Ooh la la the Jan Plan looks nice. That's the main layout we were envisioning in terms of TV, desk, and sofa placement. I like that we can add shelves above/around the desk too eventually if needed.

The key is going to be finding the right sofa that's comfortable to sit on and also provides a reasonably comfortable bed...

The idea of an ottoman instead of coffee table would be nice because yes kcooz07 you remembered correctly I need to elevate my feet when I sit :)

This townhome is a 3 bedroom. Two upstairs, and this den room on the main floor is really supposed to be the primary bedroom. There is also a finished walk-out basement with a full bath, so we could put a bed down there. It wouldn't look great, with our gym equipment in one area, husband's work desk in another, but we do have the space to put a bed down there.

I want to address the interior designer situation. First I want to say that I always assume I am the problem. I know I need design help. I know I can't do this alone. I know if I do it alone the design will not be successful. I have the curse of caring deeply about interior design, having passionate opinions about interior design, and having zero talent for interior design. I've learned this combo is actually not uncommon. Lots of discussion threads about it on various internet forums. I'm very interested in "typing" systems and I believe there is an editor-perfector personality type that probably accounts for most of the people who are passionate about interior design but not good at interior design. We are not the ones who come up with the big picture idea, we're not the ones who handle the details and make it happen, we are the ones who critique and fine-tune as the final stage of the process. People hate us.

I actually do have a big picture idea for the style I want my home to have, but conveying it to designers has been... not working so far. I think it's because I only have my words to describe it, no pictures, and designers are usually so visual.

Pretty soon after we moved in, we had the first design team in for a consult. They seemed enthusiastic about the project. Then they disappeared, popped back up weeks later and apologized saying they just got so busy busy busy, and gave me a very high quote for all kinds of work and areas of the house I was not asking for help with.

The second interior designer came for consultation after we'd lived here a couple months. I adore her on a personal level, would love to be friends with her, but I was paying an hourly fee for the consult and seriously a majority of the time was spent listening to her (very entertaining) stories about various topics not related to my home. And she did charge me for that time. The one huge piece of help I got from that consult was that the undertone of the living room carpet would never work. So I've told myself it was worth the hundreds of dollars for that one very important insight.

The third designer worked with us remotely (he lives in Denmark.) He put together a detailed plan for the living/dining room. Everyone who has looked at the plan has had the same reaction - anyone off the street could come up with that very basic furniture layout. And the plan disregarded specific requirements we had gone over, such as wall-to-wall carpet (he insisted the entire main floor must be hardwood) and he placed 2 chairs exactly where I had specified I did not want 2 chairs. That was probably an issue of working with us remotely. On paper that furniture layout looks fine but when you're in the space and can feel the feng shui you instantly know something is very wrong with that furniture placement.

The fourth designer came yesterday and overall I felt like the whole meeting was a test to see how stupid we are. She would show us photos of design elements that would be so so unbelievably wrong for our home and ask how we feel about them. I kept answering it's lovely for that home but would not fit in our home at all. And she would agree. She also said she forbids us to paint the main space brown. So that was depressing but she's certainly not the only one steering us away from medium depth paint colors. The consensus from designers and the paint color consultant is to do the main space in a very light color. I am absolutely open to doing that, and having our deeper colors in the den and bedrooms. It's just disappointing to give up my "dream" for the main paint color that will surround me every day.

Thank you so very much to everyone who is helping me here!!

I wouldn't give up your dream of a dark main space. It is your home. Why are you letting others dictate the choices you make? You might have design ideas that work for you even if not for the general rules of design.

I only have my words to describe it, no pictures, and designers are usually so visual.

But you do have pictures - go online and find pictures of what you like! Your taste is very unique and individual so it is not going to come from one picture. You are going to have to find 8 pictures and say what element of each one is that you like. Don't make up words for you your style or a look or a vibe. Be specific!

And, you are going to have to hunt hard to find a designer willing to take on the risk of creating something in a style that is not typical, not a style with a label. I suspect these are going to either be very young new designers or very expensive designers.

Where have you been looking for images of the things that are in your mind? What websites do you go to? Do you have a system for collecting ideas all in one place?

Also, I thought of you when I saw this pic. I have no idea what L.L. Bean style is but thought maybe this captures some of it??? Don't know.

Thanks for the additional info. Since you have a full bath on the lower level, I would think about putting the bed there and getting a comfy sofa (no bed) for this room. Your sister could use either when she stays over and if more than one guest, the lower level would be available to use. You could find a way to define the space for the bed. Would that work? If not, then a sofa bed would be needed.

"The key is going to be finding the right sofa that's comfortable to sit on and also provides a reasonably comfortable bed..."

________________________________________

In the biggest of metro areas? I doubt you will get a test drive. There's no harm in sheets and all on a sofa minus it's back cushions. Very comfy, just test lying down

_____________________________________

"I do have a big picture idea for the style I want my home to have, but conveying it to designers has been... not working so far. I think it's because I only have my words to describe it, no pictures, and designers are usually so visual."

______________

The words are? Use as many as you like. Designers take your WORDS and turn them into a coherent visual. One that you often can't fully see until you are done. That is where the designers words, and your listening come into play. It's dialogue

______________________________

"I know if I do it alone the design will not be successful. I have the curse of caring deeply about interior design, having passionate opinions about interior design, and having zero talent for interior design."

_______________________________

"

Second designer? This You smile brightly cut her off with, I need to talk about my house, and when we're done, I'd loooove to chat off the clock about your life, which is very entertaining!

__________________________

Denmark...

"The third designer worked with us remotely (he lives in Denmark.) He put together a detailed plan for the living/dining room. Everyone who has looked at the plan has had the same reaction - anyone off the street could come up with that very basic furniture layout. ( excitement rarely comes from layouts. That is plan for what fits, and fits well that meets the functions you need" The excitement comes from the selections..........

And the plan disregarded specific requirements we had gone over, such as wall-to-wall carpet (he insisted the entire main floor must be hardwood) Sorry,Good advice there, actually! and he placed 2 chairs exactly where I had specified I did not want 2 chairs.

................HELLO?! did you not just say you "are passionate/have zero talent for design"? Show us that "anyone can do it" plan Mr. Denmark created, please? "Anyone", can do MINE up above, basically, with an understanding of clearances and your wants. needs, but you didn't do it, did you?

Yesterday..............

"it's lovely for that home but would not fit in our home at all. And she would agree. She also said she forbids us to paint the main space brown. So that was depressing but she's certainly not the only one steering us away from medium depth ( medium depth brown is deep TAN/camel paint colors. The consensus from designers and the paint color consultant is to do the main space in a very light color. ( daylight is not penetrating light) I am absolutely open to doing that, and having our deeper colors in the den and bedrooms. It's just disappointing to give up my "dream" for the main paint color......unless you might love it in the end

__________________________________

All...........ABOVE AND BELOW

Is about communication. But that means you share what you love, and be prepared that a designer gives you what you love, but it may be in a different place than you imagined.

Or in a different way.

I happen to love dark rooms, have no CLUE what that room would look like in your mind. that said? A dark room needs a lot of DESIGN skill, a balance between light and dark. Color. lighting artwork. It must be brought to life or it WILL completely disappoint.

____________________________

I will tell you this"Oh Ms. plaidpine...? Without seeing a speck of your home beyond the den....and slight glimpse of living room?

No LL Bean, No Ralph Lauren, would let wall to wall carpet in their own home, or yours.Unless perhaps a very cool plaid in the DEN and maybe upstairs, but met with resistance.

Note? I've met "you" at least 250 times in 33 years.........: )

Where are your w.o.r.d.s and where if any idea books . Who are your favorite designers, given you are passionate about design.?

Look into a sleeper chair.......get yourself a couch you love.

Given the importance/volume of your books, suggest first figuring out how much wall space is needed, the ideal wall(s), take advantage of height and maybe incorporate a desk. Then do a floor plan and test where TV/seating/sleeping work best.

Would two chairs work for tv viewing/reading.

Then add a single or double trundle daybed to read and a good option for guests.

My discussion about the living/dining room is here: Help me envision this "great room" - all aspects of interior design

Lots of photos of the space, and I went into detail about the design style and atmosphere I'm trying to create. I also gave specific examples of elements I think would contribute to the look. I don't have the skill or confidence to put it all together.

It's a long thread and some of the older posts are "hidden" now unless you click to "see more comments." If you read all of my posts in that discussion and still have questions I would love to continue the conversation there.

I have been trying really hard every day to design, furnish, and decorate this home. I try every day to find help. I just keep failing and getting beat down. We love this home and the location, but sometimes we think we'll have to give up and sell it because this is not working.

This den/library/guestroom we're discussing here is MUCH easier than the living/dining room.

Well. I live in ROCHESTER, girlfriend. No, at that point it's no longer free : ) as the den layout was.

And you decide if you are going to listen. or tell me how to do it, as that never works .....It is called interpretation from dialogue, listening.....and then you let go of the reins.

My office number is on Houzz:

I love seeing all of these photos of books lining the walls. And Maureen has now added another seating/bed option to the list - a double daybed!

Jan a collaborative process is so important to me.

You would love the idea of a double daybed, until you would want to sit every day and watch tv. or read.

They're too deep, feet don't touch the floor, they need PILES of pillows to be remotely comfy. They are fine and great in a teen lounge pad : ) and the girlfriends can sprawl with their homework and tik tok on their phones. Just sayin......lol.

A super comfy sofa has an inside seat depth of no more than 25" and that is comfy as well for a six foot plus male.

More than that is a back breaker unless you are lying down.

"Well. I live in ROCHESTER, girlfriend. No, at that point it's no longer free."

Jan I would pay you to participate in my other thread about the "great room" (living/dining space). How much would you charge for the type of post you gave for free in this thread (and so many others) with the layout drawing and the example pieces?

I can't speak for anyone else, but the drawing of Jan's that I think works has no bed and the TV is across from the 84" sofa. No L shaped sofa in that drawing.

"You and everyone else love Jan's drawing,:.......but you didn't read?

" have you taken note of her prudent question - where's the TV? The plan doesn't yet completely check all of your boxes. "

Do you see the drawing.....and if you read the text, you'd realize the tv is

DIRECTLY across from the couch, over low bookcases between tall ( the black bar on right ) Also had a source for all the book case components.

The "WHERE is the tv referred to Kendrahs idea, which I showed at SCALE and no,,,,,there is no good place for tv. : :

NO NO NO

to this........ below: ) and it is unbalanced and listing way heavy to left - doesn't work "on paper" and won't in person.

Kendrah the TV in Jan's drawing is across from the sofa.

I respectfully disagree with what you said about me wanting the sun, moon, and stars in my living room and not being willing to make sacrifices. My current plan for the living/dining is simple and straightforward. I just need help picking out each element and making sure it all works together. I am totally open to the idea of a light creamy paint color as opposed to the tan-brown color I wanted. I'm flexible as to whether there are bookshelves in there. I am trying very hard and not finding the right things (carpet, lighting, paint color, furniture, etc.)

The room you posted that you said might be LL Bean - yes I like the way the room as a whole hits my eye / initial gut reaction, and yes there are specific elements of the room that I like. Is any of that helpful for designing my current home? I'm not sure. I've already said my dream home would have wood walls and wood ceiling, and I like plaid. I don't think we're going to be covering the walls and ceiling with wood in our current home and I know I'll incorporate plaid. I thought a brown-ish wall color could maybe give me the same cozy feeling of wood walls, but I'm receptive to the advice from multiple designers that I shouldn't do it in the main space. I can still have darker colors in the other rooms. In your photo I also like that they left the brick fireplace alone. In my other threads I've talked about my fireplace and what I don't like about the bricks - the whitewash treatment and the strange carvings. But I don't think creating a big brick fireplace is the right solution for my current home. Link to fireplace thread: Ideas to change these fireplace bricks

When I describe my style, often people get hung up on one single word or element instead of taking in all of the words and forming a picture of the combination. Maybe I shouldn't have used "LL Bean" in my list of inspiration words. The reason I included it is because when I think of LL Bean I think it represents one of the elements I'm looking for, which I also included in my style description - "rustic but done in a preppy way."

Posting one more time the link to my great room thread in case anyone reading this is totally confused and wondering what this has to do with a den library guestroom: Help me envision this "great room" - all aspects of interior design

Hmm, the comment I was replying to just above is gone.

In the deleted post Kendrah you actually said something else I want to comment on: "there are going to be some designers that simply are not going to say yes to everything you want because it is so out of the norm and they feel it won't look good in the end, such as wall to wall carpeting and dark paint. You are likely saying, this is what I want, how can I make it look good, and they are thinking, the things you want can't look good."

I think you're right. I know full well that wall-to-wall carpet is currently considered to be an abomination. I knew I'd get resistance from most designers about wanting it anywhere but bedrooms and walk-in closets. (The designer who came yesterday actually didn't express any problem with the carpet idea.) I also know that the "obvious" / intuitive paint choice for the main space is a very light neutral. I myself was assuming it's what we'd have to do in order to downplay the ugly ceiling and ugly trim. But then I had an epiphany about the darker / brown accent walls in my home (described in my other thread) and that's what sent me down the path of hoping maybe a brown-ish wall color would work out. I keep being told "that brown-ish wall color will look very heavy." And I'm thinking "well I don't want it to feel 'light and airy' and soft and ethereal so... maybe heavy is not a bad thing?"

But exactly the way you put it - "this is what I want, how can I make it look good" - is a pretty accurate summary of how and why I think a lot of clients approach an interior designer. Yes it is perfectly reasonable for the answer to be "it is impossible for that to look good, there is NO WAY to do it." But it's also reasonable to hope that a professional designer would be able to take in these constraints or conditions or elements that are not to their personal taste and still be able to create something cool. Designers, please don't flip out over this comparison but - like on Chopped. You get a basket of ingredients you wouldn't have picked out yourself, but you have to be creative and make the best you can out of what you're given to work with. And sometimes it comes out amazing even though you would never have thought to combine those ingredients.

Plaidpine, that's a really good analogy. In my limited experience, there are two kinds of designers. One kind has their own particular style. You hire them because you want THEIR look. The other kind is your "Chopped" designer. They channel your preferences, filtered through the actual house you have, into something that fits you but is much better than you could have done yourself.

We were lucky to find the second kind of designer when we remodeled our kitchen. I chose her because she had 4 extremely different kitchens in her design presentation. And she had a story for each of how the different looks had been driven by client preferences and client needs (in one kitchen, a physical handicap that drove an extreme Univeral Design focus). If you are still looking for a professional designer, look for someone who has a really varied portfolio. That's one big indicator of someone who is providing client-focused design, not copy/pasting her particular look onto your space.

She said from the great room thread.......

One

"rustic but done in a preppy way."

Two

"I think the only help I need over there ( dining end of the room ) is selecting the light fixture".

Three

"I know it's always recommended to pick paint last but we need to paint first, then install new carpet, then furnish."

Four

"We want to keep the tile and replace the wall-to-wall carpet with one that blends better with the overall feel we're trying to create. I would like input and examples regarding what kind of carpet would look best."

Someone else said

"there are going to be some designers that simply are not going to say yes to everything you want because it is so out of the norm and they feel it won't look good in the end, such as wall to wall carpeting and dark paint."

Five:

"But in person having 2 chairs facing the big wall, hanging out into the center of the room looks and feels completely wrong."

____________________________________________

To the cut/pasties above:

The look and feel you want, and what you HAVE, and what y.o.u. have determined you would like to keep.

You are hamstringing yourself, and hamstringing any designer with taste and brains. Why? Because the 1980 tile does not speak to your "rustic/but preppy" concept, it screams 1980 town house/contemporary and builder grade, ordinary, uninspiring tile. The go with anything builder grade wall to wall is essentially same thing. The next selection is one of two things. It puts you in a poorhouse, or it is more of the same, in a different color.

Read that sentence again, p.l.e.a.s.e.

"I think the only help I need is picking a light.....

Really? What are the table/chairs?Is there yet a living room concept that would drive the selection of table and chairs?

This is called controlling process and every designer will resist this. You are the passenger who selects a destination, not the driver of the bus that takes you there.

Paint and THENNNNNNNNN........Big. Fat. no.

This is referred to as painting your way into corners. Into making your design vision, or a designers life , impossible. Paint can be mixed to mere fractions of any hue. The MARKETPLACE of fabrics/carpet cares less that it shall honor your selection. You will have severely limited your fabric selections, your carpet selections. It is simply not good process, unless you like "white" walls. You should not resist good process, especially since "I've zero talent for this, only passion" comes into play.

...................and finally......

Having two chairs facing a wall feels wrong. I assume this might have meant facing a couch. Facing people seated on the couch. Possibly a room that suggests a guest, a place to set a drink/snack and converse, especially since there will not be tv in this room, only you, others , food, and drink. Music perhaps, and , reading and chat. And the v.i.e.w,

To sum up? Designers know the market. They KNOW that your desired look goes best to a wood floor, and a far better value for your money. They feel the burden of a fiduciary responsibility to use your dollars for a good value to YOU. They know the cost of broadloom, anything decent, is high. Beautiful is higher yet. They know that the broadloom market has responded to the loathing of same by the consumer.......AND that has translated to very luxurious wools produced, that are actually designed and milled with the final intent to be a custom size area rug. That is what is driving the "wall to wall, broadloom industry." Exception? The big box...home Depot, Loews.....where designers do not go, and especially not for your LOOK.

To end( mercifully) and to anyone who followed, along with the OP.:

A designer knows the market. The fabrics, the carpeting, furnishings. She /he has mixed more paint than you will , in 20 lifetimes.

Can you reinvent a contemporary 1980 townhouse to preppy/rustic.cozy/den like/a little DAPPER ? Probably and definitely! But NOT with the roadblocks you are placing in front of the designer and yourself with an attempt to control not only the good process replaced with your disastrous process , but right down to the selections that will compete with, dilute, and be in opposition to what you really WANT. That would mean.....you ADJUST your rustic/preppy/modern/dapper quite a lot versus attempting to put square pegs into round holes..

The designers are not "fail" here. ..........the roadblocks, you and partner, could well be just that. Standing in front of the very bus that may get you exactly!!! what you didn't know you desperately w.a.n.t.e.d. You can all yell and scream now.

|Why is she putting these pictures here......?

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Because they go to my previous post. A man client in love with his decades old /matched Stickley furnishings, in an awkward nook bedroom. A room he wanted white and unable to take the Heriz area rug he also desired......and he got none of what he wanted but he did get what he l.o.v.e.s. He got a gorgeous paint color that sets off a painting he adores, a paint color that swallows the dark and matched of the furniture and makes the room feel BRIGHTER and larger than any white paint ever could make this room feel. ......spell l.o.v.e of result.

What is on the floor in any of these, and while none are exactly DAPPER/rustic/modern/preppy, they are all dimmer and moodier and include books, a cozy feel....are they all TAN/MEDIUM Tan...?

Since I am on a roll? Here's a process visual.

To do what you want, and within the restriction of wall to wall carpet? You would need a truly exemplary broadloom ,with a price tag to match. Something with an obvious texture, and a feel of casual luxury.......that makes you want to touch it.

So lets say you start with things you might like and what MIGHT that carpet be?

You make a mood.........of stuff...."things" you might like that go to the dapper/preppy bookish whatever......not too hot cold porridge

The WALL TO WALL THING.....

what will that look like with the stuff -it has to be great. Has to have some masculine crunch and take my eye off a popcorn ceiling in a 1980 build.

Then you say......mmmmmm here's my stuff, my plaid, my really cool rustic chairs, my wall of ready to go cabinets awaiting books, a stone cocktail table...blahblah

Now what? Tan walls? Nope.....

Now......I'm starting to see how it doesn't need to be TAN, that's on the damn floor!

and while you say to yourself....I MIGHT be able to live with this?!

It is far, far better, and far less expensive to put all of it on a hardwood floor.

And that my dear, is why your process literally sucks:) and will get you in serious trouble, take you directly to "nowhereville" and continued spinning, no matter the designer or you do it all by your lonesome..

Its FEEL first, fabrics first selections/textures, metal stone wood,linen, leather ,velvet,patterned, plain what color ,content/look of carpet and what color carpet, then walls......DEAD LAST SELECTION.

Yellow Brick road trip starts with mood....without the paint.

It begins that you must be able to SIT, and that begins with a furnishing plan of what fits, where, to suit function...to be followed with what brings it to life

any and all of which?Better on a hardwood floor with a room size appropriate area rug:)

and it could be as little as a cool chair that "sparks" a room....and all the rest.

BUT I STILLLLL want toast paint!!!......then get it and get it with a rug and wood floor, so you do not end with a turd colored room.

Wow, Jan, you have proposed some awesome ideas! Love the palette and the textures!

I agree that it starts with what you want to DO in the room, then the FEEL of what you want the room to be, and then you do a furniture plan. Fabrics, colors, patterns, furniture selections, then rugs, window treatments, LIGHTING. As has been said, and ALL designers will agree--paint color is DEAD LAST.

This discussion was productive until I answered Kendrah's question about how another room in my home is coming along. I should have simply said "I'll update that other discussion thread soon." And kept this discussion about the den.

The cherrypicked references to my other thread are only going to cause confusion. There have been so many misrepresentations, misunderstandings, inaccuracies, and wild assumptions with no basis in reality.

For me, this den discussion is more about space planning than style. I said in my third post in this discussion "I could do the bookshelves on the sconce wall with a desk nestled in, and also bookshelves along the left wall with a sofa bed nestled in and have the TV on the right wall." I also brought up the idea of shelves on both the long walls and hoped it wouldn't make the room too narrow. The space plan Jan drew showed me that my ideas will work and I really like how it looks in the drawing.

I'm now more convinced than ever that I will not be able to convey my style to a designer. It's frustrating. Over and over I am finding that people latch onto small parts of my description and miss the big picture. I'll just say one final thing regarding style - yes part of my style is "dated 80s contemporary townhouse." I bought an 80s contemporary townhouse on purpose. That's not my entire style, but it's a piece of it. It can be done in a cool way.

You aren't looking, reading , you aren't listening :) It is because you think a designer should read your mind right to the very last punctuation mark, or dot atop an i, or the cross of a t.

If you know it can be cool, if you know to the last cross of the T, where to source it.....what it should be......?

Then you DO it, over and across all you very own roadblocks.

That's just some brutal truth and you are fine to go ahead and scream.....that you are so special with tastes and wants so very special and different than what is even available to be had IN the marketplace? Let us know where you are in a couple of years.:)

It is to say, "I bought a dwelling that a marketplace and my picky factor will mightily resist my effort to make it preppy, Dapper, plaid masculine unless I budge, and I am not budging, but I can DO it. You should, because all any designer could sense within a couple of meetings, a handful of attempts to guide you, help you in any way? That is just a path to "Brokeville, USA / wheel spinning/work a tail off" and he/she still will not accurately have read your mind. You won't want the bill, either.

Good luck....

Jan I read and re-read every post multiple times. (Then people delete and alter and take out large sections of their posts and some of my replies end up looking out of place as a result...) But anyway, to say I am not reading or listening is just so inaccurate. Let me ask you about reading - do you remember reading "I know I can't do this on my own" and also reading "I know this can be cool"? You take those two statements and come up with: "If you know it can be cool, if you know to the last cross of the T, where to source it.....what it should be......? Then you DO it. Alone." Where have I ever said I know where to source?? Is it really inconceivable to you that a client can have a picture in their mind of a style, a combination of elements, and to them it could be so cool, but they don't know where to source from and don't feel confident enough to do the project on their own?

As I have repeatedly stated in my other thread: I want to plan almost every element before I pull the trigger and start buying. I ALWAYS start with function of a space. I need to select flooring, furnishings, light fixtures, wall color, etc. It all has to connect and relate, I have not and will not go off half-cocked. I will PLAN the cohesive design and then work towards the end goal in the correct order. That's why we have nothing yet. No furniture, no replaced carpet, no fresh paint job, etc. Because we will not start until we know what "finished" looks like.

You just described impossible. Due to the pecking order of your process. This

"Where have I ever said I know where to source?? Is it really inconceivable to you that a client can have a picture in their mind of a style, a combination of elements, and to them it could be so cool, but they don't know where to source from and don't feel confident enough to do the project on their own?"

Answer? Yes..............due to 33 years of experience that you do not possess, a knowledge of the market, that you do not have. Along with hundreds of happy clients over 33 years, whose minds I have read.

What separates them from you? Everything you have said to now.

Much of design is a designer giving a client what they did NOT know........they wanted so very much.

A thousand images won't help you none will be exactly IT, yours, You don't have the exact words, there may not be enough words

Design is a process and it is malleable

OK I appreciate your response Jan. So I'd like to ask, do you think a truly collaborative process between a client and a designer is not the way to reach the client's goal? To continue with the Chopped analogy from my previous post... if the client is involved in the design process, does it make for a situation of "too many cooks in the kitchen"?

Other designers please feel free to weigh in on this. :)

There is a chef, and a sous chef........for a REASON.

You're involved.

What I say to the point and to clients?

If you tell me you want to go to San Francisco? Off we go! If you wind up in Tijuana? that willl be your fault, not mine. Side trips are fine....musing is good. I am in charge of the destination. If you don't get there? It will be alack of communication, in combination with you holding/grabbing the wheel of the bus, stepping on the imaginary brake, as I drive( see your other thread with note as to Trafalgar,.....

The communication aspect really does have me concerned. I've seen very clearly in these houzz discussion threads that apparently I am terrible at communicating. Maybe I am not able to explain the finished look I want, and I am certainly not able to find images that represent it. This is why my husband and I keep coming back to the idea that we'll have to give up and sell. When you know you can't do it on your own, and you find out you also can't explain it well enough for someone to help make it happen... I guess there are two options for us - DIY and be less than thrilled with the amateur result, or sell and go back to living in furnished vacation rentals. Which I very much enjoyed.

Add controlling to terrible communication, In FACT..... call it the big problem.

Buy a boat, furnished, and take it around the world: )

The next house will be the same problem. Rather pointless.

PS,,,, There ARE no exact representations of YOUR room, real or imagined. There are images to be interpreted and tweaked. There IS no combo of your 1980 Townhouse online that will be preppy/Dapper/plaid/bookish ,,,,,,because images move with time. They move to represent the current market..........and one largely driven by mass market influences.

West Elm......RH Modern.....lowly Pottery Barn.......Arhaus........and more.

Not the same homes, not the same clients not the same wishes and wants....not even the same town. Same designer,.....e.v.e.ry.o.n.e wants something.

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@plaidpine this forum is not real life. People type and respond in ways that aren’t always kind, appropriate, or how they would interact in person. Tone is hard to read and words seem to get lost. It happens over and over on these forums and often people posting are left feeling they’ve done something wrong. When this happens it often comes down to k e of three reasons . The original poster did do soemthing wrong like not give enough important details truly needed. Two the original poster isn’t being receptive enough to pros and pros don’t like it, they think they know best and simply don’t in all situations. And three the people commenting are right and the original poster can’t see they are making a big mistake as they are too invested in their idea.

I just read the whole thread and I need to go get more caffeine!

Is this the look/feel you want in the home?

This photo on Houzz is from 2013. Nothing wrong with that, but it seems you want a look that most people have moved on from ...

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Similar colors from 2012, but a bit more modern.

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2012

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As to comment from W.C Hopeful....

Actually, this is site is VERY, very real life.........and it is part and parcel how people wind up here in threads that begin with ......"I hate what I just bought/did/created/ HELP ME!!!"

Call those the trail of tears threads. But.....with a search? You will find some who listened, took advice with good humor, were willing to try, and within their budgets often very limited, in homes badly designed from get go? End in total happy land.

If you believe you will find anyplace, free as air....with more help, more information given freely and generously on more aspects of home? You will not find it. It doesn't exist, and it surely does not in one place. Not Instagram, not Pinterest......it's here, free , take or leave as you wish.

Jan, nothing you’ve said disputed what I did. But, while your advice is often spot on, shows one of my points about how info is conveyed in text.

Well, not the touchy feely, everything is great gal, am I ? ! Nope! lol

Reminds me of a gal who owned a fabulous boutique here. Shoes, clothes, accessories, SHOES!!

She moved the business to a new locale, sent a postcard.....

"We're moving! Same great SHOES and stuff, same BAD attitude!"

Never laughed so hard over a post card......

And you don’t need to be. Gets the job done! But let’s be honest, not every poster has a thick skin , and some are just hoping for a bit of easy, likely generic help, and understanding to their plight. I also think I in many expert roles people who are experts forget that the regular person doesn’t know as much so has questions and concerns that seem useless or obvious to the expert.

Jan, are you actually in OP's geographic area?

Lol......Same town, probably twenty minute away..could be ten minutes.....

believe it. Because it is a SMALL world, chispa.

Love this......

" just hoping for a bit of easy, likely generic help, and understanding to their plight......."

The problem for pros, unlike the gen pop? We know there is rarely "Just do this" .

I just want to know how to fix....this.

"I just want a really pretty great room, beachy, coastal feel, sort of Serena and Lily, with these two huge dark brown leather reclining couches"

We skip the impossible,.....quite often and it falls to the wonderful kindness of gen pop.: )

chispa you asked if those images are the look I want. I would say no, but the color of the wallpaper in the first photo and the darker wall color in the third photo are along the lines of what I had in mind. There is a Sherwin Williams color called Camelback I'm really liking. It's considered a "dated" color now, but who knows, maybe as this warming trend continues in interior design, in 5-10 years it could once again be a sought-after type of color.

How long are you planning to be in this home? It’s yours, should represent you and what you like. Paint is cheap big picture and easily changed. Make it what you want.
Mak

@User - You need a good gay man friend in his 60's who will ride your design roller coaster with you and translate your needs to his designer friends who will hook you up and make your vision happen! (My uncle was this man. His tastes were his own entirely and his designer friends helped with fine tuning and execution. Bless his soul, his pocket book, and the uniquely designed spaces he left behind!)

It would be great if you could find some design mags from the 1980s to help you along.

Agreed, you need not consider whether something is currently in trend. Nothing you want is going to be and it doesn't matter.

It was helpful to see the name of an actual paint color you like. I don't think the words you are using necessarily translate. Examples of pieces of furniture, colors, etc are what will matter.

You are naming two pretty disparate things--80s townhouse and rustic preppy (summarizing from this thread which I gather is not entirely accurate). Since that's a pretty unusual combo, maybe it would help if you gathered examples of each style to share with a designer, or with Houzz. Show us the particular elements of 80s style that you value, explain as fully as possible what you like and what functions each element fills for you. And then again for the rustic side. That would give a lot more guidance on how to distill these competing ideas into something that works for you.

You "must have tan/CAMEL walls, then I can pick a carpet". Not your way........

what EVERY designer is telling you?

You need to do the walls with more interest on the floor, and more a look that goes to your words, and you'd do a w.o.o.d. floor with a rug....

It's a money look....vs. MEH!

Then.....

I can't live without my books.....but the book case can't disappear onto the tan walls. It's the me in the ME.

We need to sit.....

You can't have all your way, your backwards process in a good way with YOUR method, your words. Welllllll you can. It's your house...

It is one thing to wrap yourself in tan. It's another to "tan" your way to a flat room yawn

Get with the designers who might know what you do not, and have repeated a version of those words.

Yes, it's warm, Yes it's SW Camelback. No it isn't broadloom loop. It's a richer look. A better value floor when you ditch to an air bb and sell the place.

Start "ass backwards" the right way for your look. . Floor and walls

then finish

Don't even attempt this process from an I phone. Use a lap top

How do you feel about 1980s Ralph Lauren fashion ads- you know the ones with plaids, tweeds, earthy colors, and models who are more naturally styled... LIke this ad for Ralph Lauren Lauren perfume. Or this one. That is where my imagination went when reading about your challenges communicating your style. And then I was reminded of this article I read awhile back on House & Garden. I wonder if any of the images in it might feel similar to what you're envisioning for your home? And I don't know if you peruse House & Garden much, but it is a favorite source of inspiration and beauty for me! I find English style to be more colorful and collected and less prone to chasing trends... here is a recent article on brown color schemes!

Hope this is helpful!

@User don't you sometimes wish you could hook up a USB cable to your mind and download your vision? I kind of want to play 20 questions to pick your mind because I'm enticed by what the look is you are going for.

Do any of these pictures have one element that you would want in your room and if so, what is it? I suspect most will not have any. But why not try. I love that you gave us camelback for the walls. Any pics of furniture that you like? Any pics of rug ideas that you like?

"You "must have tan/CAMEL walls, then I can pick a carpet". Not your way........"

Jan... that is the opposite of what I've said and the way you wrote it looks like you are representing it as a quote from me. I have repeatedly and consistently said the reverse of that "quote" - I will not finalize wall color until I have my carpet selected. The paint will be done first, but it won't be done until we know what carpet we're getting. Ideally I'd like to have at least some furniture and other elements picked out before finalizing paint color. I have never said I "must have" any wall color. I said I was dreaming of tan/camel/brown but am very open to the light neutral that is the consensus recommendation of the pros (for the main space.) I also noted that a light neutral is what I was assuming from the start I'd have to do.

I think one reason I've been wanting a wood-like wall color is because I have been living in an empty house for 5 months. It makes you want coziness. If I had plenty of wood furniture, bookshelves, etc. maybe I wouldn't be feeling I need such a deep, warm wall color for the main space? The kitchen is white (not true white, LRV low 70s "white" that's very creamy) and I love it. The cabinets are wood, so that probably has a lot to do with why the light neutral feels perfectly cozy in here.

I am totally open to picking paint last. I definitely understand the wisdom of it. My goal from the start has been to select as much as possible before actually pressing play on the plan.

" what EVERY designer is telling you? You need to do the walls with more interest on the floor, and more a look that goes to your words, and you'd do a w.o.o.d. floor with a rug.... "

Jan... The first design team seemed to have the typical reaction to wall-to-wall carpet. As in, not their favorite thing. When they asked what I was thinking for flooring I said something along the lines of "you're going to hate this answer but I love wall-to-wall carpet. You can be honest and tell me how much you hate carpet." And they were like "well, it's not our favorite but if you're going to have it at least the one you have is the best possible look and color, it's light and neutral. I think it can work."

The second designer was the one who pointed out the carpet is straight up purple. She basically said "carpet is great but this carpet will never work with the color palette you have in mind." Like I said earlier in this discussion, it was worth the hundreds of dollars we paid for that consult just for that one bit of insight because she was so right. It would have been a disaster to keep the violet-gray undertone carpet as the first designers suggested.

The third designer (remote from Denmark) did insist the entire main floor must be wood flooring. He and I agree that real wood was the only way we'd do it. Not LVP or laminate or even engineered. My husband and I truly, sincerely, seriously considered doing the wood flooring. We decided against it.

The fourth designer expressed zero problem with wall-to-wall carpet. Didn't bat an eye when I told her it's what we want. Do you see how each designer had their own unique take on the carpet?

"Don't even attempt this process from an I phone. Use a lap top" I barely use my phone at all and certainty not for anything on the internet. I'm on my laptop. :)

Hope - you asked "How do you feel about 1980s Ralph Lauren fashion ads- you know the ones with plaids, tweeds, earthy colors, and models who are more naturally styled"

Yes! Literally one of the things I've used to explain part of my inspiration is "town-and-country gentlemenswear." This is a quote from my other thread where I explained in depth about the style I have in mind: "one of the ways I think about this "dapper" style goal is like how a stylish town-and-country gentleman might combine a shirt, a jacket/suit, a tie, a pocket square, and maybe additionally a vest or a sweater, a hat, a belt or suspenders, and socks and shoes. That dapper ensemble is kind of what I'm trying to create. In a palette like late fall." And I'm picturing the combination of the leather shoes/boots, the plaid pocket square or tie or socks, the tweedy vest, wool jacket, hopefully you get the idea. My words might lead to confusion so it may be better to look at google images of town-and-country gentlemenswear. Some of the photos that come up (at least in my search) give a general idea of the concept. I want to reiterate this is just one piece of inspiration, there will be parts of my home that don't perfectly fit this exact concept. But it's an important part of the bigger picture. Thanks for your post Hope!

If there is anyone who knows how to make a home look like a dapper men's suit it is Gil Schaffer, Mr Bow Tie himself. Note he often uses wall-to-wall carpet. The first pic is from a formerly boring 1990s home.

Kendrah I can give feedback about those photos you posted. I think that's a good way to clarify what I'm drawn to (just probably annoying for you to have to scroll up and locate which photo I'm referring to.) If you want to ask any specific questions feel free to!

Image #1: I love and need black in small doses, but don't care for it in large swaths. So I love a thin black frame on a piece of wall art, or black as part of a light fixture, but I wouldn't do a large piece of black furniture. I like mixed material leather chairs with footrests, not exactly that one but it's in the ballpark I guess you could say. I think I like the arms on that chair. The image is kind of blurry.

Image #2: Even though it's not the exact color palette I want to do, I like the way the color palette makes me feel. And it's an example of a very light wall working fine for me. Of course picture moldings would be completely out of place in my home. I love the shape of the lampshade.

Skipping #3

Image #4: That wall color looks similar to Camelback :)

Image #5: I generally like the wood tone of the chair (although I do notice the blotchy spots in that photo.) Green is my favorite color. My husband's too. But the green on that chair is too bright for us.

Image #6: I like wood + leather chairs. Again this one is not The One but just thought it's worth mentioning I like wood and leather chairs. I've been worried about buying one with all-wood arms because I think it would probably be uncomfortable.

Image #7: I don't want nailheads / tacks on my furniture and the bright blue color of that chair fabric would not work with my design idea.

Almost all of the photos show plaid carpet. While I love plaid and in a different house would totally do it for a carpet, in this home I can't draw too much attention to the floor, away from the view.

I would say none of the rooms really appeal to me.

I'm typing this at 1:00am and I've been up since 7:00am so I'm tired bordering on delirious. I probably did a terrible job.

Oh no. Now there will be more confusion because as I was typing my post about the earlier set of photos Kendrah posted, she was posting another set of photos, which now appears directly above my post about her other batch of photos. The Gil Schaffer photos are much better than the other group Kendrah. I can say more about them after I get some sleep.