Personally I think volume of people isn’t as important as the experience and knowledge of individuals and I’ve found that there are a lot of the latter on this forum especially in contrast to Facebook groups. The latter have thousands of people and get more and more people each month but the drawback is that information isn’t always useful or searchable, often there are dozens of people talking over each other and the overall the vibe is less about learning to garden and more about impressing others. If no one answered anyone else’s questions on this forum, I’d be concerned but I don't think that is the case.

In the spirit of this season I am definitely grateful for the people I’ve made aquaintances with and the knowledge that has been offered and look forward to learning more.

I’ve noticed a definite shift in the forum over the past couple of years. There’s a lot more talk about what people are buying and the sharing of catalog content, and less sharing of practical horticulture technique and photos of roses people grow themselves. To me, that’s been an unfortunate change, because it was the practical, experience-based conversations I found most valuable.

This isn’t meant as a criticism of anyone — just my take on how things have evolved. I still think this forum is far more active and cohesive than most gardening discussions online, and I believe that has merit.

Spot on and well said Knightsgambit, that's how I feel about the Facebook groups. Lovely people on there, but there are so many, and misinformation and drama is rampant.

I've been a long time lurker of Houzz, this has always been my go-to source for rose advice and information. So thankful for all the knowledgable people taking time to contribute and share their wisdom

Agree with Paul and Sheila’s post.

I love this forum, I do not participate on other social medial platforms. It has been difficult for me to post between work and the house, when I have some free time I am actually trying to get some stuff done outside.

New garden means all my plants look too small or too weak to share at the moment so I just keep an eye on the posts hopping to see roses from others gardens or health reviews.

I stay away from all the posts about florist roses or new vendors for the most part since my growing conditions would not be suitable to those and after being scammed once I learned my lesson.

Hopping there are lots of wonderful posts about all of your gardens next spring. Praying all those away due to health reasons recover and joins us soon.

I'm a relative newbie to this forum, but I'll just add that I appreciate the community on here. I should probably be on a houseplant forum, but I like rose people the best. Glad you haven't kicked me out yet ;)

I mostly read/post on ballet forums, and they could never exist without moderators. It's a testament to this forum that the conversations remain pretty civil and supportive without moderation.

At the same time, I don't mean to invalidate how Moses and any others feel, especially since you all have been the long-term posters who have kept this forum alive. I can imagine how the shifts in the forum may feel.

Susan -- I can only take credit for feeding the GRF Houzz thread into Chat GPT and asking it to imagine a multi-episode soap opera. I have very mixed feelings about AI, but it did a good job with that task and made me laugh.

As to the show-off-itis, I think of it as sharing. This forum would mean so much less to me if I couldn't see beautiful bushes and blooms. I get to see roses that I don't grow, and they become part of the garden of my mind. :)

Well put, Carol. Diane

windowsill. would you mind posting a link to the soap opera? If not here, then on the Seasonal thread? My son uses AI regularly. He looked up what it suggested for a festive platter the other day. It said something like "and some fancy people pretend they like fruit"!

elena, I loved your fairytale. Do you write professionally?

dianela, I'd love to see photos of your new garden, no matter how small your new roses. I'm more interested in people's lived experiences. And it really worries me that some have little or no regard for breeder's rights and phytosanitary requirements. What nursery will consider the time, money and effort required to introduce a new rose, if the rose is then sold illegally by others?

@titian1 10b Sydney, thanks! No, I don’t write professionally.

Many good comments on this thread! Paul, I agree with you-things have shifted more than I personally would prefer away from gardening experience and towards just acquiring plants.

" I'm more interested in people's lived experiences. And it really worries me that some have little or no regard for breeder's rights and phytosanitary requirements. What nursery will consider the time, money and effort required to introduce a new rose, if the rose is then sold illegally by others? " titian, I agree heartily with you,and I find it very comforting to know that I'm not alone.

OH NO! Well, one thing for sure is "wrong" with the Roses forum-and it's spelled "Houzz".

I could not log in for several days,until, fumbling and blundering about, I managed to do so-apparently as a "PRO"!!! I did NOT do this on purpose and I DON'T consider myself to be a "PRO", but I don't know how to undo it! So please, everyone, ignore this in the future. It's just a Houzzian flack-up.If any of you know how to fix this, please let me know!

@titian1 10b Sydney: "it really worries me that some have little or no regard for breeder's rights and phytosanitary requirements. What nursery will consider the time, money and effort required to introduce a new rose, if the rose is then sold illegally by others?"

This isn't a new problem, but the Internet has enabled new ways to engage in "workarounds" that skirt regulations. The issue of import/transport of live plant materials between regions where rules regulate how (or IF!) it's done is incredibly worrying — consider, please, what you may be acquiring besides a new plant when buying from an entity that can't (or won't) provide a nursery license, or phytosanitary papers when required. There are sellers on platforms like Etsy that completly disregard the regulations (no witchhunts, please).

You don't want to be the person who ends up identified as the importer of a pathogen new to a region, like Sudden Oak Death Phytophtora.

As for breeder's right and intellectual property, I gave up trying to police how my work was being distributed years ago — that's pretty much a lost cause. If I knew then what I know now, I would have patented everything.

Bart, it looks like you've accidentally bought the Houzz subscription. According to Google, to cancel it go to Settings > Subscriptions > Manage My Subscriptions and submit a cancellation request

She's not a native English speaker.

@windowsill_gardener you did a great job with this story so I hope you don't mind if I share it for the other members of this forum. As the disclaimer says it's pure fiction and for entertainment, I hope every person which the fictional characters are based off of can see it as such. It's humor that builds camaraderie and friendship.

Disclaimer: This is fiction and is presented for entertainment purposes only.

🌹 “Thorns of Grace” (Soap Opera Outline)

Main Cast (inspired by the thread)

• Grace Lancaster – glamorous rose farm owner, a brilliant marketer hiding dark secrets.
• Cole Campbell – her “plant expert,” with a murky past and questionable advice.
• Elena Novak – a loyal customer turned whistleblower after receiving diseased roses.
• Kitty North – an enthusiastic defender of Grace, but her loyalty may blind her.
• Lily Finch – once devoted, now a bitter ex-customer who feels betrayed.
• Dave Wyatt – nostalgic gardener who pre-ordered a rare rose years in advance, now worried it will never arrive.
• Roses Clayborne – outspoken critic with damning knowledge about Grace and Cole’s past dealings.
• Nancy Stiver – newly hired “Customer Relations Manager,” trying to clean up the mess but caught in the crossfire.
• Francis Andrade – powerful rival grower, charming but ruthless, circling like a hawk to take over.

Episode 1 – “The Gall”

Elena receives her long-awaited shipment of roses, only to discover grotesque swellings on the roots. She posts photos online, sparking outrage. Grace assures everyone it’s “just cosmetic” — but Cole secretly instructs staff to cut the galls off before shipping.
Cliffhanger: Elena vows to escalate to agricultural authorities. A shadowy figure is shown burning documents at Grace’s farm.

Episode 2 – “Cut at the Root”

Lily shares that her roses are dying. Kitty defends Grace passionately, while Roses Clayborne hints at Grace’s “old scandals.” Dave nervously awaits his prized “Evelyn” rose. Grace hosts a livestream, smiling — while backstage, Cole warns her the infection may have spread to every supplier.
Cliffhanger: A mysterious package arrives at Elena’s door with no return label… inside, a dead rose covered in gall.

Episode 3 – “The Deleted Thread”

A major online discussion thread disappears overnight. Conspiracy theories swirl. Elena suspects sabotage. Nancy Stiver is introduced as Grace’s new PR hire, trying to calm furious customers.
Cliffhanger: Elena receives an anonymous email: “If you value your garden — dig deeper. The rot isn’t just in the roses.”

Episode 4 – “The Rival’s Bloom”

Francis Andrade announces his rival company will offer the same roses, healthier and cheaper. Customers begin defecting. Grace insists she still has “exclusive” varieties.
Cliffhanger: Francis is revealed meeting secretly with Cole — are they working together?

Episode 5 – “Withering Trust”

Nancy tries to issue refunds, but Grace blocks her, demanding loyalty. Lily threatens legal action. Elena prepares her evidence for the Department of Agriculture.
Cliffhanger: Nancy finds a hidden file on Grace’s laptop labeled: “Cole – OneLove Scandal.”

Episode 6 – “The Expert”

The truth about Cole’s shady past at another nursery surfaces. Customers whisper that he was run out of Dallas after defrauding growers. Grace stands by him publicly — but privately, she questions his loyalty.
Cliffhanger: Roses Clayborne leaks a recording of Grace mocking her customers as “desperate gardeners who’ll buy anything.”

Episode 7 – “The Rot Spreads”

Reports flood in: crown gall is appearing in gardens across the region. Agricultural officials finally get involved. Elena’s own prized collection is at risk. Grace panics as inspectors approach the farm.
Cliffhanger: Inspectors dig up a rose at GRF — and beneath it is a mass grave of diseased plants.

Episode 8 – “Betrayal in Bloom”

Francis offers Nancy a job to switch sides. Elena’s garden begins collapsing. Lily reveals that Grace’s barn fire years ago wasn’t an accident — it was insurance fraud.
Cliffhanger: Cole disappears, leaving behind only a note: “Don’t trust Grace.”

Episode 9 – “The Thorned Crown”

Grace hosts a glamorous gala to save her reputation, showing off new Japanese varieties. But Elena storms in with proof of deliberate deception. Nancy is torn between exposing the truth or protecting her job.
Cliffhanger: Francis interrupts the gala with shocking evidence — Grace’s farm is bankrupt.

Episode 10 – “Deadly Bouquet”

Chaos erupts: customers demand refunds, lawsuits fly, and inspectors close in. Grace and Francis face off in a brutal negotiation. Elena contemplates walking away — but someone poisons the rare “Evelyn” rose before it can bloom.
Final Cliffhanger: The camera pans to the dead rose… and in its soil, a fresh gall begins to swell.

TESTING, TESTING.... This is bart. After much frustration, with help from my DH, I finally managed-I hope -to delete the stupid PRO thing by completely deleting my Houzz account and starting from scratch with a different browser and a different email and user name. Let's see if it worked...

I’m sorry, Bart. What a frustrating experience! You’re still marked as a PRO on this last post.

First, thank you windowsill and knightsgambit -- what a fun soap opera. I've not been watching the GRF thread, so now I'm wondering what has really been going on! I hope no one has a garden full of gall because of GRF... Also, I am saddened by the loss of some of the more experienced gardeners, as it's been nice to learn from them. But as others pointed out, some are aging, some have multiple responsibilities from caregiving to working. I like the community on this forum. I enjoyed the fun of the enchanted kingdom post, but that's (for the most part) not been my experience. I've met some wonderful, kind, lovely people on this forum, and it's become more than a resource -- it's been a little village. Having said that, I do tend to skip the posts that seem to focus on acquiring more more more (and from dodgy sellers). Many of us joke that we have "problems" when it comes to buying too many roses. Maybe it's endemic to the times we live in. Still -- I appreciate this forum and all the many voices that create the village. If I had more time, I'd be here more frequently!

p.s. BartBart -- so sorry -- your tagline says "pro" (but no longer in red) and your user name is HU-690802241.

I hate when friends turn into numbers.

From bart, posted on other forum:

...if so, could I humbly ask you for a favour? I have had to cancel my membership to the Houzz forums.
The only way Houzz allowed me to sign in was if I signed in as a "PRO", and I was afraid that I would have to pay for this "PRO" membership, so I wrote to them asking to completely cancel my membership. This is sad-so many people on those forums are really kind of friends, even though I only know them "digitally". I still read the Houzz forums (Roses and Antique Roses), but I can't post or even "like" posts. So, if any of you are indeed on those forums, the favour I have to ask of you is just to let the people on these forums know that this is the reason why I've "disappeared".
Supposedly , after about 30 days the deletion of my Houzz account will be complete. After this,I hope to re-sign up, with a different name and email,if it is possible.
Thank you in advance from bart

Thank you, Elena, for posting this to let us know why she “ disappeared “. I hope the plan works and she can eventually sign back in and join us here again. If not, at least we know why.

I think when the forum started in its early days , most of the posters were real rose experts . Eventually over the years most of them left for some reason or the other , and normal gardeners/rose growers started to join in .

Sadly these days I hesitate before I can ask a question because most of the posters are like me . They are learning/ experimenting themselves .

That is probably true @Pink Rose(9b, FL ), but I still feel eveyone's experience is relevant. Many people are very observant and while their obserrrrrrrrvations may not apply to my situation, they may to someone else's, especially concerning local conditions. I don't really consider it a waste to ask. It also really depends who is reading the posts; some folks nip in and out.

Thanks for posting that Elena. I hoped to do it earlier sssssssso kudos. Excuse the typing.

At what point does someone become an "expert" ? Does it require an advanced degree in horticulture or having roses named after you? I think of folks on this forum who've been gardening nearly their whole lives, now in their 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s .... at what point would they be considered experts? I've been gardening for 30 years. But I always learn something new from the "non-experts" on this forum! Yes, some are brand new to roses. But I think many more are quite experienced. But we've also grown up in different eras, regions, contexts. We sometimes offer advice as if it is universal...but then someone else gently reminds us that context is key. I like that we have such a range of perspectives and levels of experience. I miss the people who've moved on -- but I also treasure many of the people still here!

One thing, for those of us around long enough ago, those of us then who held Karl Bapst and his contemporaries in great regard, it was the height of bad manners to hijack a fellow Roses Forum member's post with off subject material. It just wasn't done. Nowadays, manners are out the window. Anything goes.

Moses.

Oh! I never realized that, Moses! Guilty as charged, but for my own posts, I don't mind at all and often welcome the direction the OT posts take.

I love people throwing everything in there too.

I suppose mockery is to be expected on the Roses Forum as well.

Moses.

I agree with you, Sheila. And Vapor, go ahead and be as guilty as you want. This forum will stay fresher and more welcoming if we quit worrying about how great the olden days were. Diane

I joined this forum in early 1998, and it was great then, and it has been great ever since. Time moves on and things change. There has been a massive trend away from gardening since its peak in the 90s, when there were a huge number of specialty magazines and rose nurseries. Forums change and new people find them. Off-topic comments are often the source of great discussions, leading to new rose conversations.

@Moses, Pitt PA, cold W & hot-humid S, z6, I hope you know I would never mock you.

Yes, that absolutely goes without saying, Vapor!

Moses.

Moses, if I have ever been guilty of mocking you or anyone else on this forum, I apologize.

Thank you! Apology gladly accepted.

How I wish I either gardened in a climate identical to yours, or you gardened in one identical to mine. That way we could be a greater help to each other in our rose exploits. I do believe that you are as close to gardening in a rose paradise as one could wish for, while given a choice, no one in their right mind would choose to grow roses in this black spot 'Apocalyptica,' and, 'Arctic Fury,' periodic winter event that kills well grown, good sized bushes to the ground. I often feel like I am starting over again from square one just about every 6th. year.

If I had any brains left in my old age, I would turn the rose bed into a dwarf conifer bed. Easy, peasy...delightful to the eye, with minimal care needed. But I love roses too much to throw in the towel!

Moses.

Moses

Own root or grafted , I actually start from scratch every 3 years ! My local rose society closed a few years ago . I rarely see anyone growing roses around me exept for knockout rroses .It is an on going struggle with disease and chilli thrips , spider mites .

Moses, thank you for accepting my apology. But pardon me, please, for being bold enough to ask you when and how I mocked you? I am perplexed. I highly respect you and think of you as a wise person and gardener and have never felt anything even close to wanting to mock you… but apparently you felt it from me. Please clue me in! I realize I’m not always sensitive and perhaps don’t pick up on nuances in a conversation, but I am honestly stumped. I’ve been wracking my brain and come up with nothing, so I implore you to enlighten me. I don’t want to show disrespect for anyone.

judi, I was wondering the same thing.

That's what I was thinking.

Judi,

Your exemplary conduct is without question.

Moses.

Thank you, Moses. That’s very kind of you. I sincerely DO want to know, however, if I have belittled you or anyone else here on this forum. I’m very human and need to be reminded, so call me out if I behave badly in any way!

As for being neighbors and sharing garden tips, I’d be delighted if you moved to the vacant house next door and started a garden! I’m sure you’d enjoy the weather here. But please don’t ask me to move to Pittsburgh and share in your cold winter weather there…. I’m an absolute wimp when it comes to anything freezing temps or below.

Sorry, can’t resist.

📜 The Book of Moses, Chapter Houzz

1. And it came to pass in the latter days of the Roses Forum,

when the threads multiplied and the comments did wander,

that Moses of Pitt, dwelling in the land of Zone Six,

lifted up his voice and was sore displeased.

2. For he beheld the people speaking of many things:

of grafted roots and own roots,

of thrips and mites,

and yea, even of matters not asked.

3. And Moses said unto the forum,

“What aileth thee, O Roses Forum?

For in the days of Karl Bapst, peace was upon the land,

and no man hijacked a thread,

neither to the left nor to the right.”

4. And the people heard these words and were troubled in spirit.

They rent their garments (metaphorically),

and said one to another,

“Have we sinned?

Did we speak out of turn?

Was it my post about mulch?”

5. And many rose up early to apologize,

though they knew not for what.

And they said,

“Forgive us, O Moses,

for we meant no mockery,

nor sarcasm,

nor even mild deviation.”

6. And Moses, seeing their humility, answered them, saying,

“Your conduct is exemplary, without question.”

Yet his brow remained furrowed.

7. And Moses went up upon the Mountain of Featured Answers

and delivered unto them a saying, carved not in stone, but in italics:

‘I suppose mockery is to be expected here as well.’

8. And the people trembled, for no mockery had been spoken,

yet mockery had been named.

9. Then arose DDinSB, a voice crying from the coastal lands, saying,

“At what point doth a man become an expert?”

But this saying was not much heeded,

for it lacked lamentation.

10. And thus the thread wandered for many comments more,

and roses were scarcely mentioned.

11. And Moses signed his name, as was his custom.

Moses.

12. And the people clicked “Like,”

and felt they had done righteousness.

😈

Moses, very well written. :) I think we get it. You don't want threads to devolve into other topics. That's your right on your threads.

Deborah - just shake it off, and come to more tolerant threads. :)

Elena,

Why? Is it your nature?

Moses.

What is with the contentious atmosphere here???

I would like to know why also, Paul.

Moses.

Moses, what a profoundly rhetorical question: what’s wrong with this forum? What exactly were you expecting?

Those who have been here long enough have already explained that everything is fine — the forum is alive and well. Yet the repeated appeals to some idealized past manage to make newer members feel awkward and unwelcome.

Meanwhile, you’ve graciously assumed the role of Drama King, placing the entire forum on a collective guilt trip. The result? A few of the most innocent people felt compelled to apologize — and even accepted apologies from someone who did absolutely nothing wrong.

At that point, the absurdity reached a level that practically demanded its own post.

Moses, can I speak to you as I would to my own father? Please let me (us) know what it is that’s truly bothering you about this forum and how we can kindly accommodate your needs. Frankly, I enjoy the friendly banter and exchange of perspectives pertaining to our beloved gardens as well as random subjects that come up. There is no “ standard “ here as to how many roses, what kind of roses or what level of expertise must be attained to participate. All are welcome and I appreciate that. I’m not an expert, and I have gardening issues I need help with. I have benefited over and over from the input of every gardener on here, even when others disagree with my methods. We all rejoice in the successes of others and commiserate with each other over losses and failures. It’s a gardening community and we are here for each other.

Free speech reigns. Enough said.

Moses.

I’m sorry that you choose not to communicate with us, Moses. But you also have the right to remain silent and I respect that. I hope you choose to continue to communicate on other threads. Adieu on this one.