European Oak can be used flat cut without as much open grain of NA White Oak. So, quercus robur vs. quercus alba. Two different species out of the 300 oak species. You see European or French Oak widely available in wide plank engineered flooring produced in Malaysia, Vietnan and China. Monarch Plank is a flooring source among many others. Other oaks may be subbed in, like Siberian Oak. Prime flat cut can include more of the grain movement in the wood, or it can be rustic grade with knots , etc. DOCA, a Spanish cabinet company is a source. Ikea Vedhamn manufactures in Hungary with European Oak.

Rift cut mimics the Vedhamn above.

Unfinished prime grade from Monarch. Ciranova Ecofix Plus retains the unfinished tone.

DOCA.

“European Oak can be used flat cut because it's denser without the open grain of NA White Oak.”

European Oak is not as dense as American White Oak. European oak is usually well under 700 kgs per cubic meter and America White Oak is over 750 kgs per cubic meter. American White Oak is also about 20% harder than European Oak.

European Oak has more color variation than American Oak and has more tannins so it tends to take stains more evenly, French Oak is generally the softest of the Europen Oaks but has higher tannins still and can look really beautiful in certain projects.

As to the appearance, flat sawn European Oak is still going to have cathedrals in the grain and you are going to see them. The wood is more consistent overall so the cathedrals don’t always dominate the same way. I would prefer quarter over rift or flat and your picture looks quarter sawn but your best bet is to get a door made and see if you like it. I would also use American over European but I have used both and don’t mind either.

Get a door or THREE made well in advance of production as sample strikes. This is a much harder look to achieve than you think: )

Cabinets should be completely finished at install.

Every part of the wood, no matter what variety , will take a stain differently. No matter the stain.

You have the wrong cabinet maker if you need to tell him any of that. Find someone who tells you how he achieves that look. Be ready to open up your pocketbook wide.

The oak here, in flat slab on the island and hood? VENEER. For just this reason. Same in the bath.....

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Just to be clear... Plywood is a veneer. So most people making cabinets are making them from veneers, they are just buying them as plywood. If you have access to a good plywood supplier, there really is no reason to buy veneers separately. My plywood supplier offers sequenced veneer core plywood with 1/8 or 1/16 cores.

It really is not that expensive either. I pay about $140 per sheet for Quarter/Rift White Oak plywood. Rotary cut Maple plywood is $115 per sheet. So while it is more expensive, it is not crazy.

I like White Oak... There is a reason we made ships from White Oak for a pretty long time. It is a good wood for kitchens and I love it whether staining or painting.

I corrected the density when I see alba is 1350lb. Janka and robur is 1120 Janka hardness.

Expecting AI generated fake pictures to be real life will always end in disappointment. Be sure to have realistic real life expectations. Wood is a natural substance, and varies in appearance even from the same tree. It behaves like wood. It expands and contracts and needs humidity control. White oak naturally ambers a bit as it ages, because it's real wood.

Many people find themselves actually wanting the appearance of a thermofoil or laminate material, or AI generated images, rather than something real, varied, and changing. It doesn't matter if you pay the 150K for inset rift sawn white oak cabinets. They are still going to be made of wood, and behave like wood.

THIS? Custom built. Simple Minwax "gray" w/clear coat on white oak.

Not as light, as you can see, but still lovely.

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We are building and installed white oak cabinets. The sealer we used was Bona natural sealer. It gives a nice natural look, although there is some golden/yellow in it. Your cabinet maker should give you a sample of each of the types of cuts you can get so you can see them in person. I think we did a Select. I didn't care as much for the Rift. Once you select that, ask for samples of some different stain options on the actual lot of wood that your cabinets have been made of. The wood you get may be different than another one and the stain may look slightly different. We learned this the hard way with some alder. Here is a picture of our white oak cabinets.

Brittany:

Get the quartersawn if you can afford it. You're going to be looking at these cabinets for a long time.

@JanMoyer that is a very beautiful colour, thanks for sharing the stain! Same with @SaraD, I’ll have to test out both stains with my flooring

@Jan Moyer what type of cut is that White Oak? Now you have me excited there’s a stain that I can work with :)

That was rift sawn as I recall! No matter what? Have him make you a full five piece door and drawer sample.

Spend the time - and know that even then? It is WOOD!

If you look closely at the lake house kitchen ? even on a drawer face? Differences in tone!

The most important aspect of your kitchen is the layout and the functions for ease of prep, and cook. Also of course, harmony in finishes with flooring, tops and cabinets all considered together: )

You don't live in a photo shoot, and attempting to replicate exactly, altered images from the internet is generally a fools errand!

Images will change at the speed of light- get a kitchen for a much longer and happier duration.

Thank you Jan, you have been so helpful!

You should watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaeCREsM024

I also have no idea where you are in Canada, but do not give veneer a bad name : )

You can control it......and the consistency. You want "modern organic?" I wouldn't even think of inset. Lends itself far more to a more traditional look jmho.

Nothing wrong with mixing painted and oak, either!

Go back and look at this island - the man is a craftsman major league: ) and built every inch, painted, oak and all.

The rest of the house with that other kitchen that actually WAS quite modern and organic: ) AND YES, VENEER. and paint. Slab too. Factory custom color and stain/Pioneer

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Hi Brittany. Did you ever find a stain that works? I too am losing sleep over my cabinets. I am also looking for that organic, clean rift look with a warm caramel undertone by the person that my cabinet maker uses for painting/staining, just can't seem to achieve the color I'm looking for. I thought that I finally found the right stain but my cabinet makers said he's no longer using that color formula because the white pigment in the stain makes the cabinets look aged faster. This is driving me crazy and I'm about to just say "paint them". May I ask how your project turned out and which stain you used? Thanks.

Hi Brittany. I too am losing sleep over my cabinets. I am also looking for that organic warm white oak look but my cabinet maker is struggling to get the stain right as he outsources the painting/staining of his cabinets. He had a formula he used to use but the white pigment ratio was making the project he used it on look older/aged faster so he's discontinued using that formula. Did you ever end up finding a stain that works? This is driving me crazy. It's taking so long that I'm about to just tell the cabinet maker to paint all our new cabinets. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

@pdxmom6 I did. I ended up going to Benjamin Moore with my wood samples and we picked a stain together. It was easier than going back and forth with the cabinet maker.
They turned out great!

Wow Brittany. You're brilliant !! Thank you SO much for replying so fast. I truly appreciate it. Your cabinets look beautiful. They don't read yellow at all. So is this a stock stain or custom made by Benjamin Moore? If stock, may I ask which one? Also did you end up going with rift sawn or quarter? THANK YOU SO MUCH again.

@pdxmom6 I ended up going with rift sawn white oak. I showed some inspiration photos to the employee at Benjamin Moore, it took a couple of tries but we ended up with that stain. (Custom made)
I liked the process so much I ended up picking custom stains for my staircase and mantels as well. Best of luck on your project!!
I know how stressful it can be finding a colour that works with your preferences and house.

Thanks Brittany. I have a BM store close to me. I'll take some inspiration photos with me to see if they can help. It's really disappointing that even with a billion inspiration photo's and full access to my pinterest boards, my cabinet maker couldn't figure out how to make the stain I was looking for. I appreciate your help. By the way - your house looks absolutely beautiful. Love the flooring too.

The challenge for cabinetmakers isn't just the stain. It is mainly the wood species.

Flooring is coming in wide planks that use a veneer to allow that up to 11-12" width and the beautiful wood figuring it shows. Those planks are being produced in Denmark by Hakwood, in Malayasia and other SE Asian factories for DuChateau and Monarch Plank. Hurst Hardwood uses product from those producers also. The hardwood veneer top layer is 'European Oak', using some of the 300 oaks growing around the world. These varieties are paler, less yellow and have much tighter, less open grain than our red and white oak. They don't turn yellow from oxidation after 5 years like our red and white oak. Nobody is using North American white oak for wide plank engineered flooring except a Canadian company. And they are now importing European Oak to produce a high-end product they need to compete and can call European Oak.

US Cabinetmakers using Conestoga and Walzcraft doors don't have an option for European Oak from those sources. They can get around the dark open grain visual problem everyone hates only by using rift/quarter cut NA oak. But it's still more yellow and it'll get yellower in 5 years from oxidation. Ikea makes Vedhamn solid European Oak cabinets in Hungary. Hallmark Homes has Link. a new line of European Oak. SieMatic’s URBAN collection, SG6 is a new source. Spanish cabinetmaker DOCA has the Classical line. There are other European cabinetmakers for certain, if you search. You can ask your cabinetmaker to buy French/English oak, Quercus Robur, plywood and lumber to make your cabinets. It'll be like using an imported wood like mahogany, more expensive for you. You can use that wood flat cut for a more figured design. You can finish it less yellow, and it'll stay more that way

Hallmark Home.

No matter where you are USA........getting the look takes a little work

Whether Minwax, or Zar Stain, (and Ben Moore carries both) you need plenty of scraps of the oak being use by the cabinet maker, a trip to Ben Moore...and a couple hours of wipe, try again. !!

You and the cabinet guy, are the only two who have the actual material. Rift or other.