I have visited the wall in DC and the smaller wall in Pensacola.

While it was interesting for me to see, it didn't hold as much emotion for me as it did my parents, who lived in DC during the Vietnam era.

I've been to the one in Washington DC. I was fortunate in that no friends or anyone I knew well were killed there. A few acquaintances, yes. I can't imagine what the experience of losing a brother would be like. I'm sorry for your husband. It must be a shock that never goes away.

Interesting sidenote, I looked at the tour schedule of the travelling walls. It's very curious that the stopping points seem to be random small towns and sububan locations. No major cities are apparent, though I didn't recognize all the names.

An example, with all the people of New York origin who must have been victims of the war, the only stop is in Troy. Upstate, outside of Albany. No other NY stops. In my state, there's one stop in central Orange County, a populated area. No other places in Southern California, a region with more population than most states. The other two are pretty random, out of the way places.

I wonder why?

When I looked at the names of the cities, I thought it looked like the cities or organizations had raised money for the Wall to come.

Yes, RNmom of 2 is correct. From themovingwall.org’s website:

If you are interested in scheduling a date for The Moving Wall™ to come to your area, please go to our Sponsor Page to review all the details needed to have a successful visit of us to your community.

A Sponsor is any organization or group of individuals that wants The Moving Wall™ to visit their area and is willing to do the work to make the local arrangements as described in "Sponsor Information Packet." Sponsors are frequently civic groups, schools, or veterans' organizations. Sponsoring normally requires months of planning by dozens of local volunteers.

I have seen the permanent wall in DC and earlier the traveling wall here in California. My late husband was a Vietnam vet and he was able to see the traveling wall. It's a very solemn, moving experience.

I've been to DC often and to the wall a number of times; it's always very moving. Do you all remember the great controversy when the design was unveiled? Maya Lin was a college student when she won the commission, and a lot of people were upset by the design, preferring a more traditional memorial: that's why there's also the bronze statue of three soldiers at the site that jrb451 posted above.

Sushi, i did not know about this. Wish it were staying longer so I could be sure to go. Also my generation. These men were so young.

I have not seen one of the traveling walls, but have been multiple times to DC. I do remember the controversy over the design but somehow it seems to fit the landscape and has been accepted. It is very moving and I love the addition of the memorial to the nurses. It is my generation too and DH is a veteran of the era and beyond, although he did not have to serve in Vietnam. He was in Europe for several years. Neither of us were close to anyone who didn’t make it home.

edited to add, I see it will be near us in August so making a note to go

My father, Lt. Col G. A. Carew was a navigator bombardier out of Guam during the Vietnam Conflict. I wore a POW bracelet for many years until Capt. Steven Hansen was officially declare MIA and was never found. John Wayne and I had the same bracelt. #1 on the list when we visited DC years ago was to find Capt. Hansen's name on the wall. I was blessed no one on my dad's crew nor any of my friends' dads who were mostly fighter pilots ended up on the wall.

I saw the traveling wall over 30 years ago. My dad fought in Vietnam and my mom insisted we go. I remember being overwhelmed by all the names.

A few weeks ago I went to DC with hubby and 2 kids and saw it there. I didn't know the difference between them until I saw it. Walking along the downward sloping path as names are piled higher and higher has a very sobering effect. Then to stand at the center, below ground level, and the panels towering over you is a powerful experience.

I saw in the mid-80's when I lived in DC. I took visitors from Japan to see the sights and we came across it after seeing the Lincoln Memorial. My Japanese mom said exactly what I was thinking when I saw it, "Oh, I've read about it, but seeing it...oh..." I, too, remember the choice of design and the architect being controversial at the time, but it is very moving.

I've seen the DC one many times but I forgot about the Maya Lin controversy. She was a very young woman who designed something for the ages. It was my generation that lost all those men. Quite sad and moving to see old men at the wall looking for friends.

A note about Jim's brother Steve. He should have gone to West Point, but did not have the support of the local Congressman due to some petty political stuff. He went to UC Berkeley and was ROTC all the way. During the Free Speech Movement, he was manning the ROTC table in Sproul Plaza. He was so highly regarded and admired that in 1982, the day that the Wall was dedicated, UC Berkeley ROTC dedicated a room to him, the only student so honored. Unfortunately Callaghan Hall burned down in 1985. Steve choose the Marines and was a 1st Lieutenant, He commanded the company that was ambushed, and the company that came to their aid was led by 1st Lt. Robert Muller.

I never met Steve, didn't meet Jim until 8 years later, but his family was deeply impacted forever.

Thanks for sharing that story. So sad that such a promising young life was lost.

I have seen the monument in DC. I think its simplicity speaks volumes.

I imagine it inspired the 9/11 Memorial. We spent the last several days in NYC and, for the first time, I went to the 9/11 Memorial. I was in Manhattan on 9/11, my DH worked across the street from WTC, and I lost coworkers and neighbors. I had never been to the memorial before now even though I have been to NYC hundreds of times since 9/11. The memorial itself was perfect, but the whole scene felt inappropriate somehow, like "9/11-land."

I have seen the wall in DC many times over the years and lived quite near it. I had no idea there was a traveling version. Maya Lin is incredible. Her capacity to so beautifully and simply capture the loss of those lives is astounding.

"1 the whole scene felt inappropriate somehow, like "9/11-land." "

I agree with this completely. The solemn dignity and emotion of the Vietnam Memorial is an winner in all respects. The 9/11 memorial is, to me, very weak by comparison and disappointing.

i've only been to the wall one time and with the help of a volunteer, was able to find the names of the 3 high school friends i lost. i did tracings to bring home to give to their families.

it was an experience that even now, all these years later, brings up long buried emotions.

I was very moved by the underground 9/11 museum, but the memorial itself left me cold, notably because the sound of all that rushing water distracts from what should be a quiet, contemplative space.

We were also just in NYC. The number of people taking "smiling selfies" at the memorial was just... gross.

I think the most moving memorial I've ever laid eyes on, is the Oklahoma City Murrah Building memorial. I'm tearing up just thinking about it.

This has been an interesting thread. It lead me to think about notable unfortunate events in US history and I thought - how come there's no Pearl Harbor attack memorial? There is a proper memorial astride the sunken hull of the USS Arizona battleship in honor of the ship and the lives lost there- I've been to it a few times. But I don't think there's one overall memorial. There were many people killed or wounded who were not at the Arizona. Including some civilians.

The time has come and gone to build one. Almost all attack survivors and those whose lives were adversely affected by the attack (because of having to go to war) are mostly all dead. Too bad.

Seeing just the number 58,000 on a page was so different from actually seeing 58,000 names on the wall. The scope of loss. Those poor families. Those poor soldiers. Viewing the names of the lost at the WTC memorial is just as overwhelming. I knew so many people who died that day, and finding their names was heartbreaking.

To put this in perspective think of the Vietnamese dead. Not a popular thought I know. It is almost impossible to get real numbers of how many of them died because we wanted to tell them what sort of government they could have. It varies from 415,000 to two or three million and it depends on whether you include civilians or not. What a wall that would make. Our 58,267 pales by comparison. A whole lot of pain all around. I do wish that our takeaway from that wall is Never Again but it hasn't worked so far. People do not want to hear this but I am sorry, it has to be said. I wish we could learn to not do this sort of thing. I want no one to die. I grieve for both sides.

patriciae

Needless to say Elmer I do not agree with you in any way. Lets toss aside what is mosl likely Ukraine Though that is a guess due to obfuscation. Ukraine has been Ukraine for a long time regardless of how Russia felt about it.

Any way Vietnam.

I was looking for some books a few years back for a trip to Europe; Something I could leave if it didnt suit or finished. I picked up a thick book of Vietnamese short stories from a thrift store. I love a short story so nabbed it. It was mostly stories ten or fifteen years after our war with them ended with us leaving. Translations.

Now I was aware of Vets returning and finding the people there kind to them for what ever reason but this book exceeded that, It pretty much ignored us. The stories weren't about the war but had to be because of how that war affected all the people of the country. We did not count in the great scheme of things. We took over from the French who invited us to do so. Previous the Chinese? What ever, but for them we were nothing in spite of trashing their country with forever chemicals and killing civilians willy nilly. All over the place. Saving them from communism was our story but for them it hardly mattered. We were one in a series of grasping corrupt invaders who left because the Vietnamese would not give up? Maybe. The stories didnt really go into it. It was about them and their stories. They barely included us in spite of the country still being choked up with war debris.

patriciae

It is very moving and such a triibute to the soldiers and veterans who have been so seriously maligned by the atrocity of todays political situation.

My two brothers and my husband served in the military at that time. My brothers both in VietNam at the same time. Hubs lucked out of being sent to Viet Nam but he was one of those who had no choice when the draft board called.

Our current politics does not honor them.

I think you know of what I speak.

I live in the DC burbs but havnet been downtown for some time. Times have been a bit rough. I am inspired to get down there again when the weather gets nice and cool and the summer tourists go away.

My oldest brother died not in Viet Nam but he died of the consequences of his service as a helicopter pilot there. He is buried in Arlington.

Those young men .....many were drafted and had no choice. How would our voilatile society of today react to being subject to jail if they were forced into service? I can only imagine all the outraged voices and political alliances of all manner that would form. That, right there, would be one more wedge in this already fractured world.

I am going to ignore Elmer and comment on the supposed choices of draftees. I don't remember there being any real ones unless you came at the very end of the Draft.

I will say that the military is famous for promising you the world and delivering something else. You dont in fact have much to say about it unless they don't actually want or need you. Knowledge of the get arounds gave us the skewed demographics of who went, Poor whites and blacks. The south was heavily impacted. Well off people consulted people who knew what to do and some people just got lucky and heard through that Grape Vine. My Veteran father consulted a local retired High ranking officer. Since we lived near a base he had his choice. My brother did not qualify to be in the Airforce or Navy even though his testing was exemplary. He had asthma as a child. The local guy suggested the Seabees after looking at all the possibilities. It was a great choice and my brother ended up with a great career. On average by the time you knew you needed an out how many people would know how to go about it except going to college and college deferments got cut at the end.

We shouldnt blame men for not wanting to fight in any way in such a benighted enterprise as Vietnam. My explanation of the book of short stories ought to make it clear that the people of Vietnam north or south did not consider us anything special in their world. That was my point. We were just one more colonial interest. That so many people died on both sides to prevent them from seeking their own way is a sad fact. I hate that so many of our young people died. I wish we would consider concerned guidance for emerging countries but I do not think their best interests is what motivates us. That smacks of politics though. I do grieve for both sides as I said before.

Elmer you have inadvertently exposed your personal information. You might consider deleting what you posted about your draft number. A diligent scraper could come up with your date of birth. I know how careful you are about that sort of thing so a heads up.

patriciae

Those poor soldiers needed the daddy who paid the podiatrist.

Elmer, as a person who was born on a base I have considerable connection to the military but the main person under the gun was a very well loved brother who faced going to Vietnam because he had had asthma as a child. That is enough for someone who is connected to someone else in a material, emotional way that you might not understand That my brother was at risk was enough. It preyed on me that he faced issues I did not. You might not understand that. Did you love your siblings? I would like to think so. Did any of your siblings face conscription?

Weirdly an older brother volunteered. The local board who knew our family refused to conscript him. The doctor said he had kidney problems. He tried again to join and was again refused. I expect that wasn't something unusual. He was and is an idiot.

Three years by the way. Three years to perhaps four years, not six

patriciae

Can we have a moment to recognize that there were many in Vietnam who earnestly believed in their country and saw a future career in the military, both officers and enlisted personnel. That doesn't mean that they were all gung ho about that particular war, but they were all for their country.

You are so right Sushipup. Lets not forget either that people protesting the war cared about their country as well. It is doing your duty to speak up when you see things going wrong. All those young people on the wall were doing their best. I met a lot of men in the National guard and none of them trashed their country. They would say they thought it was a bad war though and that surprised me. My University was close to an enormous NG training camp and they were everywhere. When I was in Kentucky we had a couple of disasters and they would be put up in our Environmental Center. Perfect gentlemen all. Not gungo ho about that war.

patricia

No Elmer I did not live on bases, I was born on one that was not in the south by any stretch. I have lived all over the US and even over seas. And news flash, people on bases where ever they are come from all over the place.

I never knew any national guard till after I left home. hopefully that will clarify things for you. Why not save your nitpicking for another topic.

This is not the time or place for bickering.

patriciae

Elmer, you will never admit I know what I am talking about because you cant. I do not want to take away from a thread that is significant to so many people. Something you seem incapable of understanding. We do treasure our military dead and maimed. You want to somehow dismiss how many of them could be injured because of your understanding of their service. I wanted to make it clear here that I did honor those sacrifices even though I do believe they were made in vain. That is hard for us. I want us to not make the same mistake as we did in Iraq and Afghanistan. People like me were saying Vietnam all over again. Dont do it. How much pain and suffering later has proved people like me right. But it is not about being right. I would love to have been proven wrong but you would not and that is a huge difference between us. I do not need to be right.

patriciae

What happened to elmers comments?

patriciae

Oh gee Elmer, sorry. I never lived in Louisiana. My DH's family like you persist in believing I am from Louisiana, as I am not but have actually lived in Alabama, Mississippi North and South Carolina, Virginia, Florida and for those who think these are Southern States, Tennessee and Kentucky. I will not bother to list all the other non southern states. I do have family from Louisiana though. I was not born in the south. My parents are southern. Are you happy?

Now you calling me vague is the pot calling the kettle black. I have never dodged where I am from and have actually posted here in the past where I was born but you Elmer not so much.

I dont understand why you are so closed mouth about where you are from. You get to be that way but to try and call me out as vague begs the difference. You tell me where you were born and I will tell you. Will you?

I did grow up in the military surrounded by all the ranks and even other services. I stand by anything I have said.

Oh, I just read " no other military" so you must mean my uncles. brother, Brothers in law, cousins? Neighbors, friends, the guys whose children I baby set for?

I will say this again, my brother meant a lot to me and what he faced meant a lot to me. That I did not face what he did seemed unfair. I have made that clear. You want to dismiss that. Dont.

patriciae

'

I am so sorry that my heartfelt post regarding The Wall and DH's brother descended into such noise.

Do not be suchipup. Really do not. I feel what you feel from a some what different perspective but we are on the same page. I sincerely respect the sacrifices of our own and that we use this to do things I cant respect is beside the point. These young people are gone and everything they could have been is gone as are so many in Vietnam. We really need to consider them and their lives as also lost. If we could do that maybe we would be less likely to do what we do. Our patriotic young should not be used. Maybe some people in Iraq would still be alive? They feel just like we do.Maybe I ought not say that but I keep hoping we will not keep doing what we do and I keep thinking only by making these people real, not gooks and slants, will make their suffering as real as ours.

Sorry I need to add Elmer you are just too weird for words. As I said before what are you talking about?

patriciae

@sushipup2 you shouldn’t be the one apologizing. It was a great subject and I, for one, was happy to learn of the traveling wall. No one is surprised that it was derailed, as so many threads are.

To Patriciae and others, if we all learn to not respond to digs, we'd all be a lot happier.

I have tried everything. On this very thread I tried being nice as I have done before. I really thought Elmer needed to know how exposed his date of birth was. He was dismissive.

Not responding to digs will not keep him from finding new things to dig about. Why on earth make up a quarrel over some supposed objection to Elmers state of birth? I get to try and post something that isnt going to make everyone mad because Elmer wants to fight about it so Elmer doesnt rant. I suppose I could just stop posting at all.

patriciae

Are you familiar with the idiom about wrestling with a pig?

Just do not engage. Ignore. Don't even start. Respond to the thread as if you didn't see anything. Don't stop posting, just ignore the cattle prod.

Thanks, I will give that a try-again- but it has not worked in the past. I would do it to make others happier I suppose but am I to say nothing when he does it to other people? I am not comfortable with that. I dont actually mind what he says.

patriciae

Just remind the other person to not engage, to ignore.

patriciae: The wrestling with a pig idiom applies even if you think you're wrestling for the benefit of others. It's still wrestling with a pig.

Shun the troll.

patriciae, I admire how polite you are and how much hope you have but the mud is inevitable for some strange reason. I have tried to figure it out. Guessing maybe alcohol turns some people mean or many other guesses I’ve had which don’t help at all. 🤷‍♀️

We should be able to chat like grown ups with occasional issues but some folks prefer to have another type of experience. Kudos for trying so hard.

To get back to the original post…. The Wall is in Washington DC. The Traveling Wall is for those who cannot go to the one in DC for whatever reason. It does have to be sponsered. It has been in North Alabama before.

It is awful that this thread has been turned into a circus by one poster.

ETA: Of couse that one like to turn all posts onto all about the troll.? The troll is fake.

So much *lasting damage*. The American people have not even directed Congress to declare war since WWII, yet there are still a hundred arguments to be had up one side and down another over Who, Why, How...and sideways. There is nothing 'noble' about choosing war to solve anything. No glory outweighs the losses.

Personally:

A neighbor's son moved to Canada to avoid the draft -- and never returned.

My DH did as Elmer did, enlisting in the Reserves for a six year commitment. A college friend had the gilded 'pomp' knocked out of him on a destroyer -- along with a belated larger understanding of what fools men be.

Good for him, chisue. Your husband did as I did, taking advantage of one of the several available options to avoid an uncertain fate.

For those of us who wanted to avoid active duty service and depending on the timing, the possibility of spending time in a war zone, information on alternatives and the requirements/consequences for each was readily available.

In case anyone is interested - my local PBS station is airing a documentary on Maya Lin on July 22.

It's not a new production, it's from 1996.

Strong Clear Vision

Tuesday, July 22 | 10 p.m. on WHYY-TV | ADD TO CALENDAR

Revisit the Oscar-winning story of Maya Lin, the young architect behind the Vietnam Veterans Memorial whose design was met with widespread controversy and public attacks. At the intersection of art, politics and creativity she remained steadfast in her personal vision.