What are you doing with all the milk containers? I'm confused.

I wear reading glasses over my contacts for close work.

The milk containers are for a particular winter sowing technique, callirhoe.

I sow only vegetables. If you grew perennials you wouldn't need to sow annually. If it isn't fun maybe review what you do.

Dee, when I started winter sowing I was using milk jugs like you, but I didnt enjoy using the milkjugs and messing with taping the top. I also worried about seedlings cooking if the jug got too warm. And it's difficult to clearly see what's happening inside the jugs. I winter sow in regular pots now. The results are the same or better than with using milkjugs. I love sowing all different species of seeds and I love researching the germination requirements for every type of seed. I have several pots outside already, and I have about 20 kinds of seeds, stratifying in my fridge. They are in condemint cups with moisture, but not swimming in water. They experience the same cool moist conditions as the seeds in the pots outside. I think you will have a better experience sowing seeds if you stop using milkjugs. When I start seedpots under lights I use moisture domes like clear plastic bags, but outside the humidity is higher, and there's a risk of cooking the seedlings if they are under a dome. I think you could have a pleasent experience if you stop using milkjugs. Also the labeling is difficult with milkjugs because sharpie marker labels will fade by springtime. Many seed sowing groups stress using jugs, but they arent neccasarry.

"Many seed sowing groups stress using jugs, but they aren't necessary."

Absolutely. Until I came to these forums I'd never even heard of the milk carton business, nor the term 'winter sowing'. Seeds have been sown in autumn here for years just using normal pots.

I enjoy it.

No, no, no, lol. You will pry milk jugs out of my cold, dead, soil-covered hands lol! I think milk jugs are the perfect wintersowing container, (trust me, I've experimented with a LOT of different containers, including pots) and once those seeds have been sown, that's when it gets fun.

I think some of you misunderstood me. I don't have *problems* with my system of sowing seeds - like I said, I've been doing this for 25 years. And I do sow vegetables and perennials along with herbs and annuals etc. And I usually have overall great results. And like most gardeners, I find the whole... I can't think of the word - the whole "process" of how a seed works? I find that miraculous and awe-inspiring.

I just don't like the actual, physical process of putting the seeds into soil.

I think many of us love gardening, but have parts of it that we don't necessarily enjoy. But that doesn't mean we give up gardening. Some people don't like to weed. Some hate to water. Some people love planting bulbs while others don't. Some of us are terrified of pruning lol. Some people like lifting and storing dahlias while others don't, While some of us might just not do what we don't like - i.e buy new dahlia bulbs each year instead of lifting - I think most of us will do some of the less-fun stuff to get the garden we want. And so I lift dahlia bulbs and I sow seeds.

I was just curious if other people enjoyed sowing seeds, or if they do it for the results. If they, like me, somewhat begrudgingly get the job done because the end result - a beautiful garden - is worth it, or if they, like rosa and beesneeds, enjoy the process. That's all. Just wondering.

:)

Dee

I love doing it but hate my results. Years of failures! I think I will go back to the jug method. It is a way of controlling the amount of rain. I think my high failure rate is due to heavy rains washing away or rotting seeds.

I am with you. I dislike sowing. I also dislike thinning and pricking out. I even hate writing out labels… but I love the results. I rven enjoy the somewhat randomness that happens when one thing fails and another exceeds all expectations and I end up giving away s ton of seedlings because I can’t possibly use them all.

I like using regular pots because I can look at them every day and clearly see what has germinated, without peeking through small viewing holes. I haven't had good results using milkjugs when sowing seeds that take 2 years to germinate, like Lilium seeds. I thought I had a bright idea and after I stopped using milkjugs I bought over a hundred clear plastic tubs with covers. I didn't realize it at the time, but the tubs were a cheap type of plastic that becomes brittle after a season of being outdoors. I now use pots made of a durable plastic that will last for years. I don't experience very much soil compaction, but sometimes if I have doubts I place a coffee filter, dry sphagnum or leaves in the bottom of the pot before filling it with soil. I fill them to about a half inch below the rim. I think the majority of my failures were caused by me not searching for the germination information regarding each and every species. I only just discovered recently that Viola species need darkness for germination. Ive never had good results with sowing Violas in the past, and now I know why.

Oh no, kitasei! That's the exact opposite of me - and I'm so sorry you don't get good results! Well, as you can tell from my posts above, I am a big fan of the milk jugs lol. I do feel there is a bit more control with the enclosed containers.

Markay - yes! I too dislike thinning! I think that's one reason why I dislike the sowing part. Since I don't like thinning, I am very deliberate in where I place my seeds in the jugs. I use a tweezer and line them up in rows. This is time consuming and tedious but it eliminates the need for thinning, and also helps keep me from nurturing weeds lol. I figure if the seedling is in the line it is more likely the seed I planted and not a weed! There are few seeds I just scatter in the jug - snapdragons (I think) come to mind. Those are just too darn small to even use the tweezers with!

Jay I kinda like having to look through the holes to see the seeds. I find it kind of exciting, that anticipation. I've used those clear plastic tubs as little beds for things like lettuce and short little carrots, and yes, they do get brittle over time. And I can see the milk jugs being difficult for plants that need long germination - they do tend to get wet and mossy. The only thing I've done like that were aquilegia, and I took the covers off the first year, and just left the bottom halves to germinate without covers for the second year. I had decent success but never did any more two-year seeds.

Markay I tend to give away a lot of seedlings. Every year I say I am going to sow less, but then I always worry about germination, so I sow more than I need. So then of course every seed germinates!

:)

Dee

Dee, instead of tweezers, I put the seeds on a porclain plate and carefully push them into the pot of soil. In my experience, I don't dread preparing and using milkjugs, like I used to. My seed sowing is more enjoyable now.

That is A LOT of seeds, though Dee. I probably do a hundred (ish) varieties over the course of a year (the bulk of my sowing occurs in September/October) and some pots are multi-year projects but nothing like what looks like thousands of seeds). Sometimes, I only sow half a dozen of each variety because of space issues. I have filled up the available space with pots of seedlings, only for the awful realisation that each pot, containing at least 20 seeds, will need pricking out into individual 7cm pots...while every inch of space is already full. There are times I am glad of the fails.

I did the milk jugs thing and hated it though. Fiddling around with containers I felt I had no control over ...which went green and murky over a long season. And I have spent too many years with inadequate pots, labels and actual space which totally limited my enjoyment of a process...but this is pretty much the same with everything (cooking springs to mind).

For a lot of the annuals, I nearly always try to sow in situ. I have several nursery beds at the allotment for raising biennials and tender annuals while all the hardy annuals, flowers and vegetables, are sown where they are to grow, direct in the ground...although this is not without its risks and issues.

My major gardening detestation is irrigation. This is always the aspect I feel the most anxious about (and usually results in my numerous fails). I hate that breathless rush upon discovering too many wilted plants...which happens a lot with pot gardens and greenhouse culture as it absolutely has not been possible to automate a system with so many variables and differing water needs.

For many years I started seeds in regular flats, the kind that come with their own plastic covers. If thinning was needed, I cut of the unwanted seedlings with small nail scissors at the soil line. If a group of seedlings was in a pot. I unpotted the mass, dropped it on a flat surface and, holing them by a leaf, transplanted. I had 40 grow lights in my basement and grew all manner of seedlings with great sucess including perennials and vegetables. I found the process fascinating and never bothered with milk jugs. That would make it tedious, I think.

I did jugs in the past. Used kitty litter ones instead of milk jugs. It was interesting, but not practical for how I garden. Stuff I used to winter sow in jugs now tends to just get broadcast where I wanted it to grow.

I tend to use a lot of caps and little greenhouse cages now. I sow a lot of stuff in the little cells. Flowers, herbs, veggies. Some stuff gets started in a bigger pot and then split up. Like I will start 4-5 tomato seed in one pot, then later split and repot up. I don't do much mass planting and pricking out anymore, wasn't fond of it for what I was actually doing.

I do succession planting more than I used to. I have found better success with handling smaller batches of things rather than handling a big batch at once.

Seeing the little greenbacks push up is the best part for me but I do enjoy the process. Dee we both got a very late start this year and that made it feel a bit more of a chore than most years. I did less this year than some,

Since I only do perennials it is a longer wait. Seeds that can have a two yr. germination like Dictamnus carry less gratification in the short term but are very satisfying when they spring forth.

I generally use plug trays (cells) and then transplant to a larger plug tray size eliminating the need for pricking out. Mice are a problem so I keep the trays on metal shelves with round uprights in an unheated shed with windows. I add a layer of snow when they need moisture. Our snow was disappearing and then we got about 7" on Saturday.

I will do another spring seeding batch for ones that need warmth to germinate.

I am disliking it because for whatever reason almost nothing is germinating. I have been winter sowing in outdoor pots simple things like coneflowers & Rudbeckias, Plains Coreopsis, Rattlesnake Master & others because I need tough plants for large areas , semi- wild, and get almost nothing. Also have put in fridge/ freezer for weeks & tried those in small pots under grow lights but not doing anything. Then last fall I also made some small areas of soil out in the yard & sowed there , minimally sprinkled with fine soil, plus some just scattered & pressed in( of course birds may get them). I don’t have a good way to control watering out there though so it’s rain or not.
Not sure what I am doing wrong but it’s discouraging, all these pots with soil to clear up & start over.

The results of seed sowing are very gratifying. The actual process which for me involves getting down on my knees and hovering over a seed flat, is less pleasant.

Great to see my seed-grown perennial starts from last year growing vigorously in the borders.

Just a few random thoughts, as this is something I've been wondering about myself. Parts of it I really still like a lot but am definitely slowing down . Messing with the lights placement has never been fun, for one thing.

I love potting the litle seedlings up, it's like giving them their own homes (this year I sowed them way too thickly in a carelsss way, not sure why! And this year I've been able to do that outside in the sun (less snow) so that's been a joy. It's pretty minimal though (just herbs so far), compared to what I used to do so I guess I'm dragging my feet for some reason and miss the old enthusiasm, if that makes any sense.

For 3 years in June I've had a seed exchange with friends, so that is a motivator for sure as it's been very fun.

I don't do wintersowing the way some of you do, but I'll put some trays outside in April and now I've got my eye on one with pulsatilla and one with blue poppies hoping for germination.

Thanks everybody, it's so fun to hear others' experiences and share.

marmiegard_z7b That is distressing! Can you tell us the media you are using? Are you gathering seed from your garden or purchasing? If we have info perhaps we can help. Some seed requires light to germinate others (less often) darkness. Burying seed to deep can be a problem for many. So many factors come into play.

Dee, ohhhh, you start soooo MUCH there, I'd hate it too if I were to be tending a killzillion seedlings, lol. But, seriously, right from the time I was all of four years old I've loved sowing seeds, now a "few" decades on am still going at it with a passion. I though sow all too few perennials, but a few years back sent off a good sized order to Jelitto Seeds in Germany and now have some nice gaillardia, salvia, linum flavum 'Compactum' (Golden flax) and winecups to show for it. Otherwise, I tend to purchase established perennials and yes, is expensive, though love filling my gardens with all sorts of gems and these often drop seeds to give a bounty of seedings many of which display variation from the mother plant. I also have about 150 rose seedlings on the go, most of these will be culled to leave possibly about only ten or so, it's amazing just how many discards occur when crossing and combining the genes of two excellent named roses. As well have the gamut of spring sown annuals with many more to be sown shortly, then comes the dahlias to pot up, in which last year I as well culled many varieties, I'm a ruthless gardener, lol. Did wish to order up a good number of new dahlia releases, THOUGH dahlias have such a cult following that when dedicated websites first open for sales the choice ones sell out within minutes, my fingers were fast on the keyboard, but I missed out and then just said forget it to ordering any, lol.

I enjoy the process of sowing seeds and tending the seedlings. I grow in the house under lights for the most part. It's amazing to me how a speck of seemingly nothing germinates and grows on to provide food to feed us or beautiful flowers for our eyes and noses to enjoy, it is one of God's glories and it never gets old.

There is tinge of sadness associated with the seed sowing the last few years since I lost my gardening buddy, we used to comb over the catalogs (and later the webpages) to pick out what we wanted, talk it all out and place the orders, and I grew everything for her. I really miss that. Now it's just me and the computer screen, no one to plot and plan and dream summer flower dreams with anymore....

I have learned to pare down over the years. It's kind of stressful to have too many plants and nowhere to put them so I've learned to exercise restraint. I'll occasionally have a bit too much of something or other but not so much extra that I can't easily tuck them in somewhere.

I actually LOVE IT!! Our Winters are incredibly long here in the NW Illinois, and during the months of Jan-April, I sow seeds. I have done wintersowing for over 15 years and that's fun. I used milk jugs and tons of other containers, i.e. yogurt containers, cool whip containers, take out containers, strawberry containers, blueberry containers, small margarine containers - if it's plastic and it's gotta a lid, it's going to get used as a WS container! A few years ago, I did over 150 milk jugs. No more. Too much! Not fun! This year, I did 20 milk jugs and assorted plastic containers (another say, 10-15). I think it's fun and it keeps me gardening in the colder months.

I can’t say I enjoy it. But I absolutely LOVE watching their progress as they germinate and grow. And I love that it’s so inexpensive that I can give my extras to friends and neighbors.

Hello hello everyone! So sorry I neglected you all lol. But I have finally returned to my own darn thread and read through it again, and thank you so much for sharing your experiences and thoughts! I love to see how everyone does their thing and even more interesting is the differing view on certain "chores" or garden activities.

Like potting up. Ugh, another thing I hate lol. Well, hate is a strong word. I dislike it because for one thing, potting mix is expensive, and I do sow a lot of stuff. Secondly, I have so much to do and so little time, that potting up seedlings just seems like a waste of time to me. I'd rather leave them in their jugs as long as I can and use the time I would have been potting up to clean up beds and get the beds ready.

It's bad enough I already have to pot up so many dahlias (although I should stop kvetching about it because I'm so glad I have finally seemed to crack the tuber-overwintering process and have dahlias to plant!) I actually pot up some dahlias twice. The tubers with eyes get put in pots; those that I don't see eyes on yet I lay out in trays of potting mix and lightly cover and then pot up in real pots when I start seeing eyes. It's a constant search for pots to fit the tubers (they always seem just a bit too long for my pots lol) and then as I said, buying all the potting mix.

FrozeBudd you are indeed a ruthless gardener! I gasped when you said the 150 seedlings get culled down to 10! Yikes! I can't even get rid of one little seedling without pangs of guilt lol! I do the same with dahlias and wait too long to buy lol. I just tell myself it saves me money when they are all sold out. I was rather lazy with my tubers this season and didn't really divide the majority of them. They were dug up so late due to warm temps in fall, and I said eh, I'll just do it in spring. (I find it easier to see the eyes in spring anyway). Well spring is here and I'm so delayed because of all the rain and cool temps, I just said the heck with it. Unless it was an easy divide or split (and of course the majority of them were most definitely NOT - it's amazing how twisted together those tubers can get!) I've just been potting up the whole clump and will divide in the fall. Or next spring. Maybe...

And mxk you're doing pretty good too! - It's kind of stressful to have too many plants and nowhere to put them so I've learned to exercise restraint. I agree, it is stressful, but I still can't seem to exercise that restraint! I do think each year I am getting a tiny bit better, but it always seems no matter how resolved I am when I start sowing, as I stand there over the milk jug, with the seeds in my palm, I always throw in more than I planned "just in case" - just in case of poor germination, just in case our new wonky weather throws a 90-degree day in April at us, to be followed by a stretch of 4 30-degree days, just in case of crittters... but the fact that I am taking down two raised beds this year that last year held veggies shows that I did cut back at least on tomatoes. I think I only sowed 80 instead of 130. Just kidding, just kidding!

bellarosa you are indeed right on that point - there is NOTHING like opening a bag of potting mix in January or February! It's so wonderful. I have done winter-sowing workshops and I think my favorite part is when folks line up to fill their jugs, and I open the lids of the containers that I transport the potting mix in, and everyone sniffs and oohs and ahhs! And honestly I don't even mind the prep work for the jugs, or taping up and labeling etc. It is literally just the act of putting the seeds in that I don't really care for.

marmiegard I'm sorry to hear you are so discouraged! I hope you find out what the issue is and have better results!

mxk I'm so sorry about your loss. I know it's been hard for you the last couple of years, and I can certainly see why. It's hard to carry on any activity that one once shared with a lost friend or loved one. This might sound kind of trite but I'm sure she would want you to continue to find joy in it. I hope you can continue to try and maybe one day the memories won't be quite so painful, but a bit sweeter. <3

:)

Dee

^^ Thank you, Dee.