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kendrahhendra

UPDATE - Backsplash installation

3 months ago
last modified: last month

UPDATE - I had the splash primed with zinnzer zero no voc primer. Painted with Aura eggshell in Maritime white. Don’t knownif my painters used one or two coats of Aura. We’ll see how well it hold up but I thinknit looks great. Scroll for pics.



See in comments below of progress on the backsplash.

The walls here are very hard plaster, kitchen from 1948. No drywall in here.

1. What are the basic steps for removing a kitchen backsplash and installing new subway tiles, and what products should be used? I see so many after the fact posts on Houzz about tile installation done incorrectly. I'd like to know what the correct steps are so I can ask when getting quotes from installers.

2. What would be the steps for removing the tile from plaster wall, just painting the wall, and running a 4" corian strip of countertop? I think the kitchen would look much better without a full tile splash. I presume the countertops are 15 year old Corian. Even if I can get the same Corian pattern (and I think I can) will they have aged differently and look bad together?

The walls are super hard plaster, the counters Corian. This is an inexpensive second home near my parents, doesn't need to be a masterpiece given the outdatedness of everything else in here. Nothing else is worth replacing given who buys into this building. But I want a correct install and to understand what to look for in talking to a contractor about how they would do the job.

BEFORE



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Comments (49)

  • 3 months ago

    this is strictly my opinion. If it were mine.

    If all you are really after is a fresh change up to a kitchen you said was a 2nd home, not ready for an overhaul, YET.

    I would paint the existing backsplash first with KILZ® Adhesion Primer. Then a topcoat of a color you want, compliments your existing countertop, and can live with.

    What you will end up with is a smooth, light tile with texture, as if you choose a solid color tile in the same configuration that you already have.

    A day or two of painting labor, and the cost of a gal. of primer, and a gal. of finish paint.


    Kendrah thanked Lyn Nielson
  • 3 months ago

    @Lyn Nielson - Yes! That would be my first choice too. But, I have a ton of joint pain and am ridiculously sensitive to paint smells. (Ugh, autoimmune diseases!) I think the scrubbing, sanding, and painting is going to be too much for my body.


    I have considered doing a crappy job of it - not sanding, quickly rolling on some Kilz while wearing a huge respirator mask, and staying at my parent's apartment while the smell off gasses. See how terrible it looks and how long it lasts. And then I thought paying someone to install a splash might be more pracitcal.

  • 3 months ago

    What about peel and stick vinyl backsplash tile? It could just go over the existing tile.

    The 2nd home/loft my sister bought here had this and she didn't even know it wasn't real tile.


    Honestly in a house bought to be convenient to a relative that will be sold as soon as it's no longer needed, I wouldn't bother.

    Kendrah thanked palimpsest
  • 3 months ago

    no need for sanding or scrubbing as you say...

    Wipe it off and paint on the Primer. Let it dry and paint on the top coat.

    that's the whole idea, Do it and be done. As far as the smell/fumes, I don't notice any with KILZ primer.

    Hire someone to do it. Get some painters tape and tape off the countertop edge and paint.

    couldn't be easier.

    Kendrah thanked Lyn Nielson
  • 3 months ago

    Thanks for the encouragement @Lyn Nielson. I’d looked at many youtube tutorials and everyone was using degreasers and sanding, sometimes multiple rounds of sanding. I don’t think I can hire anyone for such a small painting job. But if I can just role it on with no hard cleaning and sanding, and it doesn’t smell, I can give it a whirl. If it looks crappy I could always just go with tile.


    @palimpsest - Good to know they have improved the look of peel and stick. I’ve seen some pretty bad ones. I’ve been concerned too that the plastic of them would be smelly.

  • 3 months ago

    @Lyn Nielson - What are your thoughts on this primer Zinsser bulls eye zero? I looked up the Kilz and think the VOC levels would kill me.




  • 3 months ago

    the Zinsser 123 or Extreme Adhesion will work, I've never used the zero.

    you mentioned above rolling it on.

    I personally would not do that as you may get a thick coating rather than brushing on a light coat over the grout lines and tile.

    You can always apply a second coat.

    It sounds to me, like this is not a project for you to tackle.

    Kendrah thanked Lyn Nielson
  • 3 months ago

    I chuckled at: "It sounds to me, like this is not a project for you to tackle." You are right! Between the odors and my obvious lack of skill... But, now I'm somewhat encouraged to try.


    I mentioned rollers because that is what all the YouTube gals were using who painted their splashes. If I use a brush won't there be a lot of brush strokes? Could I brush on with a foam brush? As you can tell, I suck at painting. I have painted a few second hand bookcases and chairs in my life and there were drips and streaks everywhere!

  • 3 months ago
    last modified: 3 months ago

    You are smart to remove that grey black backsplash as it clashes horribly with the brown toned cabinets. Be sure to use warm tones in new backsplash. Removing it will most likely require drywall repair. Go with white appliance - they never have and never will be out of style like stainless or black which are both on the way out. And get a new stove - those flat tops are difficult to cook on and the black top clashes with the kitchen - ugh.

    Kendrah thanked terrib962
  • 3 months ago

    My sister lives in a 100+ year old house. just because you have plaster doesn’t mean you have to keep it. You can remove the tile and if the plaster is ruined you cut the lath out and replace it with drywall or cement board or whatever your tile installer wants to use. There is a possibility that the plaster won’t be destroyed, but if it is, it’s not a deal breaker or a wallet buster.

    BUT HERE’S THE THING. You have glass tile. Demoing glass tile is how I ended up having surgery on my finger. I’ve written about several times, so I’m relieved you are hiring a contractor. It’s a filthy, dangerous job removing and prepping for a new installation.

    They may decide to remove a row of tiles and saw through the plaster to remove the tile en mass. That’s what I’d do if it were drywall. And as much as I love tile, I would 100% go for the 4” Corian. Will it be a different dye lot? Yeah. even so it’s your cleanest option.

    Kendrah thanked eam44
  • 3 months ago
    last modified: 3 months ago

    Ugh, sorry about your finger surgery. No worries here - I'm not demo-ing anything. I can't even figure out how to paint. :)

    Is it difficult for this kind of lathe demo-ing to be done without messing up the cabinets and countertops? We in no way want to replace these cabinets. All I can imagine is taking a sledge hammer to the wall. How exactly is it done? I presume it is not too common to do this kind of a demo with counters and cabinets in place. Correct?

  • 3 months ago

    I think you’d be surprised. Most often when done on a grand scale you would remove all of the plaster and lath from ceiling to floor and replace it with drywall. But the previous owner may have done that before installing your cabinets. And even if he didn’t, you can marry a plaster wall with a drywall repair. It is not at all uncommon.

    Backsplash changes that retain the cabinets and counter tops are very common around houzz, although we may not represent average folks.

    It’s a seizure inducing backsplash tile. I’m so glad you’re getting rid of it.

    Kendrah thanked eam44
  • PRO
    3 months ago

    Painting would be an optimal cheap and easy solution.

    Kendrah thanked Norwood Architects
  • PRO
    3 months ago

    I think right now painting those tiles is what you need to do > I would normally use Klenk but with your issues a good primer and as mentioned you might need to be gone with all windows open for 2 days at least winter is still not here ,

    Kendrah thanked Patricia Colwell Consulting
  • 3 months ago

    I really like Pal's peel and stick idea. Much easier than contractors tromping in and out, prep and paint smell for days.
    I would order a package to test it out, have family member open it and air it out on a balcony. Perhaps you can use thin cotton gloves while you are putting it up to eliminate your direct exposure.

    Kendrah thanked deegw
  • 3 months ago

    Have you considered contact paper?

    It's just a thought.

    Kendrah thanked mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY)
  • 3 months ago

    In 1948, it would most likely be plasterboard or Rock Lath under the plaster which is almost like drywall.

    I have never seen anyone use sledge hammers for demo unless the entire house was being gutted to the party walls (I live in a rowhouse city) or on HGTV shows. This would be dissected out by cutting it and removing it (while avoiding plumbing and electrical in the walls.

    Actually I think having a pro carefully remove this and patching the backsplash area with new drywall without any damage to upper cabinets and countertop would cost more than it was worth.

    You could also just tile right over this tile. I've seen that done.

    Kendrah thanked palimpsest
  • 3 months ago
    last modified: 3 months ago

    This is all great brainstorming. Thanks.

    The fridge wall is shared with the neighboring unit and solid as concrete. No plasterboard there for sure. Therefore, I concur with @palimpsest that cutting out the wall without damage to the uppers will cost more than it is worth.

    I like the idea of tiling on top. Do any of these situations change your mind about doing it and how would you remedy them?

    This is just a sample Dalitle I have on hand to show the depth.

    - Door trim. The tile would sit almost flush with the door trim. Not ideal but fine enough, do you agree?





    - Window Trim Tile on top would be proud of the window trim. Could a bullnosed edge tile take care of this and look passable or would it be completely awful?





    - Next to fridge. The current tile just stops with a ragged edge next to the fridge. (Classy right?!) If I tile over it will be two tiles deep of ragged edge. What kind of trim can be applied there to finish it off?


    For context, these apartments are purchased either by the wealthy parents of mostly international undergrads, med students doing residency, and a wide range of retirees some who drive old Toyotas and others with Audi's and Mercedes. This is the lowest priced unit in the building, and always will be.

    *** Whatever fix I do now, I want to be the last before putting it on the market in 5-10 years. I don't want to redo this again. ***

  • 3 months ago
    last modified: 3 months ago

    Daltile is nice, inexpensive, high-quality tile that has the trim pieces you need and offers some lovely glaze options.

    I understand the desire to save money, but price out what it will cost to do this correctly before you make the decision to tile over existing tile. Your tile is going to be even with or proud of your trim and neither is great. You’ll see the double tiling when you pull out your fridge or stove. I understand that you don’t value that property highly, but you value your eyes a lot and you’re going to see where you’ve cut corners every time you look at it. Not everything has to be high end, but it should be done correctly if possible.

    Kendrah thanked eam44
  • 3 months ago

    @eam44 I appreciate your take on it. Do you think that the Dalitle pieces at the window and door trim will look acceptable enough or absurdly wonky? If you had to choose between tiling over and painting over the tile, which would you do?


    (I'm totally fine seeing the double tile when pulling out appliances. You'd die if you saw the double tiling job done in the bathroom here and visible inside the vanity cabinet - old 1949 turquoise peeking out beneath 2000's Tuscan faux travertine. Yikes! I'm not touching that.)


    It isn't just the price that concerns me about having the current tile demo'ed but the risk it runs demo'ing the thick plaster walls and damage being done to the cabinets and who knows what else. These are not just easy to cut swaths of drywall or plasterboard. It feels like picking at a thread and seeing a sweater unravel. My luck with contractors is not good enough. I feel like I'd be opening a can of worms.


    If I don't tile over, I will just have it painted over.

  • 3 months ago

    I would also paint the tile - i’d want the backsplash just to recede and as you say the new tile over old will sit more forward (and likely look bumpy in the space)

    Kendrah thanked la_la Girl
  • 3 months ago

    I think the reveal next to the door trim looks fine. As to the window, is it possible to build out that trim with an overlay of 1/4" mdf (it paints beautifully) or poplar? It looks like the sill depth could handle it. Next to the fridge...that edge could be cleaned up with a Schluter edge. Just some possible work-around ideas if you decide to over-tile.

    Kendrah thanked melindas1977
  • 3 months ago

    Its fine next to the door. the window would drive me crazy and one other area to be concerned about is the space behind the faucet. in the photo it looks like it could impact that negatively. keep in mind you will also have additional thickness from the mortar.



    Kendrah thanked wsea
  • 3 months ago

    “keep in mind you will also have additional thickness from the mortar.“


    So helpful, thank you. This could be the deal breaker for tiling on top of existing tile. The mortar could make the tile too proud of the trim to be a reasonable solution.


    “ As to the window, is it possible to build out that trim with an overlay of 1/4" mdf (it paints beautifully) or poplar?”


    Someone has already built out the trim and there is no more room to add because the cabinets are in the way.

  • 3 months ago

    For a little context, this is inside the bathroom vanity. And this is the shower.








    I will not renovate this bathroom. I will just be painting the turquoise to look ever so slightly less janky. And when we sell I will price the unit accordingly.


    I’m quite realistic about not making a profit when we sell this. It is an apartment that will have served our needs. It is a place to be when visiting my parents - not an investment.


    Does this context change anyone’s mind about how the backsplash is treated?



  • 3 months ago

    You could just add the thicker trim under the cabinets, like the trim had to be cut in order to install the cabinets. And you could make the apron under the window extend to the countertop and not add more time under there at all. It would take some designing, but if you want to change this backsplash without demolition, you are going to have some negatives, just like you do with demolition.

  • 3 months ago

    how about you try the Zinsser Zero on the tile inside the vanity cabinet and see what you think of it?

  • 3 months ago

    Smart idea @Lyn Nielson. Thank you.

  • 3 months ago

    When I had to choose I chose DIY/surgery 😂

    I would paint. It’s faster, easier, less expensive, and you get to choose your exact color. It requires a high-adhesion primer and a durable epoxy paint like SW Emerald Urethane Trim Enamel, so you might need to be out of that space for an extended period of time with your sensitivities. I hope that helps.

    BTW, while they are at it they could paint the tile inside (why?) the vanity. You can also ask your cleaner to try to clean that shower grout with Clorox toilet bowl cleaner.


  • 3 months ago

    Tell me just how useless this painting of the backsplash might be and what I'll be in for if I use a zero voc acrylic latex paint from SW or BM.


    I have to use low or no VOC paint. I simply cannot risk using something like the urethane trim enamel. Sometimes it takes months or longer for products to off-gas to the point where I am not sensitive.


    "You can also ask your cleaner to try to clean that shower grout with Clorox toilet bowl cleaner."


    What a ruin my plans to select a wall paint color to match the dirty shower grout?! 😂

  • 3 months ago

    I agree with those that are saying use the peel and stick tiles. They make really nice ones now, and they seem to go on very easily. My granddaughter used them in her kitchen, and 2 yrs later, she peeled them off, and put on new ones, to match her changing decor.

  • 3 months ago

    Does anyone have suggestions for the best brands of peel and stick tiles? I have seen some in person at Home Depot that looked cheap and fake. But I'm open to using other ones if any of you have recommendations.


    I need an off-white, biscuit subway.

  • 3 months ago

    Our realtor and I agreed it is the one thing that must be changed before we list it in the future. It really ages the kitchen and is such a turn off in listing photos. So why not do it now so we don't have to be visually accosted by it for the next five or more years when we stay here?


    The other thing that needs to be done is the crappy "wood" flooring in the bedrooms. Some of the seams are looking like raggedy cardboard. It is awful. But, I can handle living with that until we move. The off gassing of new inexpensive flooring will kill me.

  • 3 months ago
    last modified: 3 months ago

    I deleted my comment but you're right the tile does not photograph well!

    You could credit the new floors in escrow. Your Realtor would decide if that's mentioned in the listing but would only draw attention to them.

    Kendrah thanked tracefloyd
  • PRO
    3 months ago

    I would leave it alone. This is a temporary place for you, so why agonize over a backsplash? Your realtor says to update it before you list it. That’s ironic considering the person you bought it from didn’t. And you bought it anyway.

  • 3 months ago

    That’s ironic considering the person you bought it from didn’t. And you bought it anyway.


    This unit sat for at least 6 months, continual price lowering. I was in a totally desperate situation and that's why I bought it. There is obviously more wrong with it than just a backsplash. But, I'm a big believer in listing at the correct price and taking care of a few major eyesores to make a sale more competitive.

  • 3 months ago
    last modified: 3 months ago

    What about Formica? Very thin, .027" and easy to cut to shape. No thick thinset...just glue it over the existing tile.

    I found this but not familiar with the company:

    https://wurthlac.com/laminate-finder?45938=2

    Notice the thickness options which are considered vertical grade:


    Kendrah thanked tracefloyd
  • last month

    Congratulations! It's nice to see your progress.

    Kendrah thanked amystoller
  • last month

    That looks promising! Next, the bathroom?

    Kendrah thanked John Liu
  • last month

    Yes, bathroom is being painted this week too, though will not be quite as big of a transformation.

  • last month

    WOW! Feels calmer already!

    Kendrah thanked kimbers333
  • last month

    What a transformation - and the subtle bleedthrough of the underlying color is actually appealing!

  • last month

    Kendrah - I probably missed it - but what color will you be using on your backsplash?

  • last month
    last modified: last month

    @dani_m08 - I used Ben Moore maritime white, Aura eggshell. It doesn't match any of the colors in the countertops but seems to coordinate well enough with it. There are other colors that matched it but there were too grey and washed out. I wanted the paint to brighten things up a bit.

    I used maritime what in another kitchen of mine and loved it.

  • last month
    last modified: last month

    Wow that looks terrific! - clean, calm and crisp, what a fabulous turnout for your project

    Kendrah thanked la_la Girl
  • last month

    Thanks @la_la Girl. I’ll update this thread after a while to report on how durable it is and whether it chips easily.



  • last month

    What a great difference, looks wonderful!


  • last month

    Wonderful.