Now that I don’t have kids in school, it’s hard to keep up with when school starts. ”Back in the day” the local papers would have back-to-school stories, with what changes were made to buildings, or pictures of classrooms being readied, kids shoe-shopping, etc. No more. I saw the bus practicing its run. Our district fb page did have a “school’s back!” on the first day. We are kind of on the ”in-between” block so we don’t see kids walking to school.

What I do see are the school supply aisles at Target.

One year, a few schools were doing construction over the summer so to be sure everything was ready, the start of school was delayed to the day after Labor Day. We had several teachers on our block and they loved it. ”As God intended!” they said lol. But now there is this push to end school by Memorial Day (why?) and have high school exams before the winter holiday (my question, why the exams at all? There are many ways to determine mid-year progress.) So, they start in August.

I first started hearing about year-round school when I was still in grade-school, and I thought it was a good concept. It would, however, change a lot of other things, like summer camps, vacation spots, park districts, but hey, things can adapt.

We would stay on the beach until Labor Day. My kids wore whatever appropriate clothes they already had and back to school purchases were made after school began. We liked the beach better than shopping. Im sure they had sand in their shoes. I did take pictures every year until they objected.

We never began school until after Labor Day. My niece in North Carolina has been in 9th grade classes for 2 1/2 weeks now.

My BIL and his family would move to their lake house for summer and he would commute to work. Labor Day they'd have one last swimming/BBQ gorgeous weekend then button up the prop, take the boat out of the water, get ready for the year. Then it became back to school a week earlier only to be faced with a three day weekend holiday where they'd be half in, half out of their summer residence. Oh, how angry he'd be every year 😊 And that was a private school but one that kept all the same dates, breaks, vacations as our local public schools.

Many schools now start earlier due to competition with other districts! When we lived in CA, some schools moved the start date earlier to allow a couple of extra weeks for students to prepare for AP exams. Our district felt it put their students at a disadvantage and gradually moved the start date up 2 weeks over a couple of years. Most parents were annoyed at first, but it got approved and everyone adapted.

“I think the school year should be Labor Day to Memorial Day and skip all the dumb breaks. Just get it done!!”

The “just get it done” part sounds like the grumblings of an unhappy teacher ready to retire. Which is understandable considering how hard teachers work. But still, kids know which teachers have already packed it in mentally.

I hope my daughter's school where she teaches and my grandkids' schools they attend never go to all year school. The best memories of childhood were summers. The best feeling was leaving school on the last day. We are free! I can't imagine kids not having that.

As a working mom, I would have hated not having the slower pace of summer without homework or projects due.

And also, being the mother of a 3rd grade teacher in the inner city teaching 100% under privileged kids, I know that she is totally burned out by June and needs the summer off to recharge. Shorter vacations throughout the year are not going to do that.

JSK, thank goodness for people like your daughter!

Thank you jojo. I agree. She is literally changing lives and it just makes me so happy and proud.

Happy2b, your post is so sweet. :)

I remember this picture going viral a few years ago, it reminds me so much of my DD’s early elementary years:

The first day of school in my area was last Thursday.

Oh, Jilly, it was the socks that made me laugh out loud. The socks didn't make it through the first day. She must have been incredibly glad to see her friends again and playing hard 😊

My three grands in different states started the same day and I am so glad. They all three spent the summer face planted into the ipad or gaming computer.. I am thrilled to see them back in school.

I am all for all year around school. I belive in investing in educating our children, no matter who their parents are or where they came from , or how. All year long and offer extra curricular experiences in between the pure academics. It is high time for the old agrarian model to be abandoned. Our kids deserve better. All kids deserve better.

Now many years out from the back to school routines of buying new clothes, shoes, uniforms and school sipplies, I still think of September as the ”real” start of the year. I grew up having the whole summer off and spending it at summer camp in a cooler climate, and we brought our children up doing the same. It was a great change of pace when time was spent mostly outside learning sport, arts and crafts, nature lore, water safety. When our kids went to college I was shocked that they were expected to be there the third week of August— when we were usually headed for the lake for our last few weeks of vacation. I realize times have changed and schedules must change with the times, but I don’t see kids learning those practical skills and spending more time outside now that school dominates the calendar, and I think it is a loss. I agree they are on their screens too long when left to their own devices, but increasingly they’re on screens at school, too.

Preschool for my grandson here in my town started last week, but preschool for my grandson who lives 2.5 hours from here started today. Their first day of school pictures are so charming; one of them looks so much like his daddy - my son - that it makes me tearful. 🥲

I’m too much of a fan of summer and summer camp to be in favor of year round school. I think the long summer break is important. I realize that I come from a place of priviledge. My kids didn’t experience the ”summer slide” and we had no childcare issues.

I don’t love that they start back in early to mid August, but I do like that 1st semester and exams are finished by winter break. A new semester starts fresh with the new year. We have spring break the first full week of April and end the school year before Memorial Day.

I agree with you 100% kswl.

The solution is not to have kids in school 12 months a year. It's to solve the problem of parents having to work too much to support the family and not being able to spend more time with their kids.

Summers are for resting, running, swimming and playing. And yes reading, and maybe some extra school if kids need that to catch up. But please do not take away the biggest joy of childhood.

I also agree that kids today spend too much time on their devices. But all year school is not the solution to that.

but, kswl, young kids have to depend on the parents to pay for and to arrange these outdoor things for them. These activities may be miles from home. It is not like the kids can walk to somewhere right in the neighborhood to attend something like a Scout meeting or go out on their own for a hike or classes at the art center after school.

Many have two working parents and it is hard for them to take the kids to participate in anything if you have to be at work.

And, those outdoor camps are also very expensive . No matter how willing you are to spend money on educating children, the fact remains that many of these organized activities are out of reach for a whole summer for each kid.

When the oldest grandson was younger we used to buy him a week at outdoor camp. He came and stayed with us and we took him and picked him up. At that time the fee was around $500 for one week. Now, it is even higher.

If we had a school system that operated all year around maybe these kinds of thing could be incorporated into what is offered through the system. I think that a fuller year with the holidays as breaks is more likley to be able to provide these alternative experiences for them. Not all can take a vacation like you and yours did.

I think that spending part of the year learning practical skills and experieceing nature is a great thing. That is one of those things that could be offered to so many more kids if it were incorporated into a school year. It is just those non academic things that I am advocating, but not just for those who are privileged to have the parents with the resources to provide that..

Another benefit of having year round school and time off at different times of the year is that the weather is , generally , cooler. There is more to outdoor activities than those hot summer ones. Sometimes it is just too darned hot to enjoy ones self. I see visitors in DC in the summer and they look absolutely miserable!!!

Of course you have a good point Annie, but it’s very unlikely that schools will branch out into teaching more practical and hands-on skills. They don’t even teach what used to be called home economics or shop now. I can’t imagine them stretching their resources to expand the non-academic curriculum when so many kids can’t read or write at grade level. We largely kept our kids out of the public school system for various reasons, and one bonus was that start dates for private schools were always later.

The school district where my kids grew up and I taught has always opened the week before Labor Day. Over time the week teachers reported back stretched from one week prior to two. I always felt sad/cheated to start school prior to Labor Day. Maybe I felt that way because as a child, I headed back to school after Labor Day. Labor Day was a transition and official end of summer everywhere. Camps end; pools close.

Two of my grandkids attended school year round. It was an option in their shool district. They had about 4 weeks off in mid summer and several 3 weeks breaks throughout the year. They and their parents liked the schedule. They could still go to camp. There was plenty of opportunities to be busy during the shorter breaks. They could participate in the afterschool activites and teams at school. the local rec departments and private providers offered mini camps and enriching acitivites. Their parents enjoyed the benefit of being able to travel in the off season for both warm and cold climate vacations. Having breaks distributed throughout the year, offered time to refresh and de-stress from the daily school hustle and bustle.

Several of my grandkids are private school students. They start later and end earlier. They have a long summer.

I do not believe one school schedule is better than another. There are advantages and disadvantages to each. Ideally, parents and teachers would have choices which are offered in some school districts. Family circumstances and children's personalities are factors to consider. Mostly, I think people tend to adjust to what becomes normal for us.

Where I live now and my kids grew up there are camps that are affordable for more people. I sent my daughter to a very expensive day camp. She loved it. My son hated it. So my son attended town camps that he much preferred. And they were not at all expensive. I know that there will still be families where even that is a struggle. And yes I know that someone has to drop off and pick up. But that gets back to my point earlier about our society not prioritizing families and parents having to work so much just to support them.

I just think that year round school is not the right solution. And there's a teacher shortage. Summers off is a huge benefit for a lot of teachers.

" And there's a teacher shortage. "

This is true in most places. And usually for the same reason and with the same secondary effect. In the world of today, teacher pay is usually below market. The Best and Brightest, graduates with above average credentials and capabilities (compared to their peers), can choose to pursue other occupations offering better pay, benefits and career paths.

Often what's left, those with less accomplished records who've tried and failed or don't try to get one of the better, more competitive jobs, have less choice and many settle for lower paying jobs that are held in lower esteem by these job seekers. Many become teachers - there are openings, hiring is not that competitive a process because of the shortage. And they settle for lower pay and lower prospects. Warm bodies are encouraged to apply and get hired.

Stepping back - the intake of new teachers in too many systems is more a sampling of the lower ends of the bell curve of ability than would be desired if there were a greater choice.

To attract the more capable individuals into teaching roles, those who could raise standards and do much more with their pupils than the current ranks can manage, the simple answer is that pay needs to be increased substantially. That alone would attract better applicants.

In many other countries, teachers are paid at higher salary percentiles (relative to local economies) than here and as a result, more accomplished and capable newcomers get hired, again compared to here. The US relative position is shocking lower than one would expect in surveys ranking student capabilities by country. No wonder.

Of course, every teacher is different, but year round school does appeal to many educators. Here are several reasons why. Teachers do not get paid for the summer but have to budget their salary to carry them through the summer. Some districts allow educators the option to divide their salary to enable paychecks during the summer. However, having a payheck during the summer is not the prime motivater for teachers being interested in year round school. The traditional school year is typically divided into 4 terms of about 9 weeks each. Many teachers would love the opportunity to have 2-3 weeks break between terms to decompress (good for some kids too) to evaluate and reflect on the previous term, to plan for the upcoming term and to prepare materials for the new term. On the tradional schedule, it is roll roll roll, go go go.

Please let's not turn this little thread, which was meant to be joyful, into criticism of the teaching profession. I have first hand knowledge and experience as a professional educator. I have a lot to say on the subject of teacher shortage and teacher competence. If anyone wants to start that discussion in a different post, go ahead but not in this thread.

I wasn't the first one to mention teacher shortages in this thread. Someone else did and i responded to the comment.

I'm happy to start another thread, easy enough. I'll look forward to what others have to say.

Our schools don't start until the Weds after Labor Day. August is traditionally (before climate change) our best weather month, with September pretty spectacular, too, so I'm glad they don't go back earlier. I have helped raise my grandson because of his parents' work schedules, so I've volunteered, picked up, delivered to schools from preschool on. This year is his first year not in a small private school - he's going into the public high school as a freshman. There are no private high schools in our community (but a small Catholic one with only about 100 pupils) so it was the only choice for him or be bused 40 miles away. He was very apprehensive thinking about it last year, but now that it's approaching he's excited. He has a nice group of friends from his middle school who will attend with him, so that makes him happy. The middle school was for academically advanced students, so he's still worried a bit that the curriculum might not be challenging enough. We'll see.

But the fun thing is he's blossomed into quite a fashion conscious teen, with a very stylish haircut. So we've spent lots of time this summer online shopping for clothes for him. He keeps a wardrobe here for the days he spends the night here and goes to school from my house. I loved helping him put outfits together and learning what were the latest styles he likes. He's obsessed with his hair and wants a very particular style. I convinced him to let me give him a perm (former hairdresser here) and bought him the brushes and appliances needs to achieve it. Never in a million years would I have believed, after not doing hair for 45 years, that I'd be giving my nearly 15 year old grandson a perm! Hair and fashion have opened up a whole new avenue of conversation topics for us. Those, and cars. We both love cars and have a lot to talk about, since I grew up in the muscle car era, lol! He was recently building/designing a car in some Roblox game and asked for my help identifying a car part in the game (really?). I was able to figure out that it was a steering column manual shifter (which he's never seen). He was quite impressed with his grandma, lol.

Olychick, you have a lovely relationship with your grandchildren. My grandson is also entering freshman year of high school. Like your grandson, he is very cognizant of his hair and outfits. He has favorite products for hair and face as well. So far he has not asked for a permanent.

" I have first hand knowledge and experience as a professional educator. I have a lot to say on the subject of teacher shortage and teacher competence. If anyone wants to start that discussion in a different post, go ahead... "

OK, happy2b, I did that several hours ago as you suggested. Feel free to add your perspectives.

We need to have better funding for the schools our children go to. We need to invest in educating them on many levels.

Some non academic activities can still be very enriching and our kids need that, too. I dont mind paying taxes to support our schools, but, sadlly that does not seem to happen as planned.

Now some of our schools have become political footballs of how and what to teach . I dont have a lot of high hope for anything better.

It will all change regardless if we orchestrate the change, or it just evolves.

What is taught, how it is taught and where it is taught will all change.

FWIW, year-round school doesn't mean no vacations, just that vacations are more spread out throughout the year. Children have been shown to lose a lot of learning over the long summer breaks, in case anyone was not aware of that.

Teachers can suffer too, since they are unemployed and without pay for at least 10 weeks of the year. I recently saw something from a teacher who depends on the federal summer free breakfast & lunch programs for her kids to help get them through.

elmer, can you link the thread you started? I don't see it.

It's here. Ignore the minor sidetrack, someone decided to be very rude and I responded in a similar way but to no success, she didn't get it. I think it's mostly as I'd hoped with comments that were made.

Teacher shortages, how are schools doing?

Have to wonder - since when do 2 wrongs make a right?

Have to wonder - do you have a useful thought to add to the conversation that isn't an insult?

I love my memories of childhood summers, but I also recognize that the school year wasn't designed so that kids had the summer off, it was designed because the family needed the kids to help work the farm from planting to harvest. They also didn't see much reason for kids to go to school beyond the 8th grade and girls often didn't go to school at all or only for a few years.

When I was a kid most of the kids had stay at home moms, but now most moms need to work and it is hard to find a full time job other than teaching that will accommodate a 3 month summer vacation, so that means additional days needing to pay for child care or older kids going largely unsupervised. This may not be the best answer.

I think a lot of families would be better equipped to manage a week break every other month or two weeks every 4th month. Still provides the opportunity to take a family vacation.

" wasn't designed so that kids had the summer off, it was designed because the family needed the kids to help work the farm from planting to harvest. "

Really?

I'm not immediately convinced. If that's so, and maybe indeed it is, why have school systems in non-rural, non-farming areas followed the practice?

The school year was absolutely designed to support the agriculture economy. that most of America was based around. Farmers had large families and NEEDED the kids from planting to harvest. They couldn't afford to hire the help needed. If we held school summers many farm kids would never have been allowed to attend. It was a tough sell even then. The question today is if it's time to let that go, help parents and have year round school. Day care for working parents is a tough challenge. Summers off has NEVER benefitted learners. The summer brain drain is real. It would be much more consistent and successful for all if learning was year round, most educators will tell you.

When we moved from the city to a small, rural town, the school schedules were somewhat different than the city schedules - they started earlier and ended earlier because of the strawberry harvest. Kids were bused to fields to pick strawberries and it was a huge crop in many of western WA counties (and still is). But now the kids have been replaced by farmworkers. I wasn't sure if that change had affected the school schedule, but I just checked and the kids still went back to school before Labor Day, which is earlier than the city schools.

I was a working mom. I would most certainly not have like year round school. That would not have helped me at all. In fact, it would have made me miserable.

I think a lot of families would be better equipped to manage a week break every other month or two weeks every 4th month.

I think this would have been more difficult for me. And more difficult for one of my kids that didn't like change. Adjusting to camp was fine since they would be going for 2 months. Having to adjust to something else every month or two would not work for a lot of families and kids.

My late husband was from a midwest farming family, several generations, and iirc, most major crops (corn, soy, etc) were planted in spring and harvested in fall. Not during the summer months. In fact, summer was the only time we could make travel plans with any of them.

So I don’t think needing kids to help farm was the reason for summer break in most cases. When my DH was a kid, he and his cousins got up way before school started every morning to milk cows and do chores … and then more chores after school and activities.

There may have been school schedules set around farming way back in history, but it would’ve been during planting and harvesting weeks, not summer.

arcy, according to the statistical study linked to below that I found with a search, the percentage of the US population living on farms was 30% in 1920, 15% in 1950, and 2.2% in 1985. It's surely even lower now.

Having kids available for farm work may have been a reason for summer vacation in the 19th century in some parts of the US but I think you'll agree that's not valid today for almost all kids almost everywhere. School systems set their schedules annually. There must be other reasons besides tradition that they follow this pattern.

US Farm populations

"Have to wonder - do you have a useful thought to add to the conversation that isn't an insult?"

That's actually pretty funny! 😀

We are also a large dairy state and I know that summer is prime hay harvesting time. With modern equipment, large farms probably don't need much help, but I would think back before their invention or availability to smaller farmers, lots of help was need to harvest hay. I would think the same is true of other grain crops including corn. Most are harvested in our climate in the hottest months of the year to avoid moisture in the stored crops. Even in the 1970-80's when we lived in a rural county, our friends with dairy farms put all their kids to work in the summer harvesting hay and corn for winter feed. Kids from neighboring farms worked for them, too, if they finished their own harvests.

You're describing what they do on vacation, not necessarily why there is one to begin with.

If you don't live where hay is grown, does your local school system have summer vacation? Why then if there's no hay to harvest?

Elmer, you do realize that even before we became the United States that most colonial communities had local schools and that some colonies had compulsory education laws. In the 1600s I believe that most communities had an agricultural based economy.

Think about the number of people who still believe blacks are inherently lazy and dumb, - a stereotype used to justify slavery - they need a master because they were unable to make any decisions for themselves.

How many still believe women are less capable leaders than men? (Look at the fortune 500 companies to figure out how society really feels about women's ability to lead).

Why are we still changing our clocks twice a year?

It takes a long time for society to change even when what we are doing or what are thinking makes no sense at all.

Even about 40 years ago, a lot of kids in the Chicago exurbs spent their summers detassling corn, even if they didn’t live on a farm. We lived in a suburb and there were over a half-dozen corn fields around, but we didn’t detassle corn, our mom grew up with that and had had enough of it. But, golly, there is nothing better than just-picked sweet corn.

I live in the PA Dutch country - still a lot of Amish who work the fields.

Jennifer, I can't accept your suggestion that school schedules, including the summer vacation break, are a centuries-old legacy. There are far too many data points that contradict this notion. No need to mention them.

I don't have any more of a source to rely on than my own thoughts, just like you, but I think that perhaps it's believed that children (especially younger ones) benefit from a break of a few months from their M-F, 6 hour a day slog.

We started classes on the 19th, so this week is the 3rd week of classes. I am exhausted already and need this holiday weekend for an extra day. K-12 schools started where I work something like August 8 (they are always super early but typically finish by my birthday early June)and where I live they started this week, so they are much earlier. My great nephews start Tuesday in NY state. My niece was taking all 3 boys and her DH clothes shopping this weekend, so keep her in your thoughts lol. We always started later in NY state after Labor Day but then we went to around the 3rd week of June.

Refused to open this thread until today.

Usually, my kids started after Labor Day. Even that I resented, having to leave the beach house on Labor Day. School year was def shorter with private schools; my friend joked that, the higher the tuition, the shorter the school year. That was totally true.

Huntsville City Schools started 8-1-2024. When my boy’s were in school during the late 70’s and 80’s, they started after Labor day and got out before Memorial Day. I did not work outside the home and it was three months of bliss.

When I was in school the schedule was the same, except after we moved to north Alabama, we started in early August and then got out for six weeks in September, ”to pick cotton”. I never picked cotton, except on a field trip.

Today, I think it would benefit everyone if school was year round, with long breaks.

My son was fortunate enough, that he could afford home school, and that it was available.

When he was that age, it was not available to us. There was not the computers we have now and you could only go through a church school. It was VERY expensive.

Mtn, very true, and the college school year is the shortest of all!