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Kitchen Reno: Order of Progression

9 months ago

DD is going to totally renovate her kitchen. This will include ripping out walls and expanding into other areas. She knows that she is going to need professional help to accomplish her vision. What she doesn’t know is who to hire.


Her budget is in the very low 6 figures.


The subdivision where she lives is about 25-30 years old. The older people are beginning to sell to younger families so it is again becoming a good place to raise children.


Her neighbor, a retired real estate developer, is advocating for a design/build construction firm that he has worked with. A college friend who is a real estate agent thinks she should start with a draftsman who she has worked with. Our financial planner gave her the name of an interior designer who sent her a bunch of forms to fill out, but never responded after DD sent the forms (TBD if that were caused by a recently discovered glitch with DD’s email inbox).


What are your experiences with renovation/remodeling? Where would you start?


Comments (23)

  • 9 months ago
    last modified: 9 months ago

    I'd start by sketching plans. Once you have a design, you have a "starting place". Then go to a kitchen showroom. See if anything there needs to be added to your layout. Then since the budget is low....decide if YOU/they can do their own demo of kitchen cabinets....for instance. DO NOT remove any walls until you know for sure if they're load bearing....but cabinet removal and haul off can save a ton of money in a budget. How about flooring removal? Then...always use someone who is insured, has workman's comp. and....comes highly recommended.

    Also I used RTA(ready to assemble) cabinets. They're quality, tongue n' groove construction and putting the cabinets together yourself can save money.

    bbstx thanked NiCOZ5
  • 9 months ago
    last modified: 9 months ago

    We've done 2 major renovations. The most recent is the house we're in now in a small over 55 community. We only moved 8 miles from our previous home so we felt confident hiring a local construction company who had been in business in our area for over 30 years. We'd already seen some of his projects and he had high recommendations from people we knew.

    He specialized in custom work and had an interesting approach. His business manager came to our home and more or less interviewed us to see if we'd be a good fit and were willing to spend the money. The owner had grown up in our town and had a great reputation for taking care of every aspect of the job. We met with the interior designer he recommended and decided to hire her too. Between the 2 of them they were able to either hire directly or refer us to all the various trades that we needed.

    Before we placed our bid on the house our realtor asked the seller if we could bring in our builder and his engineer to determine if it was possible to remove certain walls. Once that was confirmed and our bid accepted we started planning. We knocked out walls, gutted the kitchen and three bathrooms and replaced the hardwood floors on the first floor and new carpet on the second. Everything was painted and all utilities replaced. We were fortunate that we could take our time and were able to finish the 5 month long renovation while still living in our previous home. DH insisted that all window treatments had to be installed before moving. When we moved in just about everything was in place except for a few pieces of furniture that were being refinished.

    Finding the right person to spearhead the project made all the difference.

    bbstx thanked maire_cate
  • 9 months ago

    My DD just replaced her kitchen. She took out all of her existing cabinets and pantry and put in new cabinets and counters. Floors stayed the same.

    We went to a local builders supply that has been in our town for years and had a design center years ago when we built. Now they have individual stores for flooring, etc. They had sold enough Kraftmaid in the previous years to obtain special pricing for 2025. That saved her a bunch on her cabinets. They have an inhouse designer that has been there 20 years. She gave out names of contractors to talk to. We also had luck in the past hiring tradesman on referral from another local building center.

    Contractor type guy was hired from names given and worked out well. Doing the demo/tearout would only have saved minimal, like maybe 1k. Project was completed along with a total bathroom gut with minimal hiccups.

    DD and I were interviewed by a design /build firm that is a big advertiser in our town and puts on bath/kitchen remodel seminars at a stone yard. They told us a huge price and long time frame to do DD's basically simple remodel. We do not feel they would have done any better job for twice the $$.

    Not sure what type of area your DD lives in, but definitely have her shop around for her cabinets and construction firms.


    bbstx thanked RNmomof2 zone 5
  • 9 months ago

    DD and DSIL are not DIYers, in either construction or design.


    The metro area that DD lives in is 1.5 million population. She ought to be able to find what she needs. I live in a town of 25,000. When I decided to rip out the kitchen in my old house, I had terrible luck with the interior designer and even worse luck with the kitchen designer. I finally went to the GW kitchen forum with a detailed drawing of the floor plan. Got terrific help from the folks there. Found a cabinetmaker in a little shop in the woods and basically GC’d the project myself. But it was far less complicated than what she wants to do. I did not take down any walls.



  • 9 months ago

    All I can say about a design/build firm is that while it sounds appealing, it's so costly. When we redid our kitchen, their quote was exactly double the price of doing it another way. We ended up hiring a well-recommended kitchen designer who brought in an architect to come up with a plan, then we used a contractor chosen from a few recommended by the kitchen designer to do the work. Even using all these separate people and buying cabinets of a much higher grade than those quoted by the design/build firm, our all-in cost was still about half of our quote from the design/build firm.

    bbstx thanked sas95
  • 9 months ago

    Thanks, @sas95. That is helpful to know. Did the architect prepare bid documents? Did the contractors bid on the job? Were your cabinets custom made? If so, were they site-built or shop-built?

  • 9 months ago

    Maire cate, your contractor sounds like a dream come true!

    bbstx thanked dedtired
  • 9 months ago

    All good advise. My husband is talented and knowledgeable enough to always be the GC.

    We have done total gut to simple remodeling. As Nicole mentioned, the budget sounds too low when factoring in removing walls and expanding.

    Does she have actual examples of other homes in the subdivision that have done similar work? Who did that work?



    bbstx thanked eld6161
  • 9 months ago
    last modified: 9 months ago

    Honestly Ded he was fantastic and I can't think of anyone around who could fill his shoes. We knew going into it that it would be expensive but neither of us wanted to babysit contractors. I did that when we put an addition on our previous home, even to the point of checking footings with a tape measurer. Plus we had the advantage of downsizing which freed up extra money.

    He promised that he would handle everything and he did - even having our air ducts cleaned because of the drywall dust. Unfortunately his wife, who taught AP Physics in the high school passed away the following year so he sold his business and moved full time to his place in Maine. And sad to say the business he built over decades is now floundering.

    bbstx thanked maire_cate
  • 9 months ago

    The Internet ate my response . Keep in mind we’re in a vintage home in a sea of tract housing so our needs are slightly different..

    DH and I have very solid design ideas and love working with design/build firms who get what were trying to accomplish. Before we meet with them, the project has been under discussion for some time and we’ve agreed on our goals.

    We go into the first meeting to share our goal, basic design, vision and general budget. I often source myself and work with them to make sure we’re on the same page.

    If we were just replacing and not changing the footprint, maybe we'd go to a cabinet store, but they really need to start with the rough work to see what budget they will have left for the finishes.

    Also, I believe we should have some awareness of the value of people’s time so that we’re not just using it with no intention of moving forward with that company. Comparing a few contenders before making a final selection is perfectly acceptable, as is looking.


    bbstx thanked 1929Spanish-GW
  • 9 months ago

    When I remodeled my kitchen two years ago, I started with a highly recommended kitchen designer. She was terrible. I ended up designing the kitchen myself with the help of the designer's cabinet maker. The best thing the designer did was introduce me to the GC and his team, including the talented cabinet maker.

    Whatever designer and/or GC you decide to use, meet with them and trust your instincts. If they are not prepared and don't show any attention to detail, find someone else. Also, do some Internet research on them to see if they have lawsuits outstanding and read any available reviews.

    Even with a competent GC, I was on site the whole time and there were tons of small decisions to be made every day. I ended up sourcing the appliances, fixtures, stone and hardware myself which should have been the job of the designer. My fault, I should have dumped her when she showed up to the first meeting without a tape measure.

    bbstx thanked Fun2BHere
  • 9 months ago

    I had an experience similar to Fun's. My previous kitchen was designed by someone who clearly did not cook. It drove me nuts for a few years, but in that time I identified what I wanted and where. I had the whole thing designed by the time I went to the contractor. It was a kitchen remodeling company that carried a great line of cabinets, and who could also do the electrical, plumbing, etc. One wall was moved 3 inches (yes, that had to happen), and they did a beautiful job matching up the wood floors.

    If I recall correctly, your DD and DSIL have small children, and so this will be a very-much-used family kitchen. There are many ways to make a kitchen pretty, but I would encourage them to first consider function. IME, a kitchen must function well before anything else.

    Another note is that a friend has explored a kitchen remodel, and design/build firms are, as noted above, costly.

    If she went with an interior designer, I would use one that specialized in kitchens, not a general ID.

    bbstx thanked Feathers11
  • 9 months ago

    @NiCOZ5 I think you misunderstood. The budget is not low. It's...

    in the very low 6 figures.

    $100,000 budget is not low. At least not in my world.

    bbstx thanked jsk
  • 9 months ago

    @bbstx, our kitchen designer prepared the specs that the contractors bid on, with architect input. Then the architect had to submit documents to the town for building permits. We did not get custom cabinets, nor did we get the highest end ones, though we got very good ones. Probably lower range of high end, if that makes any sense. But the design/build firm quoted us an astronomical number with fairly builder grade cabinets. If we had used the design/build firm and upgraded to the level we ultimately bought, I can't imagine what that would have cost us.

    bbstx thanked sas95
  • 9 months ago

    @jsk.....I do whole house remodels. My husband does commercial remodels. For instance: if you want a duel fuel range, you will need a dedicated lug in your panel. You may need to upgrade your panel. Or...having custom cabinets made. Moving walls...what if they're load bearing and need a new header designed by an engineer? An extensive remodel described by the PO can be a HUGE expense. Saving money is a great thing to keep in mind....not to exceed the project budget.

    bbstx thanked NiCOZ5
  • 9 months ago

    As it turns out, I was way low on the amount DD is expecting to spend. It is about 3x my estimate. But she also wants to redo some bathrooms. But for the Master Bath, the bathrooms will be a relatively small part of the budget. For instance, in the guest room, she wants to remove the tub and install a shower. The sink and the toilet will remain where they are. Same with the kids’ bathrooms. However, the Master Bath is going to be a major undertaking. It is a huge room that is very poorly arranged.

  • 9 months ago
    last modified: 9 months ago

    She needs to just start meeting with people -- architects, contractors, interior designers, design build firms to find the right combination of people in her area. There is not one professional that is across the board better suited to this work than others. It is who in her area can best pull together the project and team.

    Everyone on here is going to have a different experience and prefer a different professional to start with. The more she interviews, the more it will become obvious what she should do.

    I talked to five highly qualified kitchen designers with gorgeous portofolios that work in very high end neighborhoods. They met me at my home to brainstorm and tell me how they work. They had ridiculous ideas about how to use my space, wanted to sell me things that were overkill and not pay attention to the bones and scale of my space. Then I met with a custom cabinet maker. It was a family business that had been around for 60 years. The made cabinets from scratch. The owner had become a kitchen designer. She did all of the design services free of charge - it was just a service that came with purchasing cabinets from them. She was by far the best, most practical designer who could see beyond bells and whistles bling into true function and layout.

    When I moved to another city, I tried to go the route of using an architect and design build firm. The architects had their heads in the clouds for sure. I ended up doing a lot of the design myself and paying a young architect who the GC knew to be the project manager. She was pretty dumb too but at least she shared my work load and it wasn't all on me.


    As a first step, have a structural engineer come and look at walls she wants to remove to see if it can be done. Then ask them what contractors, architects, designers the have worked with and can recommend.

    bbstx thanked Kendrah
  • 9 months ago

    But for the Master Bath, the bathrooms will be a relatively small part of the budget. For instance, in the guest room, she wants to remove the tub and install a shower. The sink and the toilet will remain where they are.


    No bathroom is a small budget ever. Even small ones are expensive. Even ones that leave the vanity and toilet in the same location are expensive. You are talking about gutting everything down to the studs and rebuilding, with every trade involved. It takes a ton of coordination of subcontractor schedules. Waterproofing for a shower takes many steps.


    My husband and I do nothing DIY. No demo. Nothing. It is not where our skills are in this world.



    bbstx thanked Kendrah
  • 9 months ago
    last modified: 9 months ago

    I would consider all avenues for getting the work done, though I agree design/build minimizes your headaches at least in theory --- for a price. In the end, it will probably come down to who is recommended by sources you trust, who is available, who did you feel good about when meeting with them, etc.

    bbstx thanked mtnrdredux_gw
  • 9 months ago

    Your daughter is remodeling a high end home. She has a very high end budget. To do this w/o a designer/GC team would be foolish. I designed our bathroom reno--DH did all the work. Soo not the same thing as your daughter is doing. Have her talk to her friends/work mates they most likely have suggestions on who in the area is up to this task.

    bbstx thanked arcy_gw
  • 9 months ago

    I won't repeat, just add my 2cents. A qualified contractor will know about removing/adding walls (and if an engineer will be required). Contractor, most likely, will be able to recommend good cabinet contacts he has done business with in the past, wants to work with again and keep things on schedule.


    I would not rely on an architect to design the kitchen, even if they ask your DD/SIL questions. I would either use a kitchen designer or the cabinetmaker if they are going custom. Have photos or magazine pages of details they would like to incorporate.


    Even then, the KD might not come back with their desired kitchen. The well respected KD we worked with on our last house (full kitchen remodel) came to our present plans meeting with drawings that looked like she had not listened, written down or remembered anything we (mostly me) had said. The design was so far off, she would not even leave the plans. But her DH was the cabinetmaker and that is the reason I hired her/them in the first place. In the end, it worked out and I got the kitchen I wanted.


    If your DD is doing custom built cabinets, I would highly suggest more drawers than doors (only one for cookie sheets in our last kitchen), I would do this baking pan drawer again in a heartbeat, extremely handy.



    bbstx thanked Allison0704
  • 9 months ago

    @Allison0704, there will be drawers! DD’s house before this one was primarily drawers. My kitchen is primarily drawers. We love drawers!