You need a dwarfing rootstock, right? If apples grow in ground in your zone 10b, get a small, cheap, potted, grafted apple tree that is a dwarf, not semi-dwarf, but dwarf. Leave it in its pot.

Bud graft Sweet Mademoiselle in a couple places on the apple tree's trunk just BELOW, not even an Inch BELOW the highest graft junction on the trunk. When your SM bud grafts take and start leafing out, cut the trunk off ust above the SM shoots.

There are usually three segments on a dwarf tree. The top (fruiting apple variety), middle (dwarfing section), and finally, the root stock (root growing, tree anchoring section), are how dwarf trees come. Semi-dwarf apple trees usually have only two segments, rootstock, and top graft. I don't thing getting Semi-dwarf apple tree will work...too much vigor from the root stock may make a monster out of your resulting Sweet Mademoiselle. Natural, genetically dwarf apple trees are not commonly encountered, but if one comes your way, give it a try.

Sometimes when an apple tree is dwarfed through one upon another grafts, the top graft is the standard apple grafted upon the dwarfing rootstock, which is grafted upon a strong feeding/soil stable root stock which is the one the dwarf apple tree grows its roots from.

Did I confuse you thoroughly? Sorry for that.

This is a cheap way to see if your Sweet Mademoiselle can be shortened in height. If your grafts fail, try again on the same 'guinea pig' tree. Tree variety matters not. When you look at the trunk for where the graft junctions are, if their locations are not clear, get the trunk wet there and the sites could be easy to see. Don't worry about hurting the tree, it's happy to oblige you, even after the top graft is removed. That's because all the trunk is getting is an upgrade from just growing apples to growing beautiful Sweet Mademoiselles! 😁

Moses

Moses thank you for your reply but perhaps I didn't write clearly, I see now. I want to use Sweet Mademoiselle as the rootstock not the other way around. It's so strong so I wondered if I can get other roses onto it. I have 2 rooted cuttings of it, so I have 2 to experiment with. Just wondered if anyone here has used roses other than Dr Huey etc to graft on, & if they can chime in on their experience?

Oops! I'm pretty sure you cannot graft onto a cane of an own root rose bush since the cane has a programmed lifespan. Canes are being replaced by a new basal break(s) which arise from the crown when they arrive at their predetermined old age=death, recurring again and again, all the lifelong and and all over the bush at its crown origin of new basal canes.

In a warmer climate such as yours is, however, a cane may have a very long life span before declining and then dying. Give it a try. What have you got to lose? What scion material (varieties), are you interested in using?

Moses

I am going to embark on grafting roses soon. In preparation for that, I obtained cuttings of Pink Clouds, a variety that has been used very successfully by Sequoia Nursery and Burling Leong for many years. This was on the advice of my mentor. I now have >8 well rooted cuttings of it for my project, but I ran out of time to do it this year, so I plan on starting in the spring. I'm tagging @roseseek here, since he is an expert and can give you more info on this. And BTW, I have extra plants of it, and since you're in So. Calif., I'd be happy to send you one if you would like!

@Soozie Q, zone 10b MANY different roses have been used as stocks by many people and producers. You can try budding on any of them and some may work while many won't. Often, the particular stock is selected because it is sufficiently hardy or successful in particular conditions. For instance, multiflora is often used in acidic and colder conditions due to its requirements. Dr. Huey is often used in hotter, more arid, alkaline conditions as it is more tolerant of the soil and water types in those conditions. Fortuniana has been selected for use in Florida and other locations where Root Knot Nematodes proliferate because its roots remain higher in the soil than the level the nematodes usually populate, therefore it's "nematode resistant". There are many others used in other countries and requirements but these will serve to illustrate the point. Old ARS annuals contain articles and photos of nurseries which used Frau Karl Druschki, Mme Plantier and other OGRs as stocks. Bill Grant, a well respected California rosarian received early Austin roses from a Canadian nursery decades ago and the suckers they produced were the rampant HT, Bride's Dream. The OGR, Gloire des Rosomanes (Ragged Robin), was the traditional stock used in the US for commercial production, until it was confused with Dr. Huey in the fields around WWII. The producers noticed the plants accidentally budded on Huey grew better, faster, more vigorously than those on Ragged Robin, so it was replaced. The old multiflora hybrid, De la Grifferaie has long been used to create very tall standards. Generally, Dr. Huey flows sap well to about 3'. The old multiflora hybrid I.X.L.R. would easily flow sap over 4'. De la Grifferaie has succeeded in creating weeping standards to 8'. I've used Harkness' shrub, Cardinal Hume to bud bushes as well as 4' standards.

If the cambium layer of Sweet Mademoiselle will accept scions, using it for stocks may work. Not all will. There was a small nursery in Mar Vista, CA, by Santa Monica many years ago, operated by Judge Henry Fonda (no relation to the actor). Judge Fonda tried many times to produce standards using whips of the ultra vigorous Cl Cecile Brunner which grew in his yard. Nothing ever took. He theorized it was "genetically incompatible". Perhaps, perhaps not. The only way to determine if it will work is to practice and try it. You may succeed, or not.

Something to keep in mind no matter what you decide to use is the virus status of the stocks you intend to try. The main method of spreading rose viruses is through budding/grafting. You want to insure the stock you are using is known to be free of the viruses they test for. Sweet Mademoiselle may or may not be, unless it was produced from virus indexed stock from UC Davis Foundation Plant Services or obtained from a commercial source who promotes they only sell "virus free" roses. Otherwise, you can't know unless you have the rose professionally "indexed", tested for virus. The Pink Clouds Susan is offering has been indexed and has been determined to be "virus free". The Cardinal Hume, Dr. Huey, IXL, Gloire des Rosomanes and the Huey and Fortuniana I used to grow, are all indexed, hence "virus free". I found in my chilly climate, Huey and Fortuniana failed miserably due to the lack of heat in my climate. The others root well for me and will push buds where Huey and Fortuniana simply refused to root and push buds. They succeed splendidly when I lived in the hotter area in the San Fernando Valley, but not here in North Santa Barbara County.

For someone just starting out budding, I would highly recommend beginning with rooted pieces of Pink Clouds. Ralph Moore created it back in the early 1950s and marketed it as a "hedge rose" to compete against Ragged Robin which was advertised as a "rose hedge". Sequoia Nursery found it made a marvelous stock for miniature standards and the many thousands of them they produced over their last fifty years of operation were all grown on Pink Clouds whips. Burling of Burlington Roses budded (and still does) on Pink Clouds for decades. She reported she preferred it as it remains in suitable condition for budding over a very long period of the year where others, such as Huey, are only in suitable condition for short periods of high heat. Pink Clouds has a significantly thicker cambium layer, the circulatory system of the plant, which is required to permit successful budding. Most often, attempts fail because there isn't cambium tissue on the stock and on the back of the bud. The second most common failure is due to the bud drying out before it knits.

The easiest way to learn to bud is to use the Chip Budding method and Pink Clouds stock. The method requires the least skill and practice. Pink Clouds has the thickest cambium layer so lifting the bark to expose it stands the best chance of leaving cambium in the exposed cut so the effort succeeds. There are many tutorials on line how to chip bud. I posted a blog post about it a decade ago on my blog, with photos, you are welcome to read if you're interested. https://pushingtheroseenvelope.blogspot.com/2014/11/chip-budding.html . I hope it helps.

But, sure, feel free to try the Sweet Mademoiselle to see if it works. Good luck!

Susan I'd love to try Pink Clouds, it is used by an experienced rosarian I know also, here in CA. So here's a question for you: if you wanted more rootstock I assume you can let PC grow for more future cuttings that you can root? Not that I'll likely do that but more for my knowledge.

I'm sure rose growers have their reasons for using the rootstocks we are familiar with but has your mentor ever experimented with other varieties?

I

@susan9santabarbara I tried to DM you but I'm not able to. Houzz is weirding out on me nowadays.

Soozie, I don't do DM on this forum, but here's my email: ***

Either tell me here or shoot me an email, and I'll remove it from this post once you get it.

Anyway, (as Roseseek mentioned) I have several virus-indexed Pink Clouds and IXL plants in one gallon pots. Since my grafting project got postponed, I'm planning on saving two of each to grow as mother plants, and so I'm hoping to give away the others rather than ditch them! I could send you one or two of each if you're interested. They both grow extremely well and are incredibly easy to root. We can discuss on email :-D

Be sure to read Roseseek's great comments above... he's an expert and so generous with his help!