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Blasted awkward corner!! S-O-S!

last year
last modified: last year

Help!! Desperate for a solution for the corner of a smallish L-shaped kitchen in transitional but still timeless style open concept:

10' ceiling

195" long wall, 109" short wall

For visual...painted cabs, wood island, debating same-painted or wood-stain hood. Same subdued stone countertops with countersplash. Island slab also same. Neutral stained mid-tone brown french oak floors.

Long wall with 42" wall cabs with 15(?)-18" glass panel cabs to the ceiling. 36"cooktop range, 42" wood hood to ceiling (must remain where located). Base cabs mostly drawers (or with some doors as needed for balance).

Short wall with 36" counter-depth fridge & 30" oven/mw combo (both units with same depth & cabs above to ceiling same as long wall). Prefer to keep appliances on short wall so they are not the first thing seen from the entry.

Side consideration: there is an 8' island with a 33" sink (seems big, may go 30") and 24" dishwasher Sink is centered to cooktop & hood (must remain where located).

Struggling with what to do for the awkward corner! Trying to avoid the any weird step backs in depth or any strange blank flat panels/blind cabs.

Had thought maybe eliminate the corner cabs & instead use 2 corner L-shaped open shelves with a sconce above? Seems either oddly squished, or if another cab removed - seems overly long!

Open to any and all suggestions, PLEASE!

Options:

  1. Take the cabs all the way to the wall oven unit.
  2. 2 L-shaped open shelves just in the corner with sconce(s) above.
  3. 2 L-shaped open shelves as noted above but remove an additional cabinet on the long wall.
  4. Built a small wall in the corner at the end of the long wall to separate the 2 sides. Take the long cabs up next to that wall. Place 2 open shelves from the end of the wall oven unit straight into the corner wall.
  5. ??

Also to note, my symmetry-loving heart is a little broken with this layout, but trying to make the best of it!

The 3D rendering pic is very ROUGH and from an app. The last cab to the left of the hood would have knobs going the opposite direction, ofc. The hood obviously isn't Shaker (wasn't an app option). Just a rough draft to help me visualize the drawers better and try to find a solution for the corner. Left me empty-handed as you can see!!

**Photos depicting actual different solutions.




























Comments (36)

  • PRO
    last year

    Way too many pics of whatever and way too long of a basic question. The first step her eis to post a to scale floor plan of the space every window, doorways where those lead and every measurement clearly marked Use graph paper to make this easire . You post that here in jpeg format in a comment , DO NOT START another post .You will get lots of help here from pros on kitchen design and IMO much better info that a cabinet sales person doing the design . I will say most of us will not read that long post and the pics are just useless without even one explantion of what oyu like. We need the floor plan with not one thing in it except the plumbing if it cannot be moved . The sizes of the appliances if they are staying.

    keep_faith thanked Patricia Colwell Consulting
  • PRO
    last year
    last modified: last year


    Interior Design Work · More Info



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    lake home · More Info


    keep_faith thanked JAN MOYER
  • last year

    The ideas have only to do with what to do with the awkward corner, not with how to prevent the awkward corner. Better to move the wall oven to the long wall, to the right of the cooktop. I know you said you don’t want them to be the first thing you see, but the first thing you see is the kitchen anyway, and the hood, and anything on the countertops. The oven on the right keeps all the cooking in one place, great when you are moving something from cooktop to oven, and when serving.

    And, it lets you keep a cookie jar and glasses for milk next to the refrigerator!

    keep_faith thanked bpath
  • last year
    last modified: last year



    @Patricia Colwell Consulting the appliance measures are at top of post: cooktop 36", hood 42" fridge 35.75" counter counter-depth at 30". Oven combo 30". Sink is 33" but I'm considering going 30". DW is 24". This is a secondary residence. 2 bedrooms, bathroom and media room upstairs, roof top deck. The range/hood and sink are not permitted to be relocated. The other cabinetry is fair game. There will not be any outlets in the countertop or countersplash. All of the kitchen outlets are in drawers or under cabinet lighting. The pantry was built out with a countertop with outlets.

    @JAN MOYER I love the windows wish we had that option. I do like the wall option.

    @bpath I agree with the practicality of the placement. Unfortunately, with only 48" of room before the hood, the wall oven will be almost snug up against it. We aren't permitted to relocate the sink or range. I guess another option would be to use a base range and oven but I do so love my drawers under the cooktop. I also prefer a wall oven. Hubby keeps reminding me we are making concessions to get this place and keeping things scaled back, but I remind him aesthetically pleasing is nice, too. :)

  • PRO
    last year

    I think since you can't move anything, you need to rethink your symmetry. I would leave a wider space for the hood ( it looks too crowded ) . Do a 36" cabinet to the right and 2 - 36" on the left. Add a cabinet next to wall oven and then fill in with the floating shelves. I would also redo your bases. Those 24" drawers will not be as good for storing pots and pans or small appliances. I have a 27" cabinet and It would be sooooo much better if it were at least a 30"

    Here is what I would try :


    The cabinet next to the wall oven would go back to the corner and the shelves would land on it

    It is hard to read the dimensions but you would have 21" wide shelves approx.

    Good luck

    keep_faith thanked Debbi Washburn
  • last year

    Is it possible to remove that little stub wall next to the refrigerator? You could then have a nice refrigerator surround with a panel on that side and it would buy you a few (or several) inches more space on that wall. Note that the floor and ceiling may need to be patched, but depending on the depth of the wall, the refrigerator and upper cabinets may cover that.


    Also if you put the wall ovens right next to the refrigerator, make sure that the ref can open all the way without hitting the oven handle (to avoid dings in your ref door.)


    Regarding the corner, I think I'd prefer the uppers on the range wall to go all the way to the wall as straight cabinets, and have some blank wall space between the wall ovens and the corner. I'd mirror this with a square vs angled corner for the lowers. Maybe consider corner drawers like below.


    keep_faith thanked chicagoans
  • PRO
    last year

    For the base corner cabinet, don't do a 45 degree angle. Do a cabinet that allows for a "D"-pullout, like this:



    Custom Cabinet Drawers & Pull-Out Systems · More Info

    Then for the wall, put in an appliance garage to house a small appliance like a toaster oven or coffee maker:



    Rosenwald House · More Info



    Beauty & Function - Appliance Garages · More Info



    keep_faith thanked Sabrina Alfin Interiors
  • last year

    Thank you @Debbi Washburn. i do like the larger 36 cabs and drawers. so you are saying just a single set of shelves from the long wall ending into a 12" wide cabinet panel? What would you suggest for the base cabinets?

  • last year

    @chicagoans Thanks! We asked about removing that stumpy wall and doing a cabinet surround. At first, we were told it was a possibility. Then it was mentioned it might be weight bearing. IMO that's doubtful. The jury is still out. I'm trying avoid drawers like that, but do see they are a possible solution.

  • last year
    last modified: last year

    Thank you, @Sabrina Alfin Interiors. I'm definitely trying to avoid the angled cabinet. I'd be ok with the D-cabinet but it seems like there is already such a good deal of pots and pans storage that I wasn't sure if it would be necessary. I had our pantry built out for small appliance storage, but I guess I could maybe use a cabinet garage for a coffee station. It would need to be on that back wall facing out though. So how to end the side wall into it?

  • last year

    Did I miss somewhere that you don't want to do a super susan in the corner? If you get rid of the stub wall by the fridge, you gain enough inches for a 36" susan. Mine holds all of our dry goods: canisters of sugar, flour, rice, beans, pasta, etc.

    I agree with the others about fewer, wider drawers. Will these be custom cabinets? We are in the middle of a kitchen remodel (our second), and I specified the depth of the bottom drawers, to accommodate taller things, like large pots, crock pots, and cake/pie pans stored vertically. The middle drawer got whatever depth was left.

    The secret to an efficient kitchen layout is to develop a storage plan. Figure out where everything is going to go, and focus on putting things near their point of use: knives, cutting boards, colanders near the sink; pots and pans, spices, oils, cooking utensils, potholders near the range (and potholders near the ovens, in your case). Then assign space for dishes, flatware, towels, storage containers, bags and wraps. Is there a trash/recycle pullout somewhere?

    keep_faith thanked AnnKH
  • last year
    last modified: last year

    Thanks, @AnnKH! Yes, these are custom cabinets. I have the deep drawers now under my cooktop and definitely want those again for the new place! I'm hoping we can move that wall. The trash pull out is next to the sink in the island. We will have cookie/baking sheet dividers in the doors above the oven. The island will also have a tray door at the end. Aside from oils and spices, the majority of the food and staples will be kept in the pantry. I'm working on adjustments to that plan, too. Too many short boxes in our rendering I'm afraid. We're taking out the row above the countertop and extending it out another section longer so will be a little more open like the photo. So, I many not really need the storage of a super susan but it may be an option for that base corner.





  • PRO
    last year

    Is this a house or a condo? What is the reasoning for not being able to move the cooktop? I have never run into that issue.

    That corner by the wall oven is tight, so no reason to draw extra attention over there. That was the reason I thought to put the floating shelves on the cooktop wall instead. When you aren't symmetrical, the next best thing is to try to get your wall cabinet doors the same size so there is a nice balance.

    For the bases, I noted them on the picture I posted - lazy susan corner ( not angled ) . the bases do not need any sort of balance since they are hidden by the island. These cabinets are your workhorses. They need to be sized and configured to what you need for your cooking stuff.

    keep_faith thanked Debbi Washburn
  • last year
    last modified: last year

    @Debbi It's a townhome. Our selections coordinator just said that it isn't an option to move the range. My guess is so they can use the same gas plans in all of the brownstones? Not sure. There have been a couple of other things that are more semi-custom than fully custom. After building our total custom home years ago, honestly, I'm not too upset about it, lol. I would have liked more control over the symmetry, though.

    I see your lazy susan base now I wasn't sure what that was before. Thank you! What would the base look like next to the wall oven to fill the space on that side?

  • PRO
    last year

    Its still the lazy susan. Like I had said - the dimensions are hard to read so can say for certain what cabinet would go there. A lazy susan is usually 36 x 36, but can be 33x33 or 33 x 36.

    keep_faith thanked Debbi Washburn
  • PRO
    last year

    "And, it lets you keep a cookie jar and glasses for milk next to the refrigerator!"

    Priorities, priorities, priorities.

    keep_faith thanked Mark Bischak, Architect
  • last year





    The app is far from perfect, but its looking so much better!! Thanks everyone for your input so far!! I definitely don't know the exact size filler panels or spaces needed between the fridge & oven or corner susan base. Nor, do I know how much the fridge & oven wall upper cab would need to be taller to meet the glass panel doors. Also, would the 30"-33" wall cab next to the oven be the usual cabinet depth?


    The hood in rendering is actually 48". 42" was not an option. So the group of double cabs to the left of hood could move 3" more to the right, making the open shelves about 23-24" possibly...

  • last year

    Oops! I now see my error with the 30" cab and 13" space for the wall shelving. Yikes. Would that need to be a 24" cab?

  • PRO
    last year

    Can you draw a floor plan with dimensions that are easy to read? On the blue print there are walls on the end of each run so it is important to be dealing with exact measurements .

    Are you working with a designer? They should be doing all of this work for you.

    keep_faith thanked Debbi Washburn
  • last year

    Hi. Our cabinet maker's line included an "easy reach" corner unit. Essentially an L shaped upper cabinet with a lazy Susan door.

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    keep_faith thanked Sue Pedersen
  • last year
    last modified: last year


    @Debbi I don't have a clear floor plan with the exact dimensions other than what's in the beginning of the post, unfortunately. The long wall is 195". The stubby end wall on that countertop side is probably 24", it ends at the countertop. It's 4" wide. The short wall is 109". On that side by the fridge, there's another stubby short wall, it seems the same size 4" wide and prob. 24"-30" long. Which other specific measurements are needed for the floor plan?

    We are working with a 'selections coordinator' who has been somewhat helpful, but also constraining, if that makes sense. She sends what we discuss to the cabinet builder and he does the drawings. I used a decorator/designer to help with the finishes/colors/style choices, but not a kitchen designer, per se. I thought our guidance from the selections coordinator and cabinet draftsman would be a little more substantial, until it wasn't.

    This second photo is what was provided to us after our first meeting. It's not terrible, but I definitely have issues with a few things. I much prefer larger uppers and bases. I'm not crazy about the size of the blank panel and open corner shelving is bothersome to me, but I'm not sure if I would prefer a straight shelves from the long wall only, or just wrap the corner with cabs.


  • PRO
    last year
    last modified: last year

    I just went back and read again and I see your dimensions - sorry I didn't see that the first time. I changed the cabinets over the ref so it is one tall cabinet. I would actually do the same over the ovens too ( assuming your are doing custom cabinets and they can build that way.

    Had a quiet day today - put your plan in to see what it works out to.







    I did change your island - left to right 15 - 18 garbage - sink base - dw - 12" . It will be a 9 ft island. Better for seating 4

    Hope this helps

    keep_faith thanked Debbi Washburn
  • last year
    last modified: last year

    Wow, @Debbi Washburn I cannot thank you enough! That helps so much!! I'm not the most visual visualizer and really needed a rendering like that to wrap my brain around! That's amazing!


    We had planned to take the stone countertop/counteraplash around the hood up to the ceiling. On the opposite side had maybe thought to have it end at the bottom of the first open shelf. It may make more sense to carry it to the ceiling there, as well, depending on the additional expense.

    If we were to forego the open-shelving and wrap the corner in a susan type cabinet what would those measurements need to be?


    I definitely love the clean lines of the tall cabinets for the fridge and oven. And completely agree on the island going to 9'! Having the DW closer to the oven is so much better.


    My unease has transformed to a sense of calm just by seeing your well balanced images where everything makes sense!! :)) Truly, thank you.

  • PRO
    last year

    No susan on the top - that would be a diagonal cabinet and look terrible in that corner. You would do a blind cabinet. There would be a single door cabinet ( approx 17" ) where the floating shelves are and the ref wall would stay as is.

    The drama of the space is where the hood is. That is why it needed more room to breathe - it was too jammed up. The focus is there - no one is really paying any attention to that corner. The ref and wall oven will catch your eye over there. The other thing was a lot of narrower doors. There isn't necessarily anything wrong with that, but sometimes it can just make a space too busy.

    So you know, the proportion in these pics is an 18 over 42" wall cabinet with a 6" space for crown at the top. That also makes a big difference in how things appear.

    The plan will need to be adjusted based on the actual placement of the cooktop ( it is different in each plan 48 , 49, 53 " from the right wall? But the concept is still the same.

    Make sure to ask about outlet location in the island. The codes have changed ( I don't fully understand it yet myself so I defer to those who are much smarter then me! )

    I am glad I had the time to help!

    keep_faith thanked Debbi Washburn
  • last year
    last modified: last year



    @Debbi Washburn and all...Randomly looking at hoods and just saw this! Is that shelving in the actual corner?? It appears so! What sorcery allows that to be done? Looks like lazy susan below, too. I'm trying to visualize the wall oven as the second cabinet to the right of the shelf!

  • last year

    Was the corner drywalled at an angle and then tiled?

  • last year

    It would not have to be a diagonal door on the upper. Corner upper cabinets that have a lazy susan type door have been around for decades. See the pictures that Sue Pedersen posted above.

    That is a very fucntional cabinet style for an upper.

    keep_faith thanked RNmomof2 zone 5
  • PRO
    last year

    Yours will not look anything like that because of the wall oven. That space is not open enough! Doing a diagonal base would push you far from every reaching into the corner. You could just do corner open shelves.




    Here is the same corner without the moldings



    The picture you show is an angled wall ( so no lazy susan at all on the bottom unless it is a fake wall ) and the angled shelves are between 2 cabinets that are the same depth. Yours is not.

    Here is what it would look like if you built an angled wall just for the area above the countertop.

    first option has a small 12" cabinet tot eh right of the wall oven



    Here is a larger angled corner ( you would have to take about 12" of cabinets away and the small cabinet to the right of the WO



    You can see how it hits at an odd angle because the wo is deeper than a wall cabinet.

    I would not do the angled corner. Honestly - stop trying to "design" that corner. It is not a big enough area for that. Simple is the best for that space.

    keep_faith thanked Debbi Washburn
  • last year

    Thank you for that @Debbi Washburn. Point taken and appreciated. I also appreciate your descriptions and the rationale for the choices about an angled wall. The images are so helpful.


    I guess my next question to you, and anyone else who would like to respond, is what would you choose to do if it were your kitchen?


    One set of shelves from the long wall? Corner open shelves?

    Take the cabinets all the way to the wall oven?


    I have easily made other choices while putting this plan together. Maybe time for rock, paper, scissors. :-/


  • last year

    Just a vote against open shelving, I’ve lived with them before and they are hard to keep clean (and I am not that picky) plus they’re super trendy right now — so for me, that’s two strikes

    keep_faith thanked la_la Girl
  • last year

    I agree with la-_la girl, no open shelving for me in my kitchen. I do not want to dust. If this is a second home. do you want to show up and have to clean off the decorative shelves?

    Cabinets to the corner for me.

    keep_faith thanked RNmomof2 zone 5
  • last year

    I'm not sure if anyone has suggested this, but I think the kitchen dimensions really don't work well with the wall ovens. I would either do a range and a microwave drawer in the island or put a wall oven in the island if you hate the range. And the island seem large enough for primary prep space - I'd add a small prep sink to the main counter with the space freed up from relocating the ovens.

    keep_faith thanked nexp
  • last year
    last modified: last year

    @Debbi Washburn if you have a free moment, would you mind adding a corner upper cabinet into the rendering you created? It's really the only scenario that hasn't been shared. I realize I may be making a mountain from a molehill. 😬

  • PRO
    last year



    Hope this helps

    keep_faith thanked Debbi Washburn
  • last year
    last modified: last year

    Yes, it most certainly does! Thank you so much!! I truly appreciate your doing that! Thank you for all of your input!!

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