Not a pro but I like the option of having an out of the way spot to let things cool or sit assembled ready to be put in the oven (especially helpful when entertaining and guests are serving themselves drinks or snacks at the island) but I think symmetry is overrated in the kitchen

Not just about symmetry - also pantry storage. But thanks for your 2 cents.

It’s a large kitchen - there are not other places for pantry storage?

Not really. Don't wish to block the site lines on the top right which goes to dinette and family room.

I would put the fridge at the far right of the sink, ovens where you have the fridge. You would still have enough space right of the sink for everyday dishes, glasses, and flatware, especially if you're open to storing some dishes in base drawers.

At only 21” wide and 24” deep, the pantry cabinets would enrage me, even if they're the pullout style. Pullouts might actually enrage me more, now that I’m remembering their dysfunction in a prior kitchen.

mcaroll16 - we considered this. but the current setup allows for 2 perfect triangles between the dairy and meat sinks (kosher).

we also considered putting 2 36" subzeros on the backwall (which we own) and putting the ovens where you suggeted next to the range but then we'd be down to 1 18" pantry next to the oven and the double triangle gets busted.

petual67: we also considered 1 36" next to the oven which is a possiblity - through doesn't take advtange of the full 42" we have on the wall. We could make the double oven 33 instead of 30 which would sort of gain back some space.

Are you doing the drafting? Turn off the display of roof planes, electrical and labels to make the drawing less cluttered.

Turn off the crosshairs, or move the mouse so they are away from the area before you do a screen capture.

It's helpful to know what's around the space so we understand traffic patterns and things like sightlines.

What's to the right and behind the ovens?

That is a space underneath the staircase (3X5) and 2' walk thru to get there. It's proposed to be a small office nook which is what we've been using it for and it has worked well.

If those are the only two options, #2 is preferable. I am not loving #1 as the measurement from oven handle to island counter edge looks to be less than 4’. Add in the island stool and the traffic path, I would be concerned about someone coming around the corner and hitting an open hot oven door or a person holding a hot pan. Plus having to ask someone sitting on the stool to move so you can open the oven door from behind safely.

its 48.5" to the oven door (not handle) though we have 43.5" on the opposite end so can push an inch. We can also eliminate that stool altogether. It's 42" from the range wall side to the island.

I would do almost anything to move the ovens over into the main L, for the reasons Design Fan stated. What if you put a 48" fridge and one pantry against the staircase, and ovens and a 12" pullout pantry left of the cooktop?

mcaroll16. we actullay have the wiring currently set up for the oven to be at the top right corner of the L. then we met with some designer who suggested pulling it out to keep the sight lines open.

I would definitely do that before I put the oven on the staircase wall. I prefer my oven fairly close to my cooktop, but that's not important for all cooking styles. If they are going to be split up anyway, that is much better. Go for safety and function over pretty sightlines.

What is the 3’x3’ square cabinet/wall area to the right of the island between the island and table? It causes wasted space between island and table.

Can it be removed so the island can slide to the right towards the table? This would give you more aisle space on the left side of the island between the island and long kitchen cabinet/counter wall. You might also be able to increase the island width to 4’ but then shorten the length so you can get a 4’ aisle (rather than a 3’7” aisle) on the short end side too.

Design fan - which 3x3 cabinet? we have a small breakfast area 3 feet wide with upper and lower. is that what you are referring to?

Move ovens to the sink wall as in the drawing you just posted. It is a huge opening so not seeing the concern about "sightlines."

We can move the ovens to the sink wall. The electric is there already so that's easy. Other question still outstanding is whether to use the 2 subzeros and place on the back wall or keep the 2 36" pantires there, sell the subzeros and replace with a 48" unit (maybe even monogram or something less pricey to match closer to what we might get from the 2010 subzeros).

In general I would keep the fridge(s) in the main L, if you already have a plan to get the ovens in the L as well. But it sounds like you currently use 72" of fridge. Going down to 48" is a big change. Are you taking a big risk, or do you find yourselves not using that much of your current fridge space?

This is the 3’x3’ cabinet/wall area that I was asking whether it could be removed to open up the space so you could better position the island:

Yes it can be removed. However, I'm not sure how that would help reposition the island. Only by turning the island but then you lose landing space across from the fridge and the funcitonal triangle.

Not a fan - you have seating on the end of that island so if people are sitting around the island, that will not work. So if you are going to leave the ovens there, then do a counter alongside. What is the reason for the triangle closet? That office space is tiny.

Can you do something ore like this?

Hi - it's good thinking Debbie. But unfortunately, as you can see now in this image that's where the staircase is. So the office is under the staircase and while it is small, it really suites our neesd and the rest of our rooms are used as bedrooms etc. so it serves and imporant purpose. At some future point if we ever expand, we can throw a door on and make this another pantry I suppose.

Here I took away the end seat and shifted the oven back to the L.

The triangle closet is to ease the flow and transition to the opening to the formal dining room. We don't want to move that. So, either there is just emptry space after the fridge or we add an angled wall or cabinet. Blank space seems awkard. And because the exit from the kitchen isn't a straight run, it seemed better to angle the wall.

I would change this around completely.

Turn the island 90 degrees and give yourself better aisles. Sorry but 42" especially with that large of a fridge is just tight. That 3x3 cabinet is just taking up space. Are you sure you can remove it? Looks like it might be load bearing. If not, this is what I would do.

Double ovens go where the fridge was.

that is a load bearing wall. the cabinet can go not the wall. we thought about going in that direction but it leaves a big void in the back of the kitchen.

I had a similar thought about the island, before figuring that was probably a load bearing wall! Also I can see how you are happy about the work triangle(s). I do think the aisles are a bit tight, but workable.

So my thinking is to drop the double oven altogether and go with a second single oven in the island across from the fridge. Also, reduce the width of the island and add a seating peninsula adjacent. This will keep all the aisles at 4' exactly.

I have double wall ovens and an island 4' away never have I had an issue so not sure what the problem is IMO the pantries stay and you learn to turn and drop the stuff from the oven The storage in the pantries is very important .

patricia - where are you proposing to put the double ovens? Not sure I understood your comment. Thanks