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rick7072

Dig up existing lawn, or overseed?

6 months ago
last modified: 6 months ago

I have a shady back yard with a patchy and weedy lawn and I’d like to see what I can do to get it healthier and greener There are trees including Norway Maple growing a medium distance away. Most of the year I’m looking at a thin-to-medium cover of grass, with some bare patches, and plenty of weeds which seem to do better than this particular grass in the situation. In the summer it looks pretty bad and sparse. Now in late September it looks pretty full, in part because the various weeds are doing well and occupying maybe 50% of the lawn, and the existing grass is sort of at its peak.

I’ve purchased some Jonathan Green ‘Black Beauty Shady Nooks' grass which contains mostly fescue and ryegrass and seems right for his shady situation, and a seed spreader.

My question: should I dig up or rototill the entire yard and figure out a way to toss out the existing sod and weeds to start fresh, and then plant this new seed? I would prefer not to do that if for no other reason than it sounds like a lot of work. I’m hoping I can simply take a strong rake or other tool to the existing lawn and weeds to loosen the soil and thin out the grass and weeds already there, and then overseed.

Advice appreciated.

Comments (4)

  • 6 months ago

    I'd go with overseed based on what I have observed when neighbors try the roto till approach. They wound up with more weeds and the grass didn't grow too well. One problem is that the richer soil at the surface gets turned over. I did a very small square of my shady yard and also didn't have good results. With 50% grass, it seems like your lawn is a good candidate for overseeding. It may take a few years for it to fill out.

    Rick (zone 6b, MA) thanked dovetonsils
  • 6 months ago

    Thanks, I'll do that. I've also had someone comment that the Tall Fescue that comprises about 50% of this mix can be quite weedy and doesn't mix well with other grasses. Any thoughts about that?

  • 6 months ago

    I'm not sure how the idea of rototilling prior to seeding ever came to the forefront, but it needs to go away. Mother Nature never rototills before she reseeds grasses. If anything, She "rolls" the seed, pressing it into the soil surface, by hoof action from the ruminants walking over and knocking the seed onto the ground. That's the process we should be emulating, not rototilling.

    With that in mind, if your area is really shady, you need a seed mix with lots of red fescue and little to no rye in it. The red fescue is a variety with more shade tolerance than the TTTF (turf-type tall fescue). TTTF has some, but red fescue varieties are more tolerant. The reds are also a finer texture, so you'll need to seed it more densely. Fescue is the type of plant which grows one plant from one seed, and it doesn't spread like, say, bermuda or creeping bentgrass. If you want a more dense stand of turf, then you have to have a more dense seed sow. Had you started seeding in September (or late August), you would now know whether you needed to add more seed to densify the turf. At this point you likely only have time for one fall seeding while keeping your fingers crossed for rain and a late frost.

    So, seed, roll the seed down, water lightly and frequently for 7-10 days until the fescue sprouts, then back off on the frezuency of watering and water a little longer each time until the grass comes in. At no time should the soil become soggy. All you need to water is the surface where the seed is.

    As for fertilizer you can either apply an organic fertilizer at the same time that you sow the seed, or you can apply a chemical starter fertilizer after a month. Seeds come with enough nutrients to sustain new plants for a month while the roots grow, and then the roots can obtain nutrients from the soil. Organic fertilizers supply nutrients after 21 days, so the timing is just about right for them to kick in when the grass plants need it.

    Rick (zone 6b, MA) thanked dchall_san_antonio
  • 3 months ago

    If it was me I would apply weed killer and wait a month before reseeding. Tilling doesn't kill the weed roots and will bring up weed seed deeper down resulting with weeds come back with a vengeance crowding out grass seedlings.

    The times I tilled to reseed areas I always killed everything with round up before doing it. Then the tilled dirt should be raked and compacted with a roller. Think about removing a scaffold or two on the Norways to give the grass light, or remove less desirable trees on the east and west sides of the trees. This is what I had to do to get grass to grow under my two crimson king maples and one Norway maple. I would say I have 8' of trunk before and branches.


    Rick (zone 6b, MA) thanked kevin9408
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