Here is my perfect rose: BS resistant in hot and humid climate, English style, fragrant, bush shape 4x4, constantly blooming and long-lasting bloom.

Any suggestions?

None. The following come close: Belinda's Dream (pink), Cramoisi Superieur (red), Ducher (white), Duchesse de Brabant (pink), Poseidon (mauve), Reve d'Or (buff yellow). Quietness (pink) is showing promise but it is only one year old. Also, Earth Angel (blush white) and Star of the Republic (apricot), but the repeat bloom may not be up to your standards. I have heard good things about Bordeaux cityscape (red) and it is on order for fall delivery. Of course, none of these are as resistant as Double Knock Out (red) which is completely clean no-spray here in black spot hell (Zone 7b) but you asked for fragrance and English style.

Patrick, thank you for the list! I have Poseidon and and Earth Angel.

They are very good BS resistant, but not long lasting blooms and Earth Angel often balling for me.

This is what "my friend" suggested:

• 'Knock Out' Series: These roses are known for their excellent disease resistance, including black spot. They thrive in hot and humid climates, offer a bushy growth habit, and produce continuous blooms throughout the season. While they may not have the traditional full bloom of English roses, they are reliable and low-maintenance.
• 'Julia Child': This floribunda rose is known for its buttery yellow blooms, strong anise fragrance, and excellent disease resistance. It’s a compact bush that typically grows around 3-4 feet tall and wide and blooms consistently.
• 'Belinda's Dream': This rose is well-regarded for its disease resistance, including black spot, and performs well in hot, humid climates. It produces large, pink, fragrant blooms and has a bushy growth habit, making it a suitable choice for your requirements.
• 'Earth Song': A grandiflora rose known for its vivid pink blooms, it offers a strong fragrance and blooms repeatedly. It's quite hardy and performs well in various climates, including hot and humid conditions.
• 'Beverly': This hybrid tea rose is not only beautiful but also highly disease resistant. It thrives in humid climates, has a lovely fragrance, and provides full, long-lasting blooms.

A word about Star of the Republic. By August, it defoliated from BS the first two years. This year it has shown good resistance and 2/3 foliated. Balling goes hand-in-hand with the globular flower formation. I find with full sun and enough summer heat Earth Angel will open up. USDA Zone 6 is actually worse than 7 for black spot.

Most of the Knockout series are lacking in fragrance. The best you can expect is a slight, cinnamon-like scent.

JULIA CHILD is truly lovely and one of my favorites (my profile pic is JC) but defoliates from BS no-spray by late July. It also has wicked thorns.

BELINDA'S DREAM is truly lovely and will provide you with armloads of cut flowers. The form is spectacular and will satisfy even the most jaded English rose junkie. Blooms start out high centered then open quartered so you get the best of both worlds. I gave one to my MIL because she wanted a low-care cut flower rose. When I grew it, I got flowers that would last a week in a vase provided I recut the stems under water and conditioned the vase water. Fragrance strength is no greater than medium but at least it is there and consistent. Faults include cane dieback and it is borderline hardy in 6a. It is Earthkind but still benefits from organic sprays in the Mid-Atlantic. My MIL uses an organic spray she gets at her local garden center and the foliage is mostly clean.

Large flower size with complex/tight form, fragrance, long vase life, repeat bloom, vigor, and BS resistance is next to impossible to breed all into roses. Also, flowers with more petals than 20-30 faces balling. More petals, more likely to ball. More round the bloom, also more likely to ball. To correct, breed in substance (thicker/stiffer petals). The greater the substance, the less the fragrance but you get longer vase life as a bonus. Inevitably something gets sacrificed.

Patrick, I told AI, that the answer I am getting are not accurate and got the corrected result.

Have feeling that AI is reading us also!:) I love Sweet Mademoiselle, but she is not BS free for me.

• 'Earth Angel': This rose is known for its very full, large blooms with a strong fragrance. It is a reliable bloomer and shows good disease resistance.
• 'Poseidon': This rose has a full bloom with a lavender color, known for being highly disease-resistant and having a pleasant fragrance. It thrives in humid climates.
• 'Sweet Mademoiselle': Featuring a very full bloom, this rose is renowned for its exceptional fragrance and disease resistance, making it suitable for hot, humid conditions.

I was out deadheading last night and when I got to Marc Chigal I marveled at the pretty bush

shape and clean leaves. It is just a really attactive bush with fragrant blooms that are beautiful and last a long time

You have expressed my thoughts excellently! All I can add is that I wish the Austin roses did better here. They are black spotty, mostly weak necked, and drop their petals too quickly. The old garden rose bloom form with quartered centers is getting monotonous to me.

I still prefer the classic hybrid tea form blooms with high centers, straight and stiff necks, and petals that spiral out from a pin hole center. Also, if the petals quill as the bloom proceeds to fully open the petal count must be high in order to maintain a high center. I don't like hybrid teas that quill with a low petal count bloom when fully open. Looks like those cheap, stick on gift bows that come 12 to a bag at holiday times, used for attaching to cheap giftsgifts.

My ideal rose bloom must be beautiful from bud showing color, to fully open, just before petal drop.

Moses

I'm about the opposite of Moses! I have never tired of the quartered old rose form (after maybe 35 years), and really don't like the high centered hybrid teas! It's true that the petals of the Austins tend to drop rather quickly, but I love the flowers that nod a little. We don't get black spot, mildew, or rust here for the most part, so I don't have to worry about that. But I also don't like blooms that quill.

In my climate, first of all it must be a rose that wants to grow (so many do not here) and wants to bloom. Without those, there's no point.

Then there is fragrance (a delicious fruity with a bit of bourbon or sandalwood would be nice), color (I love what I call "apricot sunset" colors), form (cupped blooms are what I want), bush habit (bushy, not a thorny stick), doesn't fry in our intense sunlight, size of blooms (I don't like either tiny or huge flowers), size of bush (I prefer something in the 4-6 foot range). I want a rose to have good green leaves, and would appreciate good winter appearance and hips.

My ideal rose is pretty much Abraham Darby. I keep searching for something better, but after many years, I haven't found anything yet. There are others that are pretty good. Dee-lish is a non-Austin that is pretty good. Boscobel, Bishop's Castle, Alnwick Castle, Bolero, Desdemona, are all great roses here.

But as the closest to perfect for me is always Abe. Now that I've figured out his quirky needs, he grows, and blooms. The flowers have a luscious fruit fragrance, and the color variations of pink to salmon to apricot with pale blush pink outer petals are exactly what I love. He's not perfect though. Blooms tend to show damage early in the season (thrips?), he doesn't produce colorful hips, and the thorns are wicked. His leaves are perhaps not as rich green as I would like. But still the closest.

I have to laugh when I see postings of how knockouts are black spot resistant. They are planted everywhere in Florida. Also, you walk into Lowes, W mart, or H Depot there are rows upon rows of knockouts. I see lots of black spot both in the store container roses and out in the community where they are planted and probably aren't spraying them. Restaurants, banks, walmart parking lots, Dr's offices buildings etc. I think many of the old garden roses are more resistant than the Knockouts.

The perfect rose varies by climate.

Once upon a time I planted a hedge of Belinda's Dream in my former garden in Cupertino (SF Bay area). It had serious powdery mildew - not just a bit of white powder, but full-on ugly, disfigured foliage. I replaced it with a hedge of the polyantha Perle d'Or. Perle d'Or had its own problem in that it was a thorny beast and wanted to be 7 feet tall by 8 feet wide. That was not at all what I was expecting, or what descriptions said. However for the most part it was reasonably healthy, a touch of PM now and then but never a serious disfigurement.

Standards for the perfect rose will vary from one gardener to the next, both because conditions vary from garden to garden, and because of different ideas of what's beautiful. Even ideas about rose scents will vary, because some rose fragrances, like Tea, aren't perceptible to all gardeners, while others, such as myrrh, are lovely to some and disgusting to others.

In my case I don't care about hardiness, because my garden has dipped below zone 8 temperatures only once in the twenty-two years I've been here: my Lady Banks roses were badly damaged that time, one frozen to the ground, but they all recovered. That's the only damage from cold weather I've ever experienced.

I don't care much about rebloom, either. For a rose to rebloom it has to have water; we have long periods of drought here, and I don't water after the first year or so, so even reflowering roses often don't. I do love roses that make a splendid show once a year, like many of the ramblers, and the once-flowering old roses. They're part of the seasonality of the garden, plants making their beautiful new growth, blooming, then continuing by ripening any hips and, sometimes, finishing with fall color and then a quiet winter with bare stems. The cycle in all its parts is important. If the roses are reblooming, sending out growth for the new flush is a delight. In any case, summers are so hot here that I don't get out much in the big garden, so I don't see the roses anyway.

I do value beauty of foliage and habit, but my notions of what's beautiful may not be like another gardener's. I love the glossy dark foliage of 'Alberic Barbier', for example, the rough spoon-shaped leaves of many Gallicas, the elegant clean leaves of the Teas. I like variety, of leaves, canes, prickles, habit. I like the way buds smell: there are many different scents. Some plants have beautiful hips, like the soft pink-orange clusters of 'Dupontii', or the top-shaped glossy ones of R. gallica 'Splendens' (which also has glaucous purple new growth and orange-red-yellow fall color, at least if it's growing by--in--a drainage ditch).

I perfectly well get that many people don't have gardens capable of hosting huge climbers and ramblers, but it's a satisfaction to see 'Brenda Colvin' draped over multiple trees and reaching for the heavens. My perfect rose will naturally be able to grow in my soil. It's mostly alkaline gray clay, ruling out most roses with Multiflora ancestry, including, unfortunately, the Pemberton Hybrid Musks; and Teas except in a few spots around the house. Most roses that grow here are tough and frugal varieties, no Hybrid Teas or--I regret this--English Roses.

I can't say there's one perfect rose: no one rose would ever be enough for me, as there are so many kinds of beauty in roses. I manage to grow a fair variety. My favorites include a crowd of once-blooming old roses, particularly those close to the Gallicas, and I have a soft spot for Hybrid Damasks. Teas, where I can grow them; Wichuriana ramblers, especially the Barbier and Van Fleet varieties. But there are others, too many to name.

I appreciate the opening essay and Melissa's contrasting celebration of once-blooming roses. I have no quibble with either set of qualifications and we're all striving for some version of ideal in our gardens. You might add whether the rose has compact vs. exuberant growth, given that some folks have small gardens and need restrained beauty (like Bolero).

I would propose that Belinda's Dream is hardy to well into zone 4 given enough water. All my colleagues in the Nebraska rose society propose this as a rose that is trouble free and nearly ideal for them, and mine survived about 10 years in a virtual zone 4 part of my yard that got wicked winter winds. It wasn't cane hardy most years, but it survived and bloomed. It's obviously happier in a warmer spot though.

The only criterion I differ on is fragrance, because I personally can't smell 90% of supposedly fragrant roses. I celebrate the ones I can smell (like Sydonie, Sharifa Asma, Maggie), but don't select for it.

Here are some others that I'd say meet most of your criteria and are virtually nonstop bloomers in many zones:

- Bonica, Grandmother's Hat, Sweet Fragrance, Bliss Parfuma, Edgar Degas, Bad Worishofen, Dame des Chenonceau, Cinderella Fairy Tale, Lion's Fairy Tale, Florentina

I'd add Darlow's Enigma but the thorns on that one are legendary so it can't fit.

Cynthia

The perfect rose depends on SUITABLITY with one's soil and climate. My soil is heavy clay & zone 5 with high-rain plus seven 50-gallon rain-barrels. I got a rooting of Abraham Darby from Noseometer and it was a non-stop bloomer in FAST-DRAINING fluffy potting soil, plus I topped it constantly with Garden Lime to neutralize the acidic rain here.

The minute I planted Noseometer's Abraham Darby in my soaking wet heavy clay (sticky magnesium), it went downhill with blackspots and sawfly. I spent 2 hours digging that hole for fast drainage but Abraham's roots hate my sticky clay. Abraham Darby barely survived my zone 5 winter. Rabbits here love to eat Abe. down to 4 inch in spring. I have to cage Abe. with chicken wire, see Abe. below:

In contrast, Evelyn (a rain-hog) LOVES my high rain climate and soaking wet clay. Evelyn is the HEALTHIEST rose among my 160 fragrant own root roses, along with Kordes roses. Never see blackspots, rust, mildew, RMV, nor proliferation in my open-stamen Evelyn. Below pic. is my 12th-year own root Evelyn this spring 2024:

Below pics. was taken July 24 with Evelyn's 2nd flush. Note Evelyn's perfect leaves in hot & humid July:

Below pic. was taken mid-August at 80% humidity, at the start of Evelyn's 3rd flush: Note 100% healthy leaves with fast repeat, after I pruned it down to 1 foot this August 2024:

Evelyn's scent is wonderful old rose and sweet peaches as stated in David Austin handbook, a few blooms can perfume the entire room.

In contrast, Abraham Darby reeks of SHARP grapefruit and rotten melon in my heavy clay, and I rarely cut Abraham Darby for the vase: doesn't last long in the vase like Evelyn, and Abe. stinks up in the vase. I'm addicted to Evelyn's old rose and sweet peaches scent and I can stick my nose into Evelyn's blooms 24/7.

For beauty of bloom: Evelyn beats Abraham Darby with more petals (100 petals as stated in David Austin's handbook, versus 70 petals with Abraham Darby). Below pic. was Evelyn's first bloom in 2012 at near 100 F heat, both rabbits and deer don't eat Evelyn (thick and bitter leaves):

Below is Evelyn in cooler temp, still retain its 100 petals and old rose/sweet peaches scent:

No blooms can be as big as Evelyn. Behind orange is Sweet Mademoiselle and beige is Princess Charlene de Monaco, both lose out to Evelyn in bloom size. I like Evelyn's sweet peaches & old rose more than Princess Charlene de Monaco pear-nectar scent.

Abraham beats Evelyn in drought-tolerance: I never water Abraham Darby, but I have to water Evelyn (a rain-hog). Below is Abraham Darby bloom: it's wimpy as own root in my heavy clay, zone 5 with less petals at 70, note blackspots and sawfly damage in Abraham Darby with more thorns than Evelyn:

Below is 12th-year-own root Evelyn with 100 petals, to compare with above Abraham Darby: Below Evelyn has better scent and more petals:

CONCLUSION: Evelyn is the perfect OWN ROOT rose for my high-rain climate & zone 5 with heavy & soaking wet clay infested with rabbits. Evelyn and Kordes are perfect own root roses for my clay & zone 5 since rabbits don't eat them (except for stingy Kiss me Kate).

I killed my Knock-out and Belinda Dream since they cannot measure up to Evelyn in beauty and scent. Version #1 Evelyn (open stamens as pictured in below David Austin 2011 handbook) is very healthy in my heavy clay. Evelyn helps me to lose weight by sniffing it: like a sweet Danish pastry with peaches jam. The old rose note shows more with acidic rain. Click on below picture to enlarge:

The perfect rose for me will be one that is can handle lots of rain OR lots of tap water...so that the pH doesn't matter. It also must have a great fragrance and bloom a lot. The bloom shape doesn't matter as much. I do hate floppy canes or weak necks. :)

Carruth's Perfume Factory hits all of those notes. :)

Kristine - I do sooo love the look of your Marc Chagall!! What a bloomer!!

Noseometer - GASP!! Your Abe as a bush is incredible!!!

Straw - SWOON!!!! Your Evelyn is exquisite!!! I especially love the last 6 pictures...including that heavenly pastel bouquet!!

rosecanadian Thank you for the recommendation of Perfume Factory (I love purple roses) and thank you, nippstress - zone 5 Nebraska for the recommendation of high-scented Sydonie and Maggie (I give up on Sharifa Asma ... so wimpy as own root and died after 10 years in my zone 5).

The best OWN ROOT roses for my heavy clay & high rain have SUPER VIGOROUS root like Evelyn or Princess Charlene de Monaco or Dee-lish ... all 3 can take week-long rain, but Evelyn has the fastest growth and fastest repeat, with Dee-lish as the runner up in health & beauty due to lesser scent (like sour guava fruit mixed with old rose). Below is Dee-lish spring flush in my zone 5 garden:

Holy moley, Straw...your Dee-Lish is exceptional!!! SWOON!!!!!

I agree with Melissa: no one rose would be enough. Each one has its own qualities that others do not. For example, one rose cannot have the different fragrances of the different roses.

One thing that has happened in my 58 years of life are my flower form preferences have evolved. I started growing roses in my teens and fell absolutely in love with them to the point of obsession. Back then it was all about the mid-century Hybrid Teas, Floribundas, and Grandifloras, which was all we had. But I was always disappointed by the high centered form that was so striking in bud with its sculptured perfection only to open into formless blossoms. I liked the Floribundas even less because to my eye their rosette flower form looked "messy".

Then along came David Austin and my obsession went into high gear. His roses looked best fully open, but were and continue to be hard to grow in the United States, not to mention their aggravating business practices. During this time I learned about the OGRs. Bourbons, Hybrid Perpetuals were with a few exceptions black spot disasters. Once bloomers never interested me. I just feel limited by them. But when I saw CRAMOISI SUPERIEUR (red) and DUCHESSE DE BRABANT (pink) in a zone 8 garden - SWOON!

I got married. My husband actually prefers the loose, open rosette typical of so many Floribundas. He wants to see the stamens in the center. I saw Rosa rugosa alba in full bloom being grown as a security hedge in a Cleveland Park garden, and it was a revelation. Each bloom just five petals. HUGE, pure white, deliciously scented. Terrifying thorns but those single blooms were beautiful! Saw a spectacular specimen of FOURTH OF JULY being grown as a shrub. Blew me away! Saw a single, purple rugosa with chocolate colored canes (i think it was Basye's Purple Rose) growing on the border of a beach in Delaware.

Now, my eyes are open. I like all flower forms from the chic simplicity of a single to the full voluptuousness of a quartered flower ala the Centifolias. I look at my garden as an Impressionist painting and the roses and companion plants are the pigments. To all the younger rosarians reading this essay, FREE YOUR MINDS! Diversity is the spice of life. Getting stuck on a specific class, growth habit and/or flower form limits you as a rose gardener. Taking my own advice, I am open to thinking more positively about the once bloomers. If I lived in Vermont or Maine you can bet they would be serious considerations.

Those are my thoughts on this rainy Saturday.

Patrick, my my new obsession is the singles. I am on the waitlist for a couple at Heirloom.

Which ones, Kristine? I love how the bees have access to the pollen from the single blooms. :)