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Cashless society

8 months ago

On the one hand, some restaurants are starting to surcharge for using a credit card, to encourage people to pay in cash. (I was actually in a restaurant in Manhattan on Christmas even and did see someone pay a check of a couple hundred dollars with cash, so I guess people still do.)


On the other hand I wanted something other than a $20 to leave for housekeeping and when I went to the front desk of the hotel, they did not have a cashbox, one of the guys at the counter checked his own wallet and happened to have the change. (So the expectation seems to be that so few people use cash that there is no need to have a supply of change).

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And another thing. I think there is such a thing as over-gentrification. In the West Village -Meat Packing district, there is a condo unit for sale @ $85 Million. And there is a Gucci right across the street from what used to be a hot-sheets hotel/notorious bar that had a woman in a bikini inside a rolling set of bars pacing back and forth with a sign that said to stop arresting s*x workers. And now an Hermes nearby, too ($200 Hermes bandaid, anyone?)

On the one hand, you can safely walk through the neighborhood at night. (well, you kinda could before). On the other hand, nobody can afford to move into the neighborhood unless they are wealthy or can get into someone's long term rent controlled apartment.

Comments (60)

  • 8 months ago
    last modified: 8 months ago

    I think in NYC they must accept cash by statute.

    FYI, charging a higher fee for CC usage used to be disallowed under the agreements between CC networks and retailers, but that ended in 2013. Some states still disallow it.

    • The 2013 Legal Settlement: The rules changed significantly as a result of a class-action lawsuit brought by retailers against Visa and Mastercard.
    • State Laws and Court Challenges: While surcharging is now generally permitted by card networks and federal law, a few states still have anti-surcharge laws in place (e.g., Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts)


    (Apparently this drives my real estate investment decisions.)

  • 8 months ago

    If I pay with a CC for any kind of government renewal, ie: license plate or drivers license, property tax...there is a CC surcharge. Paying with check or cash saves me paying the surcharge. We keep cash on hand for buying things from people who have adds. Ie: A used washing machine for $100...I'd pay cash for it. Or there's a restaurant that serves a HUGE plate of nachos for $14, I carry a $20 to hand to the server...includes a small tip. I always worry that when I include a tip & pay with a CC that the "correct" server may not get what I left them. I like to give cash tips.

  • 8 months ago
    last modified: 8 months ago

    I always use cash at restaurants and gas stations. I pay the gardener and personal grooming professionals in cash. If a restaurant won't take cash, I don't eat there.

  • 8 months ago

    The vast majority of personal crime these days takes place online and through identity theft. Few people want your wallet these days.


    I live in Manhattan and our local stores still greatly prefer when we pay in cash. We go to the ATM once a week and get out a lot of cash. The problem is they then make change and we have a boat load of coins.


    WHERE DO YOU TAKE YOUR COINS???


    We don't have a local bank and no bank will take our coins if you don't have an account. The only place I know to go is a coinstar machine, rips you off with 13% fee. Yes, you can get a gift card and not pay the fee but I never, ever use any of the places they have gift cards for.

  • 8 months ago

    I've never stumbled into an establishment here that is card only tho some stores don't allow cash at a self checkout. There are quite a few cash only, and many cash discount options. I think it may be somewhat geographic specific with urban areas and urban adjacent areas veering from cash earlier than rural.

  • 8 months ago

    I also actually go into the bank branch every few months and get 100 in 5's and 100 in 10's. I get 100 in ones maybe every 6 months. I never get change when I use cash. But I pay in 20's, 10's, 5's, and (rarely) 1's.

  • 8 months ago

    There are a number of reasons I do not do a lot of cash transactions. First other than restaurants I don't really deal with groups for whom cash definitely works better: no car (my sister tips every time the garage guy get her car), no housekeeper, no landscapers, no hair cutter, nothing like that.

    Then, I also do not have a local bank other than an ATM account in which I do not keep very much money. Locally I will only get cash out at an actual bank ATM. And if I had to get money in a bodega or something in NYC and it had a skimmer on it, I wouldn't lose much.

    I have no apps on my phone, or any other information either, so no Venmo or Cash apps

    When we go to NYC for a couple of days, it's usually one or two breakfasts in a neighborhood diner. (Easily $75-80 for two) Two meals in middle of the road fine dining. (Usually $150-200 for two even without a drink), One visit to an upscale bar (This trip is was $100 for two drinks --one each I mean). Then a few sundries like water or an extra snack from CVS.

    If we go to a really nice restaurant we could get close to $300 for two for dinner.

    Keep in mind that the Baccarat Hotel has cocktails on their regular menu that are $5000, and one that is only available occasionally for $12,000. So $100 for two drinks is ridiculous in the big picture, but almost run of the mill in Manhattan.

    So to do all this in cash I would have to start out with $600 cash for a normal couple days or maybe close to $1000 on an occasion, just to eat and drink in a good neighborhood diner and two decent restaurants. And I don't really want to carry cash like that around.

    ($100,000 in most of America is like $35,000 in Manhattan I read somewhere)

    Finally by having One card, and one card only, I know exactly how much I spend every month, and it is so consistent that if it is higher or lower I can immediately account for where it went visually. I really only write checks for utilities on a regular basis)


    Meatpacking today with Gucci on the right. This is streetview but it is so pristine it looks like photoshop.


    The same two buildings as I first remember them. The flatiron building did improve incrementally over time even before gentrification.


  • 8 months ago

    Earlier this year, I went to England and was surprised how little cash was used. I took some pounds with me, but cashed most of it back in upon my return. A cashier there told me that more people went to contactless payment options during the pandemic. Bills do have a reputation for being dirty. I usually have a small amount of $ on me just in case, but after that, I have pretty much gone cashless myself.

  • 8 months ago

    $40 for a diner breakfast and $50 for a cocktail? Are you just at tourist rip off diners?

  • 8 months ago
    last modified: 8 months ago

    Nope. Regular neighborhood diner.

    The bars with drinks that expensive are clearly an extravagance which is why we do it once and get one drink. (Typical Manhattan drink is 18-25) I've been going to Manhattan my entire adult life, and know what a tourist trap is. I'm not a dope, give me some credit.

    Also the eating and drinking habits while on vacation tend to be different from what people do when they live in a place.

    Regarding diner breakfast: 2 cheese omelets 17.95, two sides of bacon 7.95, two drinks 3..50. = 58..80 . 8% tax 4.70 . Total 63.50 plus 22% tip =$ 14.00 = 77.50

    Much larger than a regular breakfast at home. But then we eat nothing until past 7 at night and walk 20,000 steps in between. And yes I tip on the tax, it's only a dollar difference.

  • 8 months ago

    Once a month a group of us retirees meet at a restaurant...there are usually 15-18 of us. They do give us separate checks and we return the favor by cash/exact change. There may be 1-2 that use a cc.


    I go dancing once a week and leave cash for the class in an envelope...she does venmo and such, but I find it easier to just pay the cash, exact change.


    But I find I use very little cash elsewhere, esp since I have my apple watch...so much easier to press the button and swipe one's wrist than digging through the purse for the cc.

  • 8 months ago

    I use very little cash. I almost always use my debit card. My hair gal has her own little cc scanner thingy. On the other hand, the mister uses mostly cash. We do use one cc for alot of purchases as we get cash back reward.

  • 8 months ago

    My hair person has a discount if you pay in cash, but the convenience of cc is just too great.

  • 8 months ago

    I use almost no cash. I try to keep a few dollars in my wallet just in case. I don’t have an ATM card, so if I need cash, I have to ”steal” it from DH’s wallet



  • 8 months ago

    DH sold a couple things and people paid with cash, so I’ve been trying to use it up like posters below- at smaller, locally owned places, tips, hairdressers etc. People seem happy to get it, especially as tips, so I might try to continue. But, otherwise I never carry cash.

  • 8 months ago

    Since we moved to SC, there are many more businesses that impose a credit card surcharge - mostly small businesses. Having owned a small business in the past, I know how impactful those fees can be so I understand. I now write way more checks than in the past so I can avoid the cc fees. I always have a hundred or so in cash but about the only time I use it is to pay the hairstylist and to tip the bag handlers at the golf club. I use a debit card for local purchases and cc for everything online. I keep track of all our spending in Quicken which is harder to do if I have a lot of cash transactions.

  • 8 months ago
    last modified: 8 months ago

    I think having cash, specifically a wad of large bills in their pocket, is a very "Dad" thing.

    For tipping, for on-the-sly handouts to random offspring, relatives and such, and "emergencies." I eschew cash, but DH keeps replenishing the stash in my wallet (we call it "reverse thief") when I am not looking.

    It is part of the whole hunter/gatherer/protector mindset.

  • 8 months ago

    The Flintstones are shown using paper money, but they also used rocks and clamshells as cash.

    Perhaps that accounts for the origin of very large handbags.

  • 8 months ago

    Also my comment about spending on meals and drinks was not to put my spending habits under a microscope, but to explain one of the reasons I don't carry a lot of cash especially when traveling.

    When I go to NYC I stay in the least expensive decent hotel I can find where I want to be, and get there very cheaply, and never take cabs, so our food expenses are usually more than everything else combined on the rest of the trip.

  • 8 months ago
    last modified: 8 months ago

    I think having cash, specifically a wad of large bills in their pocket, is a very "Dad" thing.

    This was both my parents' thing. "Do you need any money? Go grab my purse./Go get the envelope in my desk."

    That and "Say, did you take _____ up and show them where we are going to be buried?"

    When my mother was in the hospital with an infection, the infection made her mildly hallucinate and she was also on pain management.

    She recognized everyone who came to see her, some of them she said "Oh, you're kidding...I must be sicker than I realized". But frequently when they were leaving she would say "Do you need any money? Get me my purse."

  • 8 months ago

    When I travel out of town I make sure to have a few hundred in cash. Why? Well, I don't really know. I like to have back up plans in case credit cards stop working, and for tips at hotels and whatnot. However I have never had a credit card stop working, and I pulled $300 in cash for a trip to Vegas about a year ago and I think I still have $200 of it in my wallet.


    I mostly prefer cashless, but always have some bills on me. Which I apparently never use....

  • 8 months ago
    last modified: 8 months ago

    Last night I gave my daughter $5 for a tip for the valet parking when we went out to dinner. She had no cash.

  • 8 months ago

    We went out of town for a long weekend and neither of us thought to get any cash. We had absolutely zero cash on us. Then we went to breakfast at a local place there that got great reviews and it was CASH ONLY! Thankfully the place was prepared and had a no-fee ATM right inside the door.

  • 8 months ago

    I've become accustomed to paying with my phone so often that I forget to even bring a wallet with me when I leave the house.

  • 8 months ago

    I usually don't bring a wallet to run errands, unless I am solo.

  • 8 months ago

    Thank goodness DH carries cash,. I just pulled a $20. Going out walking with a friend. May get coffee to defrost. I think I finally lost it. It’s 28 degrees!

  • 8 months ago

    But what about your ID? I have a two piece wallet but I always carry my ID, insurance card and some payment method.

  • 8 months ago

    I do too Palimpsest

  • 8 months ago
    last modified: 8 months ago

    Recently, I added my passport to my iphone. I also have my health insurance card on there, and images of my DL (though that is not yet allowed in my state, but coming).

    But again, if I am running errands solo (usually I am with DH ), I would bring a wallet.

    DH carries his ID in a case attached to his phone, and then cash in a money clip.

    My preferred style of case doesn't come that way.


    Apple Wallet:


  • 8 months ago

    I have a phone case that carries two cards. If im going to the grocery store, i just take that. The self checkout lines dont take cash.

    The bad thing about my phone case is that it makes it difficult to do the double click to use Apple Pay.

  • 8 months ago

    I had the best martini of my life at Bemelmen's Bar at the Carlyle Hotel in NYC. Their martinis run around $35 -$40 but they do come with a dividend (some might call it a sidecar) and a small bowl of nuts or chips. But the experience is worth the expense. Certainly not an everyday thing for me!


    It is so much more convenient to use a card instead of cash so I tend to do that. In Europe, where tipping is not expected, every restaurant is tap and go, and in our last few trips we had very little local currency with us. In the US I mostly tip in cash.

  • 8 months ago

    I find that cash is used even less outside of the US. I rarely bring cash when I travel, and rarely exchange currency either.

  • 8 months ago

    We do like Bemelman's in the off hours. We like the different mural bars in the city (Ludwig Bemelman); King Cole (Maxfield Parrish) ; Waverly Inn (Edward Sorrel). Have not been to Monkey Bar or the Leopard (formerly Cafe de les Artists to see their murals yet.

  • 8 months ago

    Crazy how all of these places are still extant (with Cafe des Artistes being renamed).

    Heading to Manhattan in a few hours. Mostly glad we no longer drink. Sure makes NYE dinner a bad value though!

  • 8 months ago

    Enjoy the Opera Mtn!

  • 8 months ago

    Cocktails have become so ridiculously expensive in restaurants. About once a month, my DS and I hit a restaurant on his bucket list in Chicago. Cocktails generally run $20-$25, so we usually order an unusual or creative cocktail to start. The cocktail itself is a course for me.

    I pay with cc for restaurants, everywhere. Years ago, my very pragmatic older brother advised me to, so I'd have a record if I should get food poisoning. (It's never happened, but when it does, I'm prepared!)

    I always carry some cash, though. These days, I mainly use it for the occasional FB marketplace find, or for the rare cash-only purchase. I also still write checks for some of my bills, because I enjoy the process.

  • 8 months ago
    last modified: 8 months ago

    I can't even remember the last time I wrote a check.


    I just realized that I'm not sure where my checkbook is . . . now I have to go look for it!

  • 8 months ago

    Dani, I know, check-writing is from a bygone era. But when I first lived on my own and managed my own budget, the monthly process of getting out the checkbook to pay the rent and utilities made me feel responsible. I would line-item every check, and balance it monthly with the statement. I liked the ritual. Then, when I had kids and got a life insurance policy, it was before online pay became widely available, and I could *only* pay my policy premiums by check. I've just never stopped using them. Two of my current income streams are also by check.

  • 8 months ago

    I pay the landscapers (spring, summer, fall) in cash, at times tip cash in restaurants, and always keep some in my wallet for? But people who perform other home services like electricians, plumbers, fence installers, tree contractors, concrete guy, etc get paid in cash or more likely, a check. I like the handy record and no one so far has complained about a check payment. Mine has multiple checks per page with carbon-like copies of each. Remember carbon paper?

  • 8 months ago

    I still write checks every month. I do not have anything on autopay except my mortgage. Physically writing checks or doing in monthly through the phone makes me aware of what's going out.

  • 8 months ago
    last modified: 8 months ago

    I always have cash in my wallet - a habit that began when I was a teen and my Dad would ask if I had enough money for gas. And because I'm old enough to remember the pre-credit card era when you either paid with cash for carried checks.

    I carry a selection of denominations for those times when my friends and I stop for coffee or go out for lunch and we split the bill and invariably someone will only have $20s. Even when we charge our bill at a restaurant DH likes to tip with cash and every now and then will ask if I have a 10 since he usually gets 20s from the bank. Other than that I charge everything unless there's an extra fee associated with the transaction.

    My checkbook register gets used more than physically writing checks since that's where I record any auto pay from my checking account and I still get a measure of satisfaction from balancing my checkbook.

    One morning a week my aqua class has a separate gym session and that instructor is paid $10 in cash. I admit to becoming slightly annoyed when the same people every week pull out a 20 and ask me for change.

  • 8 months ago

    I have an autopay for my credit card minimum in case the day slips by but I'm kind of like Pal. I log into my accounts each month to monitor what's going on and pay via credit card. Then we pay off the credit card each month.

    I try to carry small bills for deliveries or grocery pick up but DH often "borrows" them. Yesterday I returned something to Target and the associate was able to change a $20 for me. I was relived that I didn't have to stop at the bank.

  • 8 months ago

    DH jokes I am his cashless wife but I do try to keep some cash on me for online pickup and I generally tip at Drybar in cash. Also Powerball tickets must be cash.

    I will go to the bank and get 20’s, 10’s, and 5’s so I have a variety of bills on hand.

    Paid our occasional landscaper in cash, but unfortunately he passed away a couple months back( don’t know what happened), so we will need to find someone new in spring.

    Always leave cash gratuity at hotels for housekeeping.

    Interesting we watched a travel video about Japan and they were saying cash seemed to be preferred. You would think like many other countries they would be more cashless given their high technology.

    I use PayPal but I don’t use Venmo or Zelle.

  • 8 months ago

    @maire_cate, yes! to keeping track of autopays and debit card transactions in my check register. If it's coming out of my checking account, it needs to be recorded there. I try not to write more checks than I need to (fie on you BofA for charging for checks). Anyway, I insist on paper statements and actually enjoy balancing my checkbook. Drop the cents, round up to the nearest dollar and get a little cushion.

  • 8 months ago

    I still balance my checking account manually once a month too. Paper checks are as rare as hen's teeth for me, but there are still things going in and out and I balance it to the penny. Which usually takes about 30 seconds, but I figure it is good to make sure I still know what I am doing. It is my own mini mental status exam. 😄

  • 8 months ago

    I like to use cash for groceries, just to keep my purchases in line. It helps to minimize impulses that might sound good in the moment but would later languish in the pantry. I have a general idea of what my total should be from my list and include a cushion for extras or fun, but not too much of a cushion. I also try to use cash at small businesses, whether there is an additional card charge or not. I would rather the small business have the extra money than Visa.


    I work at a local plant nursery that is only open for 3 months and takes only cash or checks. I spend quite a bit of time coaching people on how to write a check. For some people, the only checks they write are to that nursery and you can go back several years in their carbons to see that. Unfortunately, last year the bank started charging to process the checks, but it is still less than the credit card fees. I know of a few places that are card only to deter theft.

  • 8 months ago
    last modified: 8 months ago

    I’ve just been looking to book a hotel in September. The Hyatt had this note:

    CASH FREE - Please note that this hotel only accepts credit cards, debit cards and, where applicable, other contactless forms of payment. It is a cash-free environment.

    We stayed in a Hyatt in SLC. They had a sign in the lobby with similar wording.

  • 8 months ago

    But leave a cash tip for the housekeeper.

  • 8 months ago

    Many resorts are the same. No cash.

    I usually carry about $100-$200 in cash in my wallet. And I keep an envelope of cash at home. When home, the only cash I spend is tipping my hairstylist every 4 weeks, paying the guy that plows our driveway and shovels the walk, and tipping delivery people.

    When going on vacation, I take some cash for tipping -- every day I leave something for housekeeping in a hotel, tips for concierge/doormen that help me, and at beach resorts lots of one dollar bills for tipping the beach servers. On cruises, I need cash to tip cabin stewards, cabana butlers and dining room waiters at the end of the cruise. Bar tenders/ bar servers tips can be added to on board account.

    I use credit cards for almost everything else. Never ever use a debit card. Yes, some places now charge a % for using credit card but I pay it for the convenience.

    My daughter almost never has any cash and it bugs me. Should always have some cash!

  • 8 months ago

    I recently went to dinner with some relatives at their golf clubhouse. I was treating and gave the server my card. She needed their membership info (I didn't know they got a discount) which they gave her. She came back to say that their computers were down so they couldn't run the card, but if ok with me they would take the info and enter it later. I wouldn't have been comfortable with that at a public restaurant (or more public, this is open to the public in a golfing community, but not really patronized by others), tho I'm not sure what else could have been done. I didn't have several hundred dollars cash and there wasn't a bank for 20 miles. I've kept a close eye on the card charges and all seems to be fine.

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