Sorbus aucuparia is borderline invasive here so not wild about it. A messy tree but entertaining with drunk robins in late winter :-)

The common rowan is pretty invasive. I have them volunteering all over my yard and I haven't seen one in any of my neighbor's yards. You can get an American Rowan, which is native. It's Sorbus Americana. They are pretty, smallish trees. The American one has orange berries, the European one red berries.

So it sounds like if it is Sorbus Americana it is a good bet, but not if it is Sorbus Aucuparia - ? The cultivar is "Cardinal Royal", which is S. Aucuparia. Drat.

I'm just back from Wales where it's one of the few tough, hardy species native on the mountainsides. Does well all over the UK and not invasive. Tremendous berries (which I would call orange rather than red) and an important wildlife tree. But that's here in its native range. There are attractive Asian species with pink, red or white berries and finely divided foliage.

I LOVE the sorbus tribe above all other small garden trees. I even manage to grow 3 on my allotment (.cashmeriensis, hupehensis and commixta). Fantastic trees for every season, with the added extra of potent folk magic (I named my eldest Rowan, most especially for the deep lore and mythology associated with these most beautiful trees). I have never come across one I didn't like, even including the larger whitebeams, and service trees.

As a bonus, they are apopmixic, not requiring fertilisation to come true from seed so, you could grow an arboretum from seed

What is meant by "common rowan?" There are roughly a 100 species in the genus, so I'd do some research before making a decision on which one might be best for you. I grow S. aucuparia & S. alnifolia, both of which have performed well here in west-central WI. S. alnifolia (Korean Mountain Ash) is quite beautiful and my favorite of the two.

Floral, did you visit Bodnant?

Different locations and with different plant responses :-)

" you could grow an arboretum from seed "

This ease of propagation and seeding by wildlife is why it is currently on my state's Monitor list for invasive species and why it is considered invasive in multiple other states.

S. pseudohupehensis 'Pink Pagoda' might be a choice.

Maackia, I wasn't near Bodnant and I was walking all day every day rather than sight seeing.

I grew S vilmoriniana for several years but it never produced more than a few berries so I cut it down eventually. A successful one is a lovely thing.

I have yet to see a single seedling from any of my (seed grown) specimens, GG, in 2 decades of growing. Nor is it known as remotely problematic (unlike ailanthus, common ask, robinia, , birch, sycamore, sambucus or hawthorn, all of which are enthusiastic pioneer colonisers. And nothing like the worrisome rhododendron ponticum....but the UK is a very different culture (despite a temperate forgiving climate), with far, far fewer plant species which are classed as invasive.

It wasn't a walk in the park to germinate any of mine, even the common native aucuparia, taking 2 years of careful outdoor stratification.. Gibberellins are often used commercially, as an alternative to passing through a bird's digestive system (to break down germination inhibitators)...but it is possible to grow a diverse selection of known species because of the reliability of coming true from seed - a major bonus for growers.. Not only the spring bloom, but the often glorious berries and fabulous autumn colouring, add to the elegance and beauty of this genus.

I do agree that Pink Pagoda is a beautiful selection - the glaucous sea-green foliage plays very well with the tender pink berries (which also last a bit longer on the tree than many of the red/orange berrying types)

Plants can behave very differently outside of their native area. That's how invasive species come to be in the first place. Ease of propagation and distribution (thanks to birds) and adaptability to a wide range of growing conditions (including some rather unfavorable ones) has made S. aucuparia an invasive threat across much of the upper US. Hedera helix behaves similarly here.

https://www.invasive.org/weedcd/pdfs/wow/european-mountain-ash.pdf

Seeds that germinate after going through a bird or beast's digestive system can be hard to germinate from seed if you don't have a bird or beast to poop them out. So, it's very easy for something to be invasive because of wildlife spreading the seeds and be hard to germinate for people who collected the seeds.

Yes, I believe I covered all these points, so not really sure why the slightly hectoring tone is always brought to bear on even the slightest whiff of the issue of invasiveness. I only wanted to convey the interesting (to me) fact of apopmixis which allows home propagators (of which I am not alone) the joys of enjoying the varieties of this beautiful and diverse genus.

And given the frankly obscene and dismaying emphasis on 'aliens' and 'strangers' which both of our disgusting govt.s are weaponising at present, it seems impossible to separate nativist politics from the wider conversations...which is certainly why I am feeling quite prickly and defensive ...not to mention a tad patronised. and disinclined to bother with this forum.

Love them. The flowers stink so bad in the spring like sewage, though

skip this if you hate when politics creeps into a gardening forum. i didnt start it Someone else did! thank you to them. for having the nerve to do it.

yes, the words ”alien” and ”invasive ” have taken on threatening connotations now. Suzy, i share your sentiments. i think many people do not read deeply or critically and by extension dont think deeply or critically.. One reason I like the “ Garden Professors” is that they do their own well designed research and sometimes disprove gardening facts and ”advice” people hold sacred ( like the benefits cardboard mulch or compost tea).

Many garden blogs are trash- rewrites and rehashes of unverifiable information. if you read enough of them one can find the distinctive repeated phrase or ridiculous repeated generalization. Theres no place for rebuttal so garden myths and prejudices are perpetuated. by people who have made a career of rewriting others work. and have never gone back to a primary source in their life.

if you read the same information repeatedly from supposedly reliable sources youd have no reason to doubt its truth. Add the frisson of fear (invasion, death of natives by alien species” ) and one is challenged to distinguish between ecology and politics. now, in everyday life, politics is affecting ecology as never before. its not repeated unverifiable

gossip, but the reality of our lives.

Grief, we can be a small-minded and contradictory species, Marie. Apart from the outstanding beauty and resilience of our planet's flora and fauna, I find so much to be inspired by the incredible generosity and community within ecological systems, while we humans devolve into ever more suspicious and isolated individuals...the very opposite of how a good life could be conducted.

@suzy jackson

In my experience, the people who are encouraging native plants and "hectoring" about invasive plants are very different from the people who are against migration. There's plenty of research showing that our ecology is a web and that web depends on plants, insects, birds, small animals, etc, etc. Most native plants support native wildlife. Take, for instance, Butterfly bush, a non-native plant. Sure, its nectar feeds butterflies, but not one single caterpillar. If you don't have caterpillars, you don't have butterflies. It probably does support caterpillars in Asia, where it is native, just not in the US.

The American chestnut tree used to be a common woodland tree. It supported 60 species of insect, mammal, bird, etc. It produced more calories to support wildlife than any other tree in most American forests. When Chinese and Japanese chestnuts were introduced in the nursery trade, they brought a blight that has killed almost all American chestnuts. More than one species of butterfly has gone extinct. This story is repeated everywhere. The predominate trees in the Maine woods are Hemlock (under threat from imported Woolly Adelgid), Ash (under attack from imported Emerald Ash Borer), and eastern white pine, which is threatened by 4 pathogens. So, the forests that have supported wildlife might die off.

Invasive species, which often don't support much wildlife will move in. European Rowans grow wild. Everyone knows kudzu and Japanese knotweed. Our marshes have been colonized by phragmites, driving out the native plants that supported native wildlife. You might not notice or even cheer if there are fewer bugs, but 96% of American bird species feed insects to their young. No bugs, no birds. No caterpillars, no butterflies.

So, if you care about the world you live in, you will know what plants are invasive in your area and not plant them. You'll plant natives to support birds and butterflies.

Well, I ended up not getting teh Mountain Ash, pretty as it is. I got a Linden "Greenspire" instead. And a "Trader" mulberry tree. IDK if I'm going to grow the mulberry in a large pot, put it back in the orchard with the rest of the fruit trees, or plop it out in the landscape somewhere. I really wanted a mulberry tree for the fruit, I'm very happy I found a nice-sized tree -- I've tried and failed twice before with small specimens as well as bare-root mail-order.