart now. https://www.areverenceforroses.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=elizabeth&Submit=GO 

Thank you, Cynthia for showing us those rare gems. My neighbor has some of striped roses (bright orange striped and red stripe too), and THEY ALWAYS have blooms on. Will ask her where she gets them from.

'Heart of Gold' is the intended improved variant of 'World Peace'. I know its not the same, but something to consider if you cannot find it. Its an easy rose. Taller than WP, but similar, as well.

I ordered two Charles de Gaulle from Palatine in 2019, and they've offered it a couple of times since then. So it's in and out of their rotation. Keep checking!

I believe Rogue Valley Roses has Charles de Gaulle in stock.

https://roguevalleyroses.com/rose/charles-de-gaulle/

If you cant get elizabeth from reverance for roses , i have it ! id be happy to share :)

I can see why you want those roses back...they're all so beautiful!!! I hope that RRD never comes back to your yard. I'm glad you haven't given up on roses or on us. <3 :) :)

Cynthia, I am so sorry that you lost so many unusual roses. I hope you are able to find them somewhere and bring them home. Good luck to you.

I have Smiling Jean (allegedly). I am not 100% sure that it is correct. Mine came from Rogue Valley Roses maybe 8 or 9 years ago. It doesn't appear to be offered this year but you might try asking them if it will be offered again. It has been a good rose here. Again, I am not sure of my rose's identity but am willing to send a cutting if you can't find another one elsewhere.

Cynthia,

Good luck! I hope your new rose journey brings you many roses and much joy. I appreciate your conscientious honesty in asking for cuttings only from roses that are out of patent.

These aren't my kind of roses and I'm on the wrong continent anyway, so I have no practical help to offer. Just my best wishes, and I hope you have fun. Melissa

I share Melissa 's sentiments and wish you the best, Cynthia.

The CCRS rose auction has Shades of Autumn and it may have others as well. Best of luck!

Cynthia, sorry to hear you lost all of your roses. I remember you used to have 1,200 roses. Hope you garden will be filled with blooms again in the near future. I don’t have any of the roses on your list. wish you luck to bring them back to your garden. You could email Peter/Freedom Gardens in Ohio, he has some rare roses.

Thanks so much to everyone for the responses! I am touched by your support and good wishes for further rose growing. Melissa & Bart - even from overseas your concern and encouragement is welcome. Sheila & Carol, your hope that RRD doesn't come back is one I echo, but we all have to watch for it in these parts. Straw, I always look forward to more striped roses so let me know what you find.

I'm rather astonished that this post went through as it whirred for about an hour on my end and disappeared. It only just showed up on GW for me tonight as I went back in to repost this message. I think all the pictures might have thrown it. I'm glad it posted though - sorry I wasn't able to respond till now.

Susan & Marascz - thanks for the info on Charles de Gaulle! I did see it in stock at Rogue Valley and bought it, along with some Barden roses that just happened to jump in my cart. Hafta buy those when they're in stock as they only come and go occasionally at RVR. I'm not sure if CdG will perform as well own root for me as grafted, but it'll perhaps tide me over until Palatine offers it again.

Kim & Lilyfinch I do see that A Reverence for Roses carries Elizabeth Stuart but it's out of stock ATM. I'll try to buy it from them next year, and get ahold of you Lily if it stays out of stock. I like to support our vendors if possible.

Karen, that Smiling Jean sounds intriguing - I checked RVR and they don't even list it as out of stock which makes it unlikely to resurface anytime soon. I still don't have the skills to root a cutting but let me try this season and I'll get back to you if I can make it work. No sense sending a cutting if I can't successfully root it!

Jadae thanks for the update about Heart of Gold. I had that one too and it was nice but mostly a one-cane wonder (even grafted) with one bloom at a time on top of the plant. I'd still probably replace it if I find it again but it's not as high a priority.

Alice, thanks for the heads-up about the auction. Is it active now? As I recall they are able to ship roses to other locations if the bid is successful.

Summers, I've been checking the Freedom Gardens list and didn't see any of these particular roses on the offerings even for custom roots, but there are many intriguing ones I may break down and buy from him. He has Nimbus which is one of my white whale roses ever since I lost mine years ago. That "greyge" tone is just amazing.

As long as you're being such helpful detectives, I'll send a list of (presently) unobtainable patented roses to see if anyone sees them somewhere.

Thank you all for the help!

Cynthia

Cynthia .. a reverence for roses is fantastic company and if you email them asking about the rose I bet they’ll earmark a plant for you and let you know when it’s ready. They are a very sweet nursery!

And in case you don’t know Peter at freedom gardens has much more than is posted online . Give him a call or email and you may be astonished at all he has . I know I was ! Only one rose I couldn’t find from him ( and it’s been years so maybe he has access to it now )

Cynthia, my original two Charles de Gaulles were own root from Vintage 21 years ago, and they've done great for me own root for all that time. Of course, we're in different zones, but that might make you feel better about an own-root CdG. I jumped on the ones from Palatine in 2019, because mine were getting elderly, and CdG was hard to find. But my two original own-roots are still doing great :-D

Cynthia, the auction is underway now and they will ship across the US. I saw the Shades of Autumn under the silent auction.

https://ccrsauction.com/index.php

Thanks Lilyfinch! Once I finish working through what is already available elsewhere I'll work on contacting Peter probably toward next year. My trouble is that I want soooooo many on his custom as well as ready list that I shouldn't be asking for more trouble - I mean roses.

I will drop ARFR a note about Elizabeth Stuart and I've got a list of four other roses that are out of stock I could bundle with that next year.

Thanks for the pep talk Susan about own root CdG. I used to strongly advocate that own root roses are better in my climate than grafted till I proved myself wrong a couple of years ago. I think everyone on GW was right (and I was wrong) that in my zone I shouldn't be planting own roots directly into the garden but let them grown on for a time in pots. Finally I've worked out a system that not only kept pots alive in the summer but also overwintered them. I think once it's established it has a chance of being hardy, particularly now that we're officially zone 6a.

Thanks! I'll post some other irreplaceable roses that I've had - but true confessions these weren't dead from RRD, just faded or otherwise didn't overwinter. I'd still love to find replacements of these.

Cynthia

Cynthia, I went through a phase maybe 15 years ago where I replaced a bunch of grafted roses with own root, and most of them did fine. But there were (and still are) some glaring exceptions of roses who really don't do well own root. In total agreement about potting up the own roots to give them some heft before planting in their permanent homes.

Since you've all been such great detectives for my highest priority roses killed by RRD, I thought I might ask your input about some others that I've lost over time. I'll specify which ones are out of patent vs. still in patent, but only a few are ones I lost to RRD. Instead, they mostly became irreplaceable when the three sources they came from became unavailable, with a few exceptions here and there.

To avoid Houzz having a meltdown I'll do a post with pictures of the ones from various sources:

Ludwig Roses/Agave Farms: I was so glad I jumped on roses in the brief two years Ludwig's sold out of Arizona. A few of them have been showing up at Heirloom but otherwise they're still not much in the US. I don't dare look at their South Africa listings or the drool shorts out my keyboard:

Amber Panarosa, Apricot Panarosa aren't patented but Payapa Panarosa is: OGR very double form and great fragrance: I can only find a blurry picture of Papaya that doesn't do it justice.

Beauty From Within: glowing HT form with mutable sunset colors. Also not a great picture but I wasn't taking a lot of pictures back in 2016

SOS Children's Rose - beautiful vivid striped Delbard flori that was pretty hardy for several seasons

While I'm on the LR/AF cycle, here are dearly beloved ones I did lose to RRD but are still in patent:

Candice - I don't need to sing her praises here on GW - she's just glorious

Myrth (Myth) - a haunting dark red with white reverse, again surprisingly hardy

Purple Lodge - I hear that Long Ago Roses might occasionally carry this one so I'm hoping it becomes available. It really is that purple with fading to dusty lavender and getting some pink hints in heat (but never totally pinking out)

Mama Africa - Another one I'd claw through broken glass for but it wasn't lost to RRD, and it's still patented: an indescribable deep russet color that is almost without compare

I couldn't decide - here's another mood of Mama Africa

Thanks for checking to see if these are sold anywhere! On to the next vendor that is sadly lamented.

Cynthia

I bought a ton of parent plants from Eurodesert when Cliff stopped selling the roses from his business and some of them were dearly beloved roses. Jack's Wish was in my top 20 roses easily and not available anywhere I could find till I sent out cuttings pre-RRD (thankfully!). I'm lookng forward to having him back. I tried to send cuttings of Celeb but it was fading and not robust enough to take, then didn't return that winter.

So here are some NOT patented wishlist roses from Eurodesert that I'd love to find somewhere:

Celeb (out of patent? since it's 20 years from 2004 apparently) - haunting apricot sunset colors with huge OGR style blooms - it's a shrub so it should be hardy. I love the contrast reverse so i'll show a bloom and a bush shot:

Blue Bajou - a true dark lavender that is apparently very available in Europe and South Africa but I can't find it here. Not a good picture but it's all I have of this one.

Chantilly Lace is another wonderful lavender mauve I would love if nothing else for the song, but it was a lovely bloom. No pictures sadly.

Similarly, no picture of the heartstopping Florizel with ruffled fringed salmon blooms that were double and striking.

Speaking of striking, one single bloom of Gilbert Becaud could draw my eye from way across the yard. I planted him in poor conditions so it's amazing he survived as long as he did, and I mourned him when he didn't return after about 4 winters. Just look at that clean foliage too - nothing photoshopped at all.

No photos of Hiroshima's children but she was high contrast too with coral edges I rarely see in that color on cream blooms.

Lila Vidri seems to be in circulation here and there so I'm hoping to see her back one day. For a Dot rose and lavender she was pretty hardy in not ideal conditions . Can't find a photo of her either.

O'Rilla is another haunting russet that I've not been able to find since, no photos.

Paul Cezanne and Rose des Cisterciens are both Delbard striped roses that no one seems to be carrying, along with Claude Monet from Vintage. Hopefully the recent enthusiasm for the Painter series will extend to these. I saw Claude Monet from someone - maybe Freedom gardens - so it might be obtainable (that one is patented). Rembrandt van Rijn is an honorary member of the Painter club but it's a Williams rose not Delbard (not patented). I can't find pictures of any of these.

Spicy and Terra Cotta are both terrific russet HTs that have come and gone from RV stock and they might have briefly passed through Heirloom but I can't find them recently. Here's Terra Cotta:

Vendee Imperiale is another oddball in tan/champagne colors that I don't have photos of - check out Beth's pictures on HMF though.

Among patented Eurodesert roses, there are a few dearly missed ones:

Andre Willemse is a mutable orange/yellow stripe that works in some white stripes too. It made a tall sturdy bush and I was shocked when it didn't overwinter one year.

All patented:

Farfalla is a Kriloff HT with a truly tangerine picotee edge on a white bloom. Sadly no pictures. Steve Chase has a similar look - Rippetoe flori - so Wisconsin roses might carry it one day.

Similarly no pictures for Ibiza, an Interplant apricot/yellow rose I could see Palatine interested in.

Lastly, I'd love to have Mrs. Robinson back again to honor Cliff's breeding skills as well as a lovely rose. This one is still patented.

On to one last vendor then some miscellaneous ones. Thanks for putting up with the posts!

Cynthia

The obvious much lamented vendor is Vintage Roses. I also lament Uncommon Rose's passing and I have a few to mention under miscellaneous, but I was just starting to grow roses when UR went out of business.

Here are some out of patent roses I'd love to find that I'd gotten from Vintage.

Bolchoi (in this case, MEIruchka but I'd take any of the similar Bolchoi from MEI) - as you might guess it's vivid orange with yellow reverse and highlights. I hate to wear orange but love its punch in the garden.

Vesper is another haunting russet that probably isn't very hardy (didn't stay around long enough for pictures) but I'd love to try again.

Charlotte Brownell was a lovely and long lasting soft color (yes, I can like soft colors) that held its own. Probably my favorite of the Brownells.

Coral Satin was a rare orange climber that actually stayed orange and only faded to an orange sherbet kind of color. Robust and hardy.

I'd love to find Gracie Allen to go with George Burns again even though her pink center and white outer isn't a good fit for George's red/y punch.

Marieken was a tough workhorse that fit in the coral section of the cold part of my yard. A reliable rebloomer though not huge flushes:

Rumba was a nice constant blooming mini in - yes - vivid orange/yellow colors. I would think others would have it but Poulsen roses other than the patio minis are hard to find.

Berries n Cream isn't as striking but it is striped and it lasted a good 6 years in terrible conditions.

There's a whole list of others I don't have photos of that I don't see elsewhere any more: Epoca (deep black-red), Fantastique (very double cream w/pk edge), Pilar Landecho (more sunset colors, Nadal HT), Summer Rainbow (more sunset colors - yellow reverse on Jelly HT), Taischa (smoky lavender Robinson HT that probably won't survive well for me - sigh), Tarde Gris (same, only a Dot HT - Palatine had this 12 years ago), Tea Time (Tantau apricot with orange center).

I've seen Shi-un (Lavender) at Burlington occasionally, The Imposter (high contrast mutable single) has showed up now and then, and Hummingbird had Tropical Amazone (more sunset colors)

You're probably tired of all this wishing, and hoping, and planning, and scheming (is that the 60's song line??), but at least if nothing else it's some eye candy of lovely roses. I may post my "assorted vendor" wish list roses if you're interested, but it's getting late.

Let me know if you find these anywhere! Thanks for listening.

Cynthia

Me, too, but I still find it difficult to get them to establish. Actually, this year I'm doing a test. Rose Barni says that bare-root roses planted out directly have a certain advantage over potted roses, in that they start out immediately in their permanent spot,whereas if they are used to growing in a pot, they have to re- adjust once planted out in the ground. So this was a perfect excuse for me to buy six bare-root roses and plant them out straight. It's not much of a test, however, since this year we've been getting good rain (unlike the past several years), plus I'm really knocking myself out trying to improve my husbandry. However I am very grateful- I believe it was you, Cynthia, for having brought this subject up in an earlier thread, and it got me thinking.

Thanks Bart and Susan for the thoughtful reflections on planting own roots directly vs. allowing them to grow first. I am still torn about what works best for me, and it may depend on the quality of soil where I'm planting them and how robust the root systems are of the roses and how hardy or tough the rose itself is. The rain totally makes a difference and I'm making a resolve more than anything this spring to well water everything I plant, newly purchased or potted up to grown. I fill the planting hole with water, let it drain, fill it again with a well-watered plant, and then water it in periodically over the next month at least.

I have planted in the ground without reservation roses that are well suited for my zone like Nur Mahal or Rose de Rescht once they are done acclimating to my weather for a bit. I know some vendors have relatively less robust root systems that benefit from a little more time to grow in the season before I plant them and I've seen a better survival rate if I don't plant them in the ground immediately. I had a few fussy-pants HTs survive the winter far better in pots than they did in the ground from the same vendor, so that has to be a factor too.

Bottom line is that there are a lot of variables to consider and like everything else with rose growing it's a matter of judgment. That's part of the fun. Glad that discussion was useful for your own thought processes! I benefit from your input too.

Cynthia

Sorry about RRD. I have to deal with it from time to time and really hate it. I've started planting other things like reblooming azaleas. Hoping it will prevent RRD from spreading too easily. The blooms aren't an nice as roses, but the plants are easier to keep healthy. And they keep most of their leaves year round. At least in zone 7.

O. Charles, I LOVE azaleas! but trying to grow them out at my land would be a total "penguins in the desert" proposition. In fact, the only place in Italy where I ever saw azaleas and rhododendrons growing in the ground was up in the north, near Lake Maggiore. Everywhere else, they are grown exclusively in pots, it seems.

Cynthia, I admire your resilience and determination to carry forward! I liken such to myself and my battles with growing clematis. At my previous residence having had a very large ever expanding collection, moving to the new place and nothing but major challenges getting the plants to establish, though I'm not giving up! :)

Thanks for the sympathy Charles and FrozeBudd! I do have other plants in the garden that tided me over last year when I was completely roseless. I do a lot of spring bulbs so the azaleas and rhododendrons are a bit extraneous, though I do like having a few lilacs. I have daylilies and phlox and asters and things like that everywhere, so I have to place my roses carefully. My clematis grows like a weed and I have to watch that it doesn't overwhelm the rose. I'm not sure I could handle an actual collection like you FrozeBudd, but I like a variety.

Beth you are incredibly generous to share some rooted cuttings after all your loss! You're been in my thoughts after the big fire and it's a joy to see you posting pictures again of your roses. I would be happy to trade when the roses get back to a reasonable size, but since I'm starting back from scratch I don't have any of the interesting roses I posted above, just things that I can buy nowadays. Anything that I have that's out of patent I'd be happy to trade when it's big enough. I can send you a list of what I have in a direct email if you like. My home email is my user name here 11 at ymail dot com.

From what you listed, I'd be absolutely ecstatic to replace Clair Renaissance, Heart 'n Soul, Meilland Decor Arlequin (when it's big enough) Tenacious and New Imagine/Just Imagine. If your friend is able to root World Peace that would also be great, but it may be a challenging one to root. I did buy Charles de Gaulle from RVR on someone's alert that it was in stock, but I appreciate that offer. I am quite patient to wait till you and the roses are ready, as long as the weather is OK to ship whenever you're ready. I have years of planting to catch up on, as you did after the fire. Take your time to heal and send cuttings to people you're already committed to helping. I'm happy to take my place in line and be grateful for your help! I hope the recovery is going smoothly and that you're listening to your body and resting when you need to.

Wow! So between the possible rooted cutting of Smiling Jean from Karen, the Shades of Autumn from the auction, Elizabeth Stuart from A Reverence for Roses or Lilyfinch, Charles de Gaulle from RVR and the wonderful roses you're offering, that is the majority of my list! What a wonderful community this is!! At this point, Scottish Highlands jumps to the top of my wish list with Erfordia and Bonita Renaissance, but I am truly blessed with these offers.

Thank you all so much!

Cynthia

FrozeBudd - I can't grow clematis either. And I did give up. lol

Cynthia - that's excellent to hear that you're getting replacements for your roses you lost...you're so right...this is an excellent community!! :) :)

I could only grow atragene and koreana clematis in z3 Alaska. Here, I am having mixed results as the large flowered clematis can cook here and peter out.

Rosecanadian and Sheila, large flowered clematis were my first passion, had dived in deep with several import orders from the UK. Sadly, a few years later, plants were keeling over with wilt and weird root issues. Since attempting to reestablish at the new place, success has been slim. I do though manage fine with other clematis types, just not the large flowered beauties.

My zone 3 in Alaska was just too cold for the large flowered beautiful plants I tried there. I tried and tried and the climate won out.

I will look to try a Koreana type or atragene here and see how they do.

FrozeBudd - that's too bad. Could you grow the large flowered varieties in pots?

Yes, I've grown some of the compact Evsion clematis in large pots, though anything that stays long term in containers always falls to some degree of neglect. I have about ten clematis on order for spring with hopes of having overcome the previous issues, only time shall tell! Roses on the other hand, I'm much better with even despite my brutal zone 3 winters. I plant the graft a good three inches below grade and mound with soil in late autumn and pretty well am guaranteed success with most hybrid teas and floribundas ... but, only the hardiest of larger shrub types manage well here and a literal very few climbers.

Well, good luck with your new clematis plants!! I hope they are delightful and grow well for you. :)

Heya Cynthia,

A useless comment from me since I am not on the same continent and worse, I don't even grow that many roses anymore but just want to post my admiration for your indomitable spirit. I thought I had a true pash but it turns out I am just a dilettante so yep, sending you my hopeful thoughts that you get the garden you honestly truly deserve in the face of unstinting service to rose love.