Yes, have to agree, Iceberg has terrible foliage, even here in fairly dry East Anglia. It is a very floriferous rose, with a long cycle of bloom but not a rose. I would choose if I had a no spray regime...and,as I am fundamentally idle and forgetful, I grow Iceberg in a fairly wild bit of the allotment where its blooms do shine out of the general mass of weedyish shrubs and grasses. I rarely get to see much of the leaves at all. Not really certain I would grow it in an exposed spot even if the foliage was wonderful because it also has a spindly and awkward architecture...but again, fine in with generous cover and rampaging perennials (weeds).

It blooms well and I like it very much but I guarantee it was black spot that defoliated it. Give it a bit of fertilizer if you haven’t done so and water well, and start spraying regularly if planning on keeping her.

You indicate you don’t think it was blackspot.

Is the ground underneath your Iceberg littered with blackspotted leaflets?

You believe you ”need to get out there and in the trenches”. Have you been out there recently (much less in the trenches)?

You say you are ”having issues” - by that, do you mean ”having problems”?

And if so: personal health problems, problems with roses, or other problems?

If there is no leaf litter underneath, another person may have purposefully defoliated the rose and carted away the litter.

A good pair of binoculars can help answer some some questions, if you don’t have a gardener or other person on whose reports you can rely.

Could it possibly be rabbits? How tall a rose is it? I had rabbits devour the bottom 2ft of most of my rose canes last year. For some reason, this year, they have only eaten some of one particular small rose. I found it SO surprising, with all those thorns, that they would choose those to eat.

I'm in MA right next to CT and see the same weather forecasts in CT that I have. I have not had one unhappy leaf on a rose this year. The foliage right now looks pristine. Of course, I don't have Iceberg, but I did have it once and it lasted a season before I threw it out. It had bad foliage issues. One of the reasons I changed my priorities when I buy a rose and I look for the best Disease Resistance before I look for anything else.

It's not too early for blackspot, not this year -- I've already seen evidence of it trying to take hold on one of my Austins. It is early for it to defoliate the bush, though.

Iceberg is my favorite rose, for sentimental reasons, and I love the scent. But it is a blackspot magnet, I finally had to shovel prune the one I had at this house, almost completely defoliated by BS.

I found Iceberg didn’t have to have much black spot at all to defoliate, the odd spot and poof! A leafless rose. It didn’t rebloom for me either and have heard the same from other growers. This was the climbing version, not the shrub. I believe the shrub is better.

What a shame it is not healthier, before mine succumbed to blackspot it was gorgeous. The whtie is SO white. and it was covered with flowers initially. I still haven't found a white I'm happy with that has the disease resistance and the fragrance. I tried Pope John Paul and that was nice, but not vigorous and then it had foliage issues and out it went too.

A lot of roses were bred when we used a load of chemical sprays and lived in environmental pollution from coal fired, industrial and domestic use. When we all changed to smokeless fuels and electrics, the loss of sulphur in the atmosphere revealed the general malaise of a lot of roses. It has only been the during the last 3 decades that health has been prioritised over beauty...and there has always been a bit of a trade-off between fragrance and robust vigour. Now many of us prefer a no-spray regime, breeders are finally trialling roses which have greater innate health.

Well, this is all very disappointing. I chose Iceberg because I have more shade than sun and I read rave reviews about it's performance in part shade, as well as about how beautiful it is. I guess I didn't fully do my homework - which is odd for me. I usually suffer from analysis paralysis lol.

So yesterday, in between trying to save a sick possum for six hours, I did have a chance to get out and take a closer look at my Iceberg. The few remaining leaves looked okay, and there was very little leaf litter on the ground - strangely, I thought. Certainly not enough to account for all the leaves it lost.

But the leaf litter did have some blackspot spots on them. Not completely covered, but a few spots, which I guess speaks to NollieSpain's post. I'm just so surprised. My Zephrine Drouins are absolute blackspot magnets but even they have the decency to wait until July or so, after they bloom, to defoliate. In my limited rose experience I've never seen blackspot so early.

Alrighty then, guess it's back to the drawing board to find another rose. Thank you all for your input! As always, I appreciate it!

:)

Dee

Rugosa roses are practically immune to blackspot. Might not be the "rose-y" look you're going for, but they're fantastic landscape shrubs, and highly fragrant with great winter interest from the heavily thorned stems. The only caveat is there are many hybrids with non-rugosa genes -- the less rugose the leaves, the more susceptible it is to blackspot.

Rugosas aren't fond of shade IME.

Dee, are you looking for a white rose? I've had trouble finding good whites

Dee, try this....

Palatine Roses - Very Healthy Varieties

On the page there are further filters that you can look for fragrance and color etc.

I also tend to over analysis. And with roses, it was not easy. But I found the easiest way was to ignore all the other variables until you have a list of all the roses that are healthy. And then see if they have one that fits all your other criteria. Sometimes you have to compromise a little.

How much shade are you planning to put the rose in?

'Iceberg' is possibly the worst rose of all for Blackspot. I wouldn't have it in my garden for love nor money.

MG I wasn't necessarily looking for a white rose, but I wouldn't mind having one, and I think they would pop more in the partial shade than out in the sunny sections. I like to reserve my sun for my very favorite colors - pinks, purples, apricots.

I'm am however open to having different color roses. As a matter of fact (not necessarily for this spot but in general) I really don't care for red roses but thinking I should have at least one, since they are classic. So every once in a while I peruse reds. But my budget constraints (and limited sun lol) always make the pinks and apricots win out!

The area gets sun from about sunrise to noon, maybe 1pm, I'd say, depending on what time in the season, so at least a good 5 hours.

I guess the search continues. And here I was so proud of myself that I actually made a decision haha! But guess it was the wrong decision so back to the drawing board!

:)

Dee

"Rugosas aren't fond of shade IME."

Rugosas do just fine in part shade for me.

How much space do you have? Because although I have also found it difficult to find good smaller whites, there are a few larger shrub rose contenders which, while not totally pristine, have enough foliage and general robust branching, to mitigate a few losses of less than perfect leaves and will also accept a degree of shade or a north wall. They do tend to grow larger than the average hybrid tea or floribunda. My absolute top pick, for a repeat flowering rose, would be the hybrid musk 'Moonlight'. Yep, it will grow large but will shrug off severe pruning to stay within a mannerly 2m x 2m. If you can get your hands on any of the Poulsen roses, they are generally quite robust and healthy...although ymmv, obvs. When it comes to larger climbers/ramblers, your options are much greater.

Come to think of it, I have two roses that are clean and vigorous - New Dawn and Penelope. Never had one leaf that had any disease on it and pests did not bother it either. I grew them in a fence in between 5-6hrs of sun. They bloom once a season. I didn't really want something that bloomed once a season so I don't remember how I ended up with them but so glad I did...they have been very enjoyable and low care. New Dawn is a climber that needed the support of my 4ft high fence. Lots of other supports you could give it. Penelope can really just be a large shrub rose. Both are fragrant. Both are more or less a cream color. Penelope has a light apricot tint to it and New Dawn a light pink in the center when they first open.

Darlows enigma and cloud 10 have pristine foliage. cloud 10 is supposed to be a climber but it has never climbed for me. Dr. Robert Korns (aptos) blooms slightly blush with overall white effect and it is supposed to do well in part shade. Guirlande d’Amour is pure white and pretty healhty (no idea about shade tolerance with this one)

If you want something smaller, "Gourmet Popcorn" is outstanding. It got around 2.5' x 2.5' for me and grew quite happily in part shade at my other house, smothered in fragrant small white blooms at first flush with light rebloom. Never any foliage problems. I have a small root division growing at this house that's steadily putting on size every year, in part shade and healthy and happy here, too.

Thank you all for your suggestions! I just skimmed now (have to get back outside while I have some garden time!) but I will check them out more thoroughly later. Two quick things - I LOVE New Dawn but have seen it live and in person and it gets to be quite the monster! I wonder if it stays smaller in part shade...??

Also, lol, I just remembered I HAVE a Darlow's Enigma! It's actually on the north side of my house in a sorely, sorely, SORELY neglected garden - and it's about the only thing surviving amongst the bittersweet and wild raspberry(?) and other weeds (or should I call them rampaging perennials as rosa does lol?) I do think however I would like something smaller and better behaved for this spot, so I appreciate the suggestions and will look into them.

Thanks!

:)

Dee

PNW checking in. We have an Iceberg rose, only had it a few years, so still establishing. Haven't noted a bad black spot issue. We also have a Darlow's Enigma. It wants to be rather big, ours is easily ten feet tall. I don't know how it would behave/like if pruned to be smaller, but it is good in shade and has small, abundant white flowers. It's fragrant though not very noticeable close up. But when walking by 10 feet away you get hit with a lovely scent.

If you go with mxk3’s hybrid rugosa suggestion, and prefer white, get Moses’ recommendations. They do fine for me in 4.5-5 hours of sun, max, per day.

So, for an almost continual, mannerly bloomer - easily available - I have to give a thumbs up for White Meidiland. Classed as a ground coverer, the limber canes can be chopped, trained and arranged to suit the confines of most spaces. A landscape classic, with generally good health - whites can be tricky apart from all those gigantic ramblers which never seem to suffer from anything...but will cover a house in a season.

I actually grew White Meidland and that was another blackspot disaster for me. Sorry.

Eh, dumb Houzz. My latest post never appeared. Anyway, just wanted to thank everyone for the recommendations - and keep them coming if you've got more! I'm always open to ideas and suggestions - there are always so many more plants than you think there are!

In the meantime, would my Iceberg be helped by moving it into more sun? Would that make any difference? I hate to shovel prune just yet as I've only had the darn thing for 9 months. I feel like I at least have to pretend to try haha!

:)

Dee

Dee, I am no rose expert and especially about blackspot, but what I did with David Austin's 'Golden Celebration' that also had foliage issues for me, was after the first flush of blooms, I cut it right back to the ground! I know, Yikes....lol. It's hot that time of year and I'm sure pretty abusive to a rose. But I couldn't stand looking at the foilage and I did it with the understanding that it might not come back. It did come back and I lived with it for 4 years that way before it dwindled in vitality.

Each spring it would flush out with new foliage and manage to make it through it's first flush of bloom and as soon as it looked ratty, I would cut it back.

I don't know the answer to your question about moving it into more sun, but, wouldn't it be more important to move it into better air circulation, would be my question?

Ah, Iceberg has airy, tall and even a bit spindly growth...and as such, can easily be hidden by growing some tallish, robust perennials such as penstemons, campanulas, centranthus, eryngiums, astrantias, angelicas, eupatorium (dunno what name this is using now) ...or, that other favourite combo, one of the less rampant clematis - the integrifolias are an interesting group, along with viticellas. Basically, disguise and camouflage as I am not really hopeful that moving into a sunnier spot would make a great deal of difference - blackspot susceptibility is rather innate to Iceberg;s genetics...but has always been overlooked because with a spray regime, Iceberg is a very beautiful rose, with a long and late bloom period (often still in flower at Xmas for me).

And for another white suggestion - Kordes roses have prioritised health before many breeders got in on the act...so maybe have a look at Earth Angel. There is nearly always a trade-off - fragrance or health...but Earth Angel manages to combine both. Also, Innocencia/ County of Yorkshire.

I could never keep White Meidiland and Alba Meidiland straight. One was a decent landscaping rose around here. I'd see it planted with The Fairy. The other wasn't.

If you can handle big, there is always Seafoam. I love the parentage of it.

[(White Dawn x Pinocchio) x (White Dawn x Pinocchio)] x (White Dawn x Pinocchio)

I think you can keep it to four or five feet with serious pruning.

Moving a marginally healthy rose to more sun can help. Iceberg isn't marginal.

I have a rose....it's a buck rose which is a series that is known for hardiness and health. This one is 'Prairie Sunrise' and not only is it very healthy but, the flowers are big and fragrant. I have it growing in some afternoon shade. I'm not sure exactly how much sun it gets, but it is performing well.

Here is a photo of it right now, and it's in shade.....

It's in front of an Itea that is against the house facing East and it's actually doing quite a bit of leaning over this rose this year.

I had no idea Iceburg roses had so many problems in some areas. I have two that are somewhat neglected, being in a hard to reach place, and they flower nicely without any foliage problems….. not that I’ve noticed, anyhow. Is it my low humidity?

Meidiland roses used to be widely available about 20 years ago, but now like finding a needle in a haystack locally. I agree they are terrific landscape roses.

"Is it my low humidity?"

Probably. Consider yourself fortunate -- blackspot is the bane of rose growers.