Mx Chino, thank you so much for the review! I’m so glad you confirmed the challenges of growing Austins in Ohio — misery loves company, right? 😅 I’m in Cincinnati, zone 6b.

Olivia is a total rock for me too, and Eustacia Vye is another favorite — she’s holding it down like a queen.

Meanwhile, Moses is completely ignoring me… and we have absolutely identical growing conditions — including the midges! So rude. 😂

Elina,

I apologize for my negligence. I have more cases of information overload these days than I care to admit! Of course you and I garden in almost identical growing conditions. Thanks for promoting Eustacia Vye. I will study it carefully.

Moses the Penitent.

Location, location, location. Scepter d' Isle is a huge, beautiful bush for me.

Eh. I stand by my comments. The bottom of your rose has no leaves and I don't like the shape of it. Your flowers look good though!

@Mx Chino, What I also learned from you is how easily you let go of underperformers or roses you don't like. It's still hard for me to give up on a rose (or anything else), but I’m starting to see that there’s absolutely no reason to keep a rose that doesn’t like you—or one you don’t like either.

@elenazone6 I have limited space for roses unfortunately and limited months that they bloom. If don't like them I see no reason to keep them. Sucks to waste money like that but I'd rather enjoy my garden!

@Mx Chino, I bet my space for roses is much smaller than yours, and thank you for unintentionally pushing me in this direction.

Mx Chino---Have you tried Munstead Wood or Molineux.

Munstead Wood

Molineux

Love Munstead! @Mx Chino, I had similar experiences to yours!

I am not sure what is going on with the DA marketing strategy!? I have tried many of the "new ones," many of which have been clunkers for me,,as for you!

While it's true that the EU has had this insane summer "heatdome" with weeks of the 90s-100s and no rain, the ones that survived best, have been many of the older DA's, including/especially the "cancelled" ones--at least in the EU--like Munstead, Evelyn, Othello, Lady Emma, Dark Lady, Jubilee Celebration, Abe Darby, and Tradescant-- even though very few roses in my garden are over 5-6 years old so even though they are "older" varieties, they are not older plants in my garden.

To recap the current (very sparse ) EU catalog/new releases, the good and the bad (and they were mostly bad--so am not sure if I should bother with new releases King's Rose and Beckham..??? Anyone???...And I am taking pervious summers' performances into account as well:

--Mill on the Floss: heathy plant, gets tall, small/sparse flowers, esp. compared to plant, and flowers fry in heat--am considering SP-ing "cuz huge and so few/tiny flowers, maybe less than 10 in two years I've had it

--Roald Dahl, healthy, but boring (little scent) and not a continuous bloomer, so SP'd to make way for an own-root Jude the Obscure that is better in every way

-- Gabriel Oak, fried in sun and had to be moved as was burning to a crisp--and this was before it got that hot--flowers came out lighter than catalog (or got the wrong plant?). I tried one before that gave me one flower in a summer and died (luckily reimbursed)

--Penelope Lively, both potted that I bought last summer and last fall died before summer this year (one; the minute the sun hit--in Spring!)

--Bathsheba (flowered once in two years)

---Dannahue (flowered once this summer, less than 10 flowers in 3 years, and where is the scent? Whilst Jude the Obscure,has been rocking it, all three of them, in different spots, big healthy, fragrant

--Lady of Shallot, shovel-pruned, bought directly from DA, but it had too much sucker growth that kept coming out from below bud union, hard to see because of long canes (and over the years, it was not as fragrant or as continuously blooming as Lady Emma Hamilton,--both my Lady Emmas have bloomed almost constantly in different exposures, as they always do and sometimes even into november, yet Lady Emma IS still unavailable in the EU. The limited releases of "oldies"/"cancelled" roses-- DA told me--is only for the UK or the US, despite what is on the DA web site.

--Eustacia Vye smells great so tried it 5 times over the last couple of years: 3 died. Both of the two that remain have had one flush (each) this year--in different exposures--and it was not better last year with the one that died, or the two that died before that, and no interesting colors this year (apparently that's only when it's partly cloudy/rainy in Spring, almost undistinguishable from Emma Bridgewater, which skewed pink in heat)

--Bring Me Sunshine, a disaster. Both bought as potted a year ago. About 10 blooms total since. Defoliated, in both exposures

---Emma Bridgewater, better this year (second full summer), but flowers stay small so far, , plant scraggly, but there's hope as it bloomed through the "heatdome," it's resting now, but nothing like catalog photos this summer, which must be really for the first flush in the right weather, otherwise, think pink-- it's pink most of the time, other than the very first flush last year when the weather was rainier

--Summer Song, actually better this summer (must like heat) but also the own-root I got definitely beats the older grafted one--it is basically a continuous bloomer on its own-roots

--Young Lycidas, flowers faded out in the heat/plants defoliated despite watering (which was not the same for Munstead or Othello) and bloomed less, and went light mauve

--Emily Bronte, already a sporadic bloomer. It usually has decent 1st flush, and then smaller blooms scattered through summer, with flowers that can burn and get dingy in "normal" hot weather, so this summer, it shut down in the heat, really just the one flush and a flower or two, but it's still a great bush so if you want a nice looking shrub;..

--The Generous gardener, heat shut it down and it bloomed once, also generally, in any weather, it's more bush than flower

--Princess Ann, never a great bloomer, was slightly better this year (at age 5) but did take a break, so 5 years to get a sort of decent amount of flushes going, my two-year-old othello was more impressive

--Desdemona had single flowers in the heat, and almost not a decent flower this year, even if in 1st flush, they can be great, and it is down to two canes, after 5 years...

--William and Katherine, a rather unspectacular non-continuous bloomer, but it is tough, is getting quite huge and putting on a bit of an amazing show in late summer, after a break

--Wollerton Old Hall, maybe one or two flowers only this summer, with a bud or two coming, maybe less than a dozen flowers in 3 years, but it is in a very rough spot, and smells like licorice or men's soap, so good for toughness
--Imogen, can truly live in shade, so great for those that have that issue--and it's so, so, so, so, pretty, just all frilly and girly, but definitely not a continuous bloomer, whether, in sunnier or shadier exposure but low-maintenance and one that will do shade

--Boscobel, shovel-pruned two summers ago for defoliating

--Olivia Rose Austin (a rare non-clunker in current catalog), the only thing missing is strong scent but it is reliable and put out quite a few blooms in this heat and puts out uncountable blooms every summer

--Elizabeth, in year three, is finally putting out a decent (second) flush when others, like my Evelyns are in flush 4 or 5, and one of my Abes never stoopped, but not as fragrant as reviewers say, and maybe less than 20 flowers in 3 years, and this is maybe first time for a second flush

--James A. Austin, a scraggly, sparsely blooming disaster in this heat, but has never been the most vigorous, and not as amazing or big as Othello! . Probably less than 20 blooms in 3 years (for each of both of them).. More scent in year 3, but the bush part is a not...

Of the older varieties (most of which fared much better--and are no longer available to purchase in the EU, even as DA has made them sometimes available in the US/UK):

--Evelyn (cancelled, why???), it never bloomed so well as this summer, almost continuous bloomer, and it's just the most amazing rose ever, in terms of beauty and fragrance

--Othello, dark gorgeous fragrant flowers, addictive, so healthy in this weather--if I had the room, I would have 20!

--Munstead Wood, it just basically blooms almost all summer and into fall (like 6-7 moths) no matter what, although flowers did fade a bit in the "heat dome", why is it cancelled, why? why? they said it will not be back in the EU...

--Tradescant (stayed dark red and knocked out it of the part in both SE and NW exposures thru whole summer), own-roots better, but it is just amazing!!!

--the Dark Lady, took a break but never stopped staying gorgeous, so gorgeous, it's an almost continuous bloomer when there is not a freak never-ending series of heatwaves

--St Cecilia, blooms in flushes, but much more gorgeous and fragrant than Desdemona as it ages, and the scent lingers in a room

--Lady Emma Hamilton, the most continuous bloomer, original color and powerful fragrance, a goer in rain or shine (see above--and why is that cancelled?)

--Jubilee Celebration, continuous bloomer (even if a bit faded in the extreme heat), and in the hottest spot , and that perfume!!!

--Spirit of Freedom, bloomed until it really boiled but still alive (thankfully) and the "baby" one that I just got despite recent cancellation continues to grow

--Royal Jubiiee (toughiee!!)

--Abraham Darby (my two are on own roots so don't know if that makes a difference but mine are just so vigorous, especially the one in the SE exposure which must bloom 7-8 months of the year!! May-December), but the flowers are just so plentiful and beautifuly, so why cancelled?

--The Prince, now kicking it after 100 degrees should have cooked it (as they are mostly babies), stayed dark red, and the best perfume ever!!!

--Golden Celebration, just amazingly huge plant with almost constant blooming of huge yellow fragrant flowers no matter what the summer weather

--Claire Austin, one of my rare plants that is actually old, reliably tough, if wild in aspect and easil easily shattered flowers. The heat shut it down for the first time in its life, but it's been 18 years on this planet (one of my rare truly old plants), which amazes me, and hopefully it will pick back up as its best flowers are often in late October-November

--Wild Edric, got the end of last year, and loved to bloom in rain/shade, not as dark as the pics, but in the dry heat, died, couldn't get off the ground --may try again

--Benjamin Britten, in perhaps the hottest spot, put out flowers all summer, even if they didn't last long, and that plant is so amazing, the fragrance and rare color of the flowers are so awesome, like no others, why cancel it in the EU and keep James Austin?

--Charles Rennie Mackintosh (happy in shade, blooms into late fall/early winter) but also showed strength in blooming through this hot summer

--Jude the Obscure, big strong, beautiful, fragrance is divine, atypical

--Alnwick rose, not a great bloomer for me, but that raspberry perfume when she does..., but it did not like this heat, basically two flushes in good times for me

--Mary Rose, can be relied on to almost always have at least one fragrant flower, even if a not spectacular rose, it's healthy and reliable

--Glamis Castle, stays small but is resiliant, just planted it a couple of years ago and it lived--- unlike the EV's

--William Shakespeare 2000, am not sure what ot make of that one, it is tough, blooms in waves from Spring until late fall, but it does not impress me?? Maybe Munstead, Tradescant and the Prince have spolied me!

--Falstaff--if you can still grab one--do... It will become an almost continuous bloomer as it ages (although not the third month of 90-100 degrees) and you will be in love--tough!

Paris, I really enjoyed reading your assessments!

So I just got notice of this thread being commented on and thought i would post a 1 year update about the roses that made it, those that didnt. Along with what i replaced them with!

i had a bad blackspot during the first flush on almost everything in this particular garden. took about 2 days removing infected leaves. everything grew back without issue and have been blackspot free the past 6 weeks or so.

Losers - these are all being replaced..

Desdemonia - small blooms, and they shatter in 2 days. ----I ended up keeping this one this year. it still underperformed, hasnt put on much size. i havent seen a new basal cane all year. flowers are so pretty, but small, and dont last long. Next year this will probably be gone.

Roald dahl - small blooms, little to no fragrance, shatters in 2 days----- same as above, just hasnt grown much, tiny small flowers and bush.

Sceptred isle - black spot magnet, drops is leaves every year. honestly just an ugly growing bush----this one did much better this year. it did get blackspot early on this spring. i basically stripped it of leaves, it has grown them back and has been healthy ever since. no plans to delete this one as of now.

Windermere - nice looking blooms, realtively healthy but man if you even look at a bloom to long it shatters. ----shovel pruned and replaced with top cream! huge hybrid tea rose with a huge blooms, great scenet. it can ball with the rain but much better rose.

Lady of Shallot - flowers are fine, i like the moderate fragrance but the bush itself is an eyesore grows huge with long flopping canes that would probably grow better as a climber. seriously cant wait to dig these out. ------ shovel pruned all 3 of them! good riddance ugly spindley things. ----- replaced with fun in the sun! grandfloria, beautiful flowers, vibrant and healthy. still a small rose as its a 2nd year purchased from heirloom last year. fashion foward - beautiful grandfloria striking white buds with pink inner petals.. very unsuaul and romantica ballgrown - big beautiful cupped blooms.

vanessa bell - small flowers, shatter quickly, moderate fragrance. its just nothing special

princess alexandria of kent - not healthy, blackspot, ok blooms but they deform in 80 degrees and flatten out. just not attractive. -----made it this year nothing spectacular, just didnt look hard for a replacement.

emily bronte - ugly flat roses, mild fragrance. luckily i dont have to look at the ugly roses much because it barely blooms. bye bye -----shovel pruned! replaced with LIv Tyler..not simlar at all but i just loved the pictures of it. great scent, ok looking flowers, but its also a young 2 year old bush from heirloom.

golden celebration - same as lady of shallot ugly growth habit, large golden flowers that smell fantastic, probably better grown as a climber. the shoots it grows off the main canes get long and ive actually had canes break because of the weight of the flowers. bye bye ---- shovel pruned

poets wife - spindly ugly growth, nice frangrance flowers droop to the ground. cya ----shovelpruned

bathsheba - doesnt want to climb, flowers bleach out quick in the sun ok other than that.---- did much better this year, its actually climbing. first flush was fantastic, second not so great as we had a stretch of 100 degree days.

2nd chance - all of these made it one more year, to be decided next year

mill on the floss - great fragrance, beautiful, tiny blooms that shatter quickly (1 inch, seriously) they're so pretty and not ready to give up hope on this one. if the blooms get larger 3 inches or so, it will be safe---this is a goner, will be shovel pruned in the fall. i have a fantastic theirry marx that has outgrown its pot that will be put in its place

Charlotte - really like the look of the flowers, 2nd flush this year was much better, little to no fragrance but safe for now. - decent, no really strong thoughts on it eiter way.

carding mill - pretty flowers, average size, nice growth habit just ok---spindly small blooms, you only get the advertised color in the spring..otherwise it looks like bathsheba. get fun in the sun iinstead.

bring me sunshine - i went back and forth on if this was a loser or giving it another year. the flowers are beautiful but droop, spindly growth. large blooms that when i look at them i just think vitamin C, they're just gorgeous.----lovely, is a keeper for me.

gentle hermonie - just ok, great fragrance. willing to give it another year.---just ok

Winners - these arent going anywhere

Oliva Rose Austin - oliva is a rockstar compact bushy growth, seems like its always blooming. little fragrance but beautiful 3 to 3 1/2 blooms. i have 2 of them and keeping them both ----Oliva is a rockstar yet again. BEST AUSTIN ROSE

Wollerton Old Hall - another rockstar i have 2 of them planted on the sides of an archway. both of them are shooting out main canes like crazy, non stop blooms. i really dont think its stopped blooming since it started. fantastic fragrance. love them keeping them both.---another rock star.

Gertrude Jekyll - 2 of them growing on an archway, hasnt put on much size this year. i dont even think its grown any new main canes, but they've bloomed very well. repeated well and the fragrance can be smelled from 20 ft away. blooms do shatter quickly but i dont care, its worth it.-ehhh first flush was fantastic, slow since then.

Silas Marner - 2 of them growing next to each other, and you definitely have to keep pruning or you will get spindly growth that drops on the ground. beautiful medium flowers and a good fragrance new growth can weigh down the young canes and snap them, so i have to stake them up right until they harden off -----SHOVEL PRUNED small flowers, spindley growth. good ridance... replaced 2 of them with loves me loves not and martha stewart. loves me loves me not is AMAZING. Huge petal packed blooms, great health great scenet. ill say it again, HUGE blooms. Martha Stewart, 1 yo rose from heirloom have only had two blooms but its gonna be ana amazing one.

queen of sweeden - another rock star, beautiful smallish flowers that stay upright, little to no fragrance, but its growing great and i love the flowers. shes a keeper ----rock star yet again

alnwick rose - similar to queen of sweeden growth habit. pretty flowers, shatters quickly, but i like the color -- did fine this year

Boscobel - unfortunately mine died in its pot last year, i was sick at the beging of winter for awhile and didnt have the energy to move it into my garage. so i lost this one. beautiful growth habit and blooms. i would get another one but sweet mademoiselle i consider to be a superior rose and is similar to boscobel with better fragrance and larger blooms.---nothing to really add as i didnt grow it this year. if a gun was pointed at me to choose between boscobell and sweet madamoselle...sweet madammoselle

Eustacia vye - similar size and performance to Olivia rose. Maybe doesn't bloom as much but very pretty flowers and more striking to the eye than Olivia. It also shatters faster. - did great this year. 2nd flush was small, but that was due to our weather.

@Rose Paris get it over with and dig that ugly mill on the floss up. lol. its so unfortunate that bring me sunshine and wollerton old hall doesnt do well for you in the EU wollerton never stops blooming and growing for me. i just tied up a new 10ft canse to my arch. i dont think ive seen itwithout blooms once this year.

@Mx Chino, yeah, I think Mill on the Floss needs to go! Thanks for encouraging us all to "Spring Clean" whatever doesn't make us happy! It is a shame about BMS. They are still young, so am thinking one more year, but you're right: the canes are floppy, even if the flowers smell nice! My Golden Celebration does climb; it just naturally climbed up and through the shrub-hedge behind it and has some reach! Maybe 3 meters high. It is a shame about Wollerton but maybe being out in the open on an arch is the key, and not in part shade; if you have two that large, they must smell amazing! The scent of one flower travels; am keeping mine for the toughness. But as for Eustacia Vye, it is lovely, but one or two flushes are not enough for me on a modern DA that they discontinued others for due to it being a "better variety." I feel deceived by the marketing! Will keep them one more year (if they make it!) I agree that Olivia blooms more and for longer! I am happier without Lady of Shallott, too, and will never understand why DA threw out Lady Emma and kept it! Sweet Mademoiselle has been on my "to try" list! :)

@susan9santabarbara, I'm glad my comments were of interest, and with encouragement with @Mx Chino, I think I am going to be more relentless in switching up the roses in my garden for next year! Am currently planning a Gothic, Victorian sort of garden, with OGRs, Moss roses, Rugosas, unique/atypical modern roses, like from Ducher, Meilland, Guillot or André Eve. Am definitely keeping my best DA's (dark reds/magentas, Evelyn...), but there is just a whole world of amazing roses to explore! So liberating! And nice to have support in moving on! This is a good thread!

Mx Chino, I really enjoyed your update!

Gorgeous, stunning Roses, Diane!!!

This was a good read.

@Diane Brakefield, beautiful!

Thank you, @Rose paris and Mx Chino for your reviews of Austins.

@Rose Paris: What type of soil do you have? Which ones of your Austins do best as own roots? Thank you. Own roots die often in my heavy & poor drainage clay and cold zone 5, so I buy only the vigorous varieties as own root, or fix my clay with a bag of coarse sand.

strawchicago z5, almost all of my own roots (from any brand) come in pots, so one thing I learned was not to not plunk them in the ground right away if they seemed small, but let them get bigger in their original pot first over weeks or months. When I replant them, I put the whole potted rose (dirt and all intact) in the hole and add bought soil. around them,. Maybe you know all of this--but if it can help anyone!

I have roses all over (pots, front and back patios and gardens--SE and NW),. I don't know what they amended the front with, the back started as the worst dirt ever, and it's now amended and fertilized, so hard to say!

I am pretty sure my original soil is somewhat clay-like, but even harder, which is what is so curious about the very newest DA varieties like BMS-- they are all in amended or completely purchased soil, and well cared for, because they were planted after I learned how to garden!

The dirt when I moved in here (just before Covid) was hard industrial soil from when they put the new neighorhood in, around 20-ish years ago, so it's this worksite dump-soil from before people got really, truly upset about microplastics and the lack of biodegradability and toxic waste of garbage. Whenever I dig down in in a new spot, I actually find building waste, like concrete, plastic, rocks, bits of pipe--shocking that they were allowed to do that!

Yet, my oldest roses purchased here (6-year-old) Munstead and William and Katherine were basically plunked directly in it and were like never watered or fertilized for two years--and lived--so maybe it's good dirt? One of my own-root Evelyns (my oldest) is actually plunked in that bad soil, too, and I noticed it boosted her when I switched to organic liquid feed, as I don't think that regular feed/compost could actually penetrate that hard ground. All of my Evelyns, grafted or not, loved the "heatdome".

I have grown plants in the midwest, and those harsh winters may also have an impact on what thrives there. Of my own-roots, Abe, Jude, Tradescant, and Charles Rennie Mackintosh are perhaps the most low-maintenance, and just do it no matter what the circumstances are (and Abe and Tradescant both survived some serious dog antics! )

Most of my own-roots do better than grafted, but I guess I would weigh my advice against the fact that, here we can go months without much sun in Winter (unlike the Midwest). It snows only a bit-- basically rains all winter--and stays at or above freezing. My best roses in the cold (but not in the "heatdome") is by far Claire Austin (grafted), which blooms the best in November, even early winter, and also is 18 years old (a rare rose from before). Both my 18-year-old Emma (the other survivor from my smaller, previous green space) and my 2-year old (grafted) LE do that, too. My own-root CRM loves to bloom in late autumn, even if there's only about an hour of direct sun by that point in its spot. . And at least one of own-root my Princes blooms in December every year, even on Christmas once--I don't know if that means it likes it cold or that's just that rose's cycle? it stays small so another opinion is definitely needed... But it had definitely already snowed on it. For reds, Tradescant is bigger and tougher and continuous-blooming this year, in both exposures, and I have own-roots and grafted of that one, and own-roots are definitely more vigorous and taller!

Anyway, it might be interesting for someone who still experiences those cold winters to chime in here??

Also my mother would actually put special protection on her roses in Winter in your zone,, these sort of domes that let sun in, and we even mounded dirt or hay around the bottom part of the plant during Winter.

Rose Paris Thank you very much for helping all of us who wonder about own root or grafted for the ones you mentioned. I'm glad to hear that your Tradescant is more vigorous as own root.

These OWN ROOT Austins are continuous bloomer in my heavy clay and winter hardy at -20 F windchill factor in NW Chicago: Evelyn and Carding Mill bought in 2012, W.S. 2000 & Wise Portia & Radio Times bought in 2011, Christopher Marlowe, Golden Celebration, Eglantyne and Mary Magdalene bought in 2011, Munstead Wood bought in 2015 .. all have very short pause between constant blooming.

3 flushes with these own roots: Abraham Darby, Lady of Shalott, Pat Austin, Queen of Sweden, Tess of d"Ubervilles & James Galway & Crown Princess Magareta, The Dark Lady, The Squire, Royal Jubilee, Sweet Juliet, Noble Antony, St. Cecilia, Queen Nerfetiti.

GRAFTED on Dr. Huey has a longer pause between flushes: Eustacia Vye and Young Lycidas both has a long pause between flushes.

I gave away own root Queen of Sweden - got too tall & small blooms & light scent.

I gave away own root Scepter d'Isle .. that got huge and I don't like its myrrh scent.

I gave away own-root L.D. Braithwaite .. not much scent and bush is too big & thorny.

I gave away own root Charles Darwin .. stingy and color fades badly.

I killed own root Lilian Austin .. stabbed me when I deadhead it.

Two Boscobel own root died through my zone 5 winter. A Shopshire Lad and Sharifa Asma died in my zone 5 winter .. don't miss them since they were so tiny as own roots.

Own root Leander, Darcy Bussell, Teasing Georgia & William Morris & Wenlock died from poor drainage clay, that was before I bought the 5 feet long trench digger to dig out rocks below. I miss Wenlock's scent, but the bush threw long octopus canes. I miss Darcy Bussell's deep red color and constant blooming (very light scent). I miss Leander's fabulous scent (similar to Felicia's scent).

Jude the Obscure died 3 times as own root in my heavy clay, I'm trying it the 4th time next year (will fix my heavy clay with coarse sand and gypsum which worked for Firefighter).

I agree that SOLUBLE fertilizer works best in my rock hard clay & short summer in zone 5. Granular fertilizer like chicken manure gunks up on top, and such get dissolved all AT ONCE during heavy rain to burn roots. I get CONTINUOUS blooming on Prairie Breeze with 3 times a week SOLUBLE sulfate of potash even in hot summer See below. Prairie Breeze has a strong wafting scent that only Munstead Wood can match:

My own root Munstead Wood is very healthy (never see blackspots, rust, nor mildew) compared to grafted-on-Dr.Huey Munstead Wood at the rose park being a wimpy blackspot fest. My own root Munstead Wood is wider with more leaves than rose park's grafted MW:

Below white Mary Magdalene has the most enchanting scent among my 160 fragrant roses. I dislike most myrrh scents except for Mary Magdalene's unique frankincense. It's like a mystical blend of Catholic church's incense, floral and a cozy fireplace. In the winter I miss Mary M's scent so I bought an expensive frankicense oil, and it CANNOT match Mary's amazing scent which perfumes the entire room.

Frankincense is known to calm anxiety and stress, and sniffing Mary is a temporary passport to heaven. A cut cluster of Mary lasts long in the vase up to 5 days.

With so many roses I rarely have duplicates, but I'm rooting at least 2 more Mary for myself so I can enjoy its unique scent that comfort and calm me.

Close up of Mary Magdalene's button hole. If I have to choose ONLY ONE rose to keep among my 160 fragrant varieties, it would be Mary M. since her scent floats away to calm and uplift me. I'm happy when I smell her wafting scent.

Below pink Radio Times is pure damask scent and beat many old garden roses in my zone 5 garden: Comte de Chambord, Duchess de Rohan, Yolanda d'Aragon, Madame Isaac. Periere, Souvenir du President Lincoln, Centifolia, and La Reine.

Below is close up of Radio Times, very winter hardy in my zone 5:

I enjoy Christopher's Marlow unique orange color .. smells like an expensive perfume of lemon, musk and carnation. Most Austins got pruned by my zone 5 winter down to 1 foot or less in spring:

Christopher Marlowe is very orange in my heavy clay, but blooms age to pinkish orange.

Straw - I find that own root roses often die for me, too. Prairie Breeze blooms a lot for you!! I only have one rose that wafts a tiny bit...Grande Dame. I can stand beside it and smell the blooms without having to get close to the blooms. :) I wish I could smell your Mary Magdalene's fragrance. :) It must be amazing to be your favorite fragrance from 160 roses!! I love the soft pink in your MM blooms. I love your Radio Times blooms!!! Heavenly. :) :) That's a rose I'd love to try. I have La Reine, and so far there's no fragrance, but then it's only had 2 blooms this year, and none last year. Oh, that close-up is glorious!!! I would love to find a Radio Times grafted.

strawchicago z5, thanks for the info and I love your pictures!!!! So beautiful!!! You are so lucky to have gotten all those roses own-root! Or even to have them at all, as so many are now cancelled in the EU. I would love to find a Christopher Marlowe, and if I ever see another Mary Magdalene for sale, I will snap it up, as that one is sometimes around as "Ausjolly." (Even though I am definitely not getting any "new" DA's, at least until the reviews come in!! The new ones are so expensive besides!! One could get three older roses for that price here! But my spouse likes the fact that the latest is named for soccer idol!) I love my own-root Dark Lady, but as you asked for the best growers, it was not on my last list as it has stayed at two canes for the last 5 years, but healthy canes, and the flowers, are abundant and awesome--a toughie. I would get another one of that, too, if could find it.

I am trying to buy mostly own-root now because below-the-graft-growth has taken over more than one of my roses..You can cut the sucker growth on grafted, but once it starts having that issue, it doesn't seem to stop!? Also with the grafted, most of the graft union can seem to be dead, so there is nowhere new to grow from, and so you have three branches growing off the one side/corner, which is so unattractive, and limiting, whereas an own-root can always send out new leaders, and straight up, and thus can live a lot longer. Sorry to hear about Jude. Definitely worth it if you can get it going! Munstead is a standout in my garden too, but is grafted on who-knows-what, from two different vendors (Huey is ot a thing in the EU). If I could get non-grafted, I would. I am sure yours is doing better than the park's one also because you take good care of it! I have never tried Potash? Does that just come in garden stores? Also, if any one can answer, what about those little balls of artifical feed? I wonder if they work as I still see the ones from years ago, like they never dissolved or do they just leave that shell?

Rose Paris David Austin no longer sell its own fertilizer high in potassium, but recommends Oscomote for Outdoor with trace elements. This works great to force blooms on TINY rootings (less than a gallon rootball), but it does NOT work toward bigger roses' health when they are more than 1 year old.

I'm annoyed at the plastic shells residue in the soil even after 5 years !!

I get better result on roses when topped with a thick wad of organic matter (leaves or alflafa), then water with SOLUBLE fertilizer like sulfate of potash.

Sulfate of potash has low salt index of 20, versus muriate of potash has a high salt index of 112. Muriate of potash is the cheap potassium chloride salt that is used to melt the ice off from our freezing side walk in zone 5.

Most fertilizers contain the cheap & high salt potassium chloride. I have to look for the ones that contain LOW salt potassium phosphate (salt index of 7), or sulfate of potash (salt index of 20).

Sulfate of potash is a bit acidic and is easier to dissolve in my alkaline tap water. Plus it's cheaper than potassium phosphate. I make my own high potassium & high calcium fertilier by burning branches & garden waste in a fire pit to make biochar. Biochar pH is 8.6 and works well to offset tons of acidic rain here. But biochar does NOT work for dry climate since it's too alkaline.

Below own root Royal Jubilee got zero fertilizer but some biochar from last fall 2025, plus tons of leaves & wood chips on top. I skipped spring fertilizer. It's always healthy & NO blackspots. Pic. was taken this June 2026, with over 100 blooms as 5th-year-own root:

Below is always healthy own root Evelyn thanks to its being vigorous as the SHORT shrub 1993 version. Evelyn produces over 100+ blooms per year as a short shrub, versus my own root Abraham Darby is taller & lankier and gives me only 15 blooms per year. My Abraham Darby is a weaker own root and Abe. is more prone to blackspots than own root Evelyn. My Abe doesn't like to be pruned short down to 1.5 foot like Evelyn (fertilized with biochar):

Below Evelyn's bloom was produced with high potassium biochar (pH 8.6). Evelyn gives me CONSTANT cut flowers for the vase, and I credit sniffing its peachy Danish pastry scent to avoid sweets. Diabetes run in my family and sniffing Evelyn helps me to say NO to sweets when my daughter & husband indulge in treats. At 64, I lost weight from 125 lb. to 112 lb. by sniffing Evelyn (sweet peaches) and ages in the vase to sweet Danish pastry ... versus Abraham Darby reeks in the vase of sharp citrus.

My 1993 form & SHORT SHRUB Evelyn is different from CLIMBER Evelyn that a nearby friend grows. Climbing form blooms LESS than short shrub. My short hybrid tea Crimson Glory was a constant bloomer, versus my climbing Crimson Glory was taller & less scent and mainly spring flush. My short Cloudert Soupert is a constant bloomer versus a nursery told me NOT to get climbing Cloudert Soupert since it's stingy.

A nearby friend got 4 TALL climber-Evelyns from David Austin and K & M nursery which gave paler & whitish blooms (circled) below. Her climber Evelyn has button eye bloom, and less peachy scent:

Her Evelyn blooms above are different from my 1993 short shrub form of Evelyn with below deeper pink & larger bloom than Golden Celebration behind it. My short shrub Evelyn is less than 3 feet tall for the past 14 years since I prune it down to 1 foot in spring, also prune it down to 1.5 foot after the 1st flush.

rosecanadian I'm tempted with your Grand Dame nice color & scent, how's Grand Dame winter hardiness? Thank you.

Duchess de Rohan has better bush beauty & stronger scent than any old garden roses in my garden (Comte de Chambord, Yolanda d'Aragon, Madame Isaac. Periere, Souvenir du President Lincoln, Centifolia, and La Reine).

Right now August 23, Comte de Chambord is a blackspot mess. La Reine and Yolanda d'Aragon throws stupid 6 feet tall canes, with 1 or 2 blooms max.

Duchess de Rohan gives a good 2nd flush with 7+ blooms in only 4 hours of morning sun, and another 3rd flush in late fall. It's compact and low thorn & good for the vase.

It doesn't sucker wildly like Centifolia. After a decade, Duchess de Rohan has a few shallow suckers which I dig up easily. Duchess de Rohan has perfect health (never see blackspots despite being next to the rainspout in poor drainage clay). I pruned it down to 1.5 foot after each flush:

Mx Chino Those Austins that you will kill: are they grafted on Dr.Huey (from David Austin), or are they own roots? I love my CONSTANT BLOOMER & own root Cading Mill (bought from Heirloom in 2012). This has blackspots but large bloom as own root:

Scepter d'Isle was bought as own root in 2012 and it was very healthy & never see blackspots. I gave it away since I don't like its myrrh scent & bush was too big.

I get blackspots on my 2nd year own root Golden Celebration, but NOT on my 15th-year own root Golden Celebration (its root got wider to get more water &nutrients).

I don't get blackspots on my own root Lady of Shalott (bought in 2016). It needs lots of water to bloom in only 4 hours of evening sun:

Where do you buy your Fashion Forward and Thierry Marx from? Those 2 are on my wish list. Thank you. Own root Liv Tyler was very vigorous & constant blooming but it died in its 3rd winter in my zone 5 & heavy clay, versus Austin roses are more zone 5 winter hardy. Below was my own root Liv Tyler, the scent was weird moth ball and sour apricot:

Straw - I overwinter my potted roses in the garage, so I don't know how Grand Dame does over winter outside. Here's a pic, though, to tempt you. This year, a lot of the blooms don't point upwards due to the rain, hail, and wind we've had. These shots aren't from this year.

Your Duchess de Rohan seems like a very good rose to get. My La Reine is in its 2nd year and, yes, it only has 2 blooms now...the first blooms ever from it. Not good to hear it doesn't get better. Ooooh, I love your Carding Mill!!!! Even though your Liv Tyler blooms are WOWZA, I won't get one (they're available here) since you say the fragrance is not pleasant. :) I got my Fashion Forward from a Canadian source that doesn't ship to the U.S.

Young bare root Fashion Forward. It has a wonderful fragrance.

Rose, yes the little balls of fertilizer leave that shell that does not dissolve.

Cressida here today.

Mx Chino, im with you. when a rose stops maling me smile, its out and sadly, a lot of roses have met Mr Shovel. Two roses that will never go are Olivia and Munstead.

I agree about Lady of Shalott. Once she held me unable to move in her thorny grasp , she was done. Gorgeous blooms but those long thorny canes were a pain and Desdamona, all I did was deadhead blooms that only lasted a couple of days.

Thanks everyone for your thorough reviews

Munstead Wood

Olivia austin

Kristine, those two photos are over the top. Just gorgeous!

Rose Paris, when I buy grafted roses, I bury the graft several inches under the soil line. I have done this to all of my roses since I moved to Arizona nearly 8 years ago where I technically don’t need to bury any grafts because it doesn’t get cold enough here. However, since I plant mine this way, I have not had any of mine suckering from the rootstock. I’d say close to half of my 200 plus roses are grafted and not one has suckered in this time. My understanding is that a rose planted in this way essentially goes “own root” in time.

Judi, for decades I've always buried the graft just like you, and I've never lost a rose to the cold or anything else (except a vole one year). And all but two of my roses are grafted. We have moderate winters in our zone 7 with one awful winter in 2016-17 that was more a zone 5 winter. I also have roses that are 20-21 years old and doing fine, not declining because they are grafted. As for the two own root roses I grow, one is a Julia Child and the other Abe Darby, the twig. My grafted Julias outshine the own root by a mile. And old Abe could stand a little improving himself. Diane

And yet, Diane, some of the experts will loudly warn us that planting the graft underground will rot out the graft and kill the plant… which we know is pish posh. I am guessing that your grafted roses all got a better start from being grafted but by now, the top stock has rooted well and is functioning as an own root, so you have the best of both worlds. One of the nursery owners I order from told me as much once in a conversation, encouraging me to plant all my grafts well under the soil line. And if people haven’t noticed, even DA has updated their planting instructions to advise planting the grafts underground in all zones, not just cold zones, if I’m not mistaken. Correct me if I’m wrong.

Judi, I've always heard that one should bury the graft, but I was already doing that by instinct, so I just kept on. I'm happy with the results. I never read the experts, including David Austin. I didn't realize Austin had changed their planting instructions. Diane

Sheila - the white, peach, and yellow colors are so sweet together. :) Beautiful!!! And who doesn't love a cobalt blue vase? :) :)

Kristine - your ORA is unreal!!!! SWOOOOON!!!!! I can't imagine having that many blooms on one bush.

Speaking of hips, has anyone ever tried to plant theirs to see what happens? I had never heard that about a grafted rose becoming own-root if the crown is buried? Is that because eventually the rose upon which it is grafted dies, and one or more the remaining stems shoot out their own roots? How does that work?

I had a couple of grafted roses that were not blooming much, that had the crown well buried. But in the process of SP'ing or moving them (to have better luck), I noticed that the lack of bloom was happening because almost all of the growth was coming from below the bud union (laxa , which offical DA's are grafted on in the Eu, does not always bloom from under the graft and is a once-bloomer in the best of cases). To take the exmple of Lady of Shallott, it was throwing out all kinds of long stems, but was blooming less and less. Thanks to gardening vlogs, I had learned how to check . for sucker growth above ground, and I noticed that some branches on LOS had very different leaves. When I dug deep down to check the crown, the sucker growth was so bad, it had taken over the bud union, and there was maybe a stray cane or two left of LOS that was impossible seperate from it, so I SP'd, as it never bloomed as much Lady Emma (or smelled as nice). Long stems, but more plant that flower!

Rose Paris Looks like your Laxa rootstock (in EU and UK) sucker just as bad as Pakistan's Centifolia rootstock. These Pakistans in their hot climate buried their roses (grafted on Centifolia) many inches below the ground, yet their Centifolia-rootstock suckered all over ... they switch to mainly own roots to avoid the problem.

Here in USA we have 2 types: Dr.Huey rootstock and multiflora rootstock. Dr.Huey doesn't sucker in my cold zone 5 since I always bury it at least 5 inches below ground. Plus my rock hard clay is hard for suckers to go through.

Below pic. is Pink Peace grafted on Dr.Huey dug up from my garden. Note the tiny own root on the left that grew from above the bud union. The right is Dr. Huey rootstock (a long & fat stick).

I had four decade-old Knockouts GRAFTED ON DR.HUEY. They never sucker since I buried them so deep in my heavy clay.

The 1st one was buried 1 foot deep below in soaking wet poor drainage clay (24/7 wetness), it lost Dr.Huey rootstock completely, and grew its decent size own root above.

A 2nd Knock-out was planted deep (at least 4 inch. below) in a dry spot nearby a tree. It never grow its own root above in my high rain climate (39 inch of rain plus 23 inch snow).

A 3rd Knock-out was planted deep in my heavy clay & high rain climate. It grew its own root above Dr.Huey, but the own root above is very small compared to the huge rootstock.

A 4th Knock-out was planted below a gutter that blocked some of the rain ... it's in partial shade. This did NOT grow its own root above Dr.Huey rootstock, despite being only 2 feet away from the rainspout that dumped lots of rain. For own root to grow, it needs a bit of constant moisture on the bud union, rather than tons of rain infrequently.

I had those 4 Knockouts for 12 years. The most constant blooming was the Knock-out that lost Dr.Huey & grew its own root above thanks to very wet & poor drainage clay and cold zone 5 winter.

The biggest bush was the Knock-out with both tiny own root above and Dr.Huey rootstock. Its own root above was very short 5 inches max, but Dr.Huey got big and spreaded 4 feet away ... took me 1 1/2 hours to dig up all Dr.Huey's roots.

Diane, I had always heard that if you live in zone 7 or colder, bury the graft. In zone 8 and above, leave the graft above the soil lune since it won’t freeze. But until recently, I had never heard any dire warnings against warm zoners burying the graft, but at a garden conference in my local town taught by a local well known horticultural expert, I heard the warning I mentioned earlier about never, ever burying the graft underground because the graft union will rot and fail and you’ll lose your plant. Wow. I sat there wondering how many people were swallowing it.

another rarely mentioned Austin that deserves more love than it gets is Darcy Bussel. This year she bloomed miuch more than Munstead with very similar blooms. She is the first and last to bloom and is always in bloom.

Kristine - I adore your Darcy Bussell!! I love how the folded petals reach upward. So lovely, and the color is utterly gorgeous!!!

@strawchicago z5, if the crown of your roses is buried too deep to get suckers in your clay, do you still manage to get new leader canes? @judijunebugarizonazn8, do you put stock in these new DA instructions? I have found a lof of their new business policies questionable, like cancelling all the dark reds here. As someone who grew up in zone 5 in the US, in the days when there was 60 below windchill, I had always heard you had to bury the bud union to keep rose from freezing. In my current climate, it can get so wet in November that anything could rot, above or below, so...

Rose Paris The Knock-outs in my garden which I dumped 1 foot of soil on top are narrow & small and 1/4 the size of the Knock-out which I didn't bury so deep. It's hard to get basal break or new leader canes when it's buried so deep under my rock hard clay.

Yes too wet in my poor drainage clay ROTTED a bunch of roses on Dr.Huey rootstock. Dr. Huey is a long & woody stick and it decays in acidic rain pooling up.

That's how I lost Young Lycidas (grafted on Dr.Huey) through my zone 5 winter since I buried it too deep (5 inch below) in poor drainage clay.

A Wisconsin rosarian said it's better to winter-protect by heaping leaves & wood chips on top, than burying the rootstock too deep, which prevents basal breaks or new leader canes.

I overwatered my roses on Dr. Huey rootstock, and 2 of them got rust. D'oh!!

Rose Paris, in my arid climate, rotting is one of the least of my worries. I’m in zone 8a as far as how cold it gets. Obviously, most of the climate stress my plants face comes from dry heat and wind, not cold. Burying the graft union has brought no trouble at all for me and I feel it has brought only good. I get a good amount of basal breaks from below the soil line this way and not once has Dr Huey come to light. The only rootstock to show its face in my garden here is Fortuniana. I received a Prospero rose from K&M roses that was supposed to be own root, but in the spring it threw up a beautiful shoot of Fortuniana. I hadn’t noticed it was grafted when I planted it and therefore had not buried it deeper.

Carol, your two new roses with rust don't have anything to do with them being on Dr. Huey. It's the varieties "on top" that are susceptible to rust... the rootstock has nothing to do with rust. I was going to say this to you the other day when you mentioned it on the seasonal thread, but then it got swamped by new comments and pics, so it was too late :-D

Totally agree with you Susan. Poor Huey always gets blamed for everything. I love my grafted roses on Huey. Never a problem. Rust is what's on the top as you said. Diane

Susan and Diane - thanks :) Well, that's an even better reason to get rid of poor varieties. lol

It's hard to get rid of them sometimes, like it's alive, and you think well, maybe... I told myself no new Austins for bare-root season because they have frustrated me so, and the EU catalog is done to the bare bones in any case, but I did find Wenlock at a small nursery. Opinions anyone, the actual color?

@Rose Paris

I grew 'Wenlock' back when it was a new-ish variety in the 1990s (in Toronto) and it was a dreadful plant: lots of long canes that bloomed only on the tips and sometimes just 12 foot canes that did nothing. It got Blackspot like it was going out of style, and blooms were mostly an insipid magenta color. One thing it did have going for it was that it was quite hardy in Zone 6b, and it had plenty of vigor — too much, maybe.

I'm sure some folks still grow it and get satisfactory results, but it wasn't much of a thing in my experience. YMMV, as they say.

@Paul Barden, thanks for the input! It sounds like what Mill on the Floss does. Well, maybe not the BS, but the huge upright canes, with the occasional, flower at the top, which often have the attractive aspect of wet toilet paper (or burnt toilet paper, depending the weather). It has gotten so "vigorous," may need helping removing it--like a tree. Hard pass, on Wenlock, then! On another topic, I did get a the potted Bayse's Purple--boomed right away, own roots, lots of buds, pretty! Cheers!