I would think so. I have heard Martha is tough.

Well, we're talking about thriving, not survival. Seriously though,. 6" deep hole?

When you said you removed rocks to a spade depth, I thought you could dig a shallower hole for the baby since the soil was already "spaded". Here, I have planted in some tough spots and often the roses have done well. A larger hole would also be very nice.

The feeder roots are shallower... The tap roots can go down several feet and travel horizontally even more searching for water. Perhaps it can get throgh the rocks, bit 6" seems a bit shallow. My pots are deeper tan that. Still, don't let thatstop you...roses are surprising!

Sorry, I meant it's a bed I've spaded deeply in parts that I used for vegetable gardening. This area is adjacent to those beds, so the soil/rock will be identical, but it was never dug up at all. Certainly tree roots can meander around in between rocks to seek out water, but I wasn't convinced that rose roots could do that.

Let's see. I believe the tap root is primarily for anchoring, while the feeder roots are where water and nutrients get in. If that's the case, making way for the tap root may not be all that important. That being said, I'm now seeing from guidance from nurseries that you do double-digging before planting a rose, to support tap root growth. But why? I'm not planning on running a truck into these roses, so anchoring isn't a big concern.

If you make your beds raised by bringing in good quality top soil to a depth, after settling, of say, 4" above present soil level, you should be able to keep from having to dig out 50# of rocks for each square foot of soil, as you stated.

Moses.

This is from DA's UK website and corresponds to what I've read and been told prior as well as personally experienced. I'm sure that with enough watering they'll do fine.

Roots

At the base of the plant lies its foundation - the roots, both tap and fibrous. The tap roots reach downwards, steady and purposeful, delving deep into the soil in search of moisture and stability. Around them spreads a network of finer, fibrous roots that draw in water and nutrients from the surrounding earth. Together, they anchor the rose securely and sustain it through the seasons ahead. Before planting, it is essential to soak the roots in a bucket of water for a few hours to rehydrate them after their journey and prepare them for new growth.

Yes, the soil is good. I've had it tested several times, but the volume of unprepared soil is about half rocks, ranging in size up to 20# or so. Those need to be fished out. Now, if I dig to a foot deep, what's down below is good soil intermixed with lots of rocks. In principle, a tap root ought to be able to find it's way around those rocks. To the extent that feeder roots are shallow, and the tap root can meander around rocks, why would I need to dig a two foot deep hole? Now, of course, roses do fine in pots, and they sure don't need a two foot deep pot to do so. Sorry, but 4" above present soil level doesn't make a lot of sense. What's below that is pretty solid and rocky. BTW, I understand that tap roots can grow horizontally, if necessary. That is, they don't have to grow straight down. You you don't need 3 feet depth of soil to have a 3 foot tap root. A tap root is a central dominant root. Not a direction.

1. The tsp root does provide moisture upeards and has small feeder roots. Its going downward in search of moisture and with deeo watering enables the rose to better withstand drought. Ive had tap roots go horizontally to a far distantance before heading downward to find water when the soil . They dont just anchor. At least that my umderstanding.

Dan, from this more detailed description, I think you'll be fine. Anchor roots (I've never thought of roses as having "tap roots". To me, a tap root is one big fat root, like a carrot, that goes straight down, and roses don't have that,they don't have one single dominant root. They have many anchor roots.) can easily work around rocks, grow horizontally, etc. Of course it's different in soil like a lot of mine is, where the deeper part in many places is hardpan . THAT kind of stuff does have to be broken up!

I think I'll just cultivate the whole bed and remove rocks down to a depth of one spade. That will allow roots to at least spread horizontally. I could just dig out deep holes under where I would plant each rose bush, but then the roots would just be restricted horizontally. My bed is 3x8 feet, and I've already hauled out a ton of rocks. I'm less worried about drought because this bed is on the edge of a lawn that gets remedial water. Roses do have tap roots, but it's true that a lot of anchoring is done by the finer feeder roots.

Actually, what I will do is cultivate the whole bed to spade depth, and then dig deep holes precisely where I will plant out my roses. If tap roots want to go straight down, they're welcome to do so.

That sounds like a plant, Dan! rocks are truly a drag to remove. I think many of us here can feel you!

When I plant roses in unimproved/native soil, I always dig a 2 x 2 hole...no matter if it's a bare root, potted rose, or band size rose (rooted cutting). I have dug up many mature roses and the roots and taproots do different things depending on the variety and the area they are planted. Roses are very adaptable in that way.

I have noticed that when roses are planted in a small hole in unimproved or un-dug soil, they do not thrive as well initially. Some roses will overcome and eventually thrive, and some will give up the ghost and fade away.

As far as depth for band size roses, I always plant them deeper than they are in the pot. So this small rose was planted in a 2 x 2 hole and a few inches deeper than it was in it's band pot. I would say 3-6 inches deeper, depending on the size of the plant.

Here are my small roses, planted deeply, mulched, and protected from rabbits and being stepped on.

Here is that same rose bed five years later...it's the one on the right. This planting method has worked really well for me, and I have never lost a single band-sized rose! I do have irrigation, which is an important caveat. I also amend with horse manure and add starter fertilizer when digging the 2x2 hole.

Good luck with your rose planting!

Wow, that's impressive after only 5 years, Rosylady! What are the roses, and how did you figure out the spacing?

So I have a 3x8 foot hole, dug way deeper than the pot at the planting site. To the extent that all plants root farther than their dripline, and to the extent that these roses, when mature, can be 2 feet wide, 4 plants in a 3x8 bed should do OK. There are no-till skeptics in the gardening community, but in my case, it was largely about rock removal.

bart...thank you! The baby roses in the first pic are 'Madame Isaac Periere', 'Maggie', 'Souvenir du President Lincoln', 'Old Town Novato', 'Paul Neyron', Gloire de Ducher', 'Souvenir du Dr Jamain', Later I added more roses, and you can see that in the later pic. For spacing, I leave a lot of space between the roses, because things get larger here due to our mild winters. If a rose gets 4x4, I make sure to plant it with an extra 1-2 feet clearance from the mature size of the roses around it.

daninthedirt....digging the entire bed is way better than digging single holes....your four roses will love it! Hopefully it's four roses that stay narrow....but with a lovely big root run they may get larger than expected.