But how did you get here? Is this a plan site specific for you or something being tweaked? You should be trying to get it down to 3500 max across two floors, and excluding basement. It really is needing to be completely redone.

@WestCoast Hopeful, fully from scratch to fit the lot allowing for the first floor garage and walkout basement and backyard level with 1st floor.

Why shoot for 3500? I dont think we can achieve the double masters in that amount of space.

You are building a massively oversized home with a ton of wasted space on each floor that will cost a small fortune to build. I thought you wanted to shrink it? Doing so by a handful of square feet is useless. A large and comfortable home can be half the size of yours if well done. Do you really need four garages? Look at the size of your pantry vs kitchen. Master closets and bath vs sleeping area. Do you need ensuite bathrooms and why the jack and Jill?

What are tour needs for the house? What parameters, wishes, dreams, facts, did you give the architects? Your lot constraints are certainly constraints. Two master suites, multiple flex rooms including private room (for prayer?), ensuite vs jack-and-jill vs shared hall bath, shoe closet by front door but not garage door, etc, and closets bigger than my large master bedroom, lead us to think there is something interesting at play that some of us might not be familiar with.

@WestCoast Hopeful any specific help making the home more efficiently designed is appreciated. Looking to tweak this, not scrap it entirely. Is there some benefit of ensuite vs jack and jill I'm missing? Are you saying the kitchen is too small? What do you think about dividing the dining room and the play area with a fireplace?

@bpath there is a mudroom at the garage.

thanks.

Make walk in closets and ensuite master baths significantly smaller. Your primary suite on the main floor is bigger than your kitchen, eating area, dining room etc. It is a complete waste of space considering how little time you spend there. The width of the dining and play area is quite narrow too considering the overall size of this massive house. Honestly the master suites are so big they make everything else seem tiny. Jack and Jill bathrooms are awful. Makes way more sense to have a hallway bathroom. You only have two kids, what is the third bedroom for? If for guests, in this giant house do you really want them up on the bedroom level with you? Why two master suites?

I imagine visitors, possibly grandparents, coming for extended visits, hence two masters.

I’m not sure I understand the playroom and dining room dimensions. They occupy the same space, shouldn’t one of their measurements be the same? I would think about the necessity of those two spaces. The breakfast room is larger than the dining space, and you and your guests walk through the kids’ space to get to the dining room and powder room. I might have the breakfast room be the playroom/homework room, and shrink the dining room.

However, four bays of attached garage have a big impact on the size and interior of the house.

I’m not sure that tweaks are going to suffice, especially without knowing the thought that went into the original choices. The deeply personal reasons do not have to be provided to a forum like this, but we need something to go on. There is more at play than shrinking sizes. Some things can’t be simply shrunk, because other things like garage sizes are less flexible.

The "Flex Room" in the basement that shows a bed in it and has no egress window may be better labeled "Death Trap". I have never been in a burning house, but I have been in a burning car; and you want more than one way out.

Honestly we just need more information to understand how you got to this point? Why things are sized as they are etc. I agree there must be more at play that hasn’t been shared

There always more at play than has been shared. All comments are made with a degree of ignorance, me included. OPs should always proceed with caution and know they may be receiving bad advice and object always look smaller than are in the rear view passenger side mirror.

What do the elevations of this house look like? That seems to drive a lot of the sizing of the main level. That master bath/closet/bathroom is a ridiculous size - IMO. I also feel like the study is huge! Then on the other side, why is the laundry combined with the mudroom? I would want those separate. The laundry is so far from all the bedrooms. The pantry is so big as well - too big unless you do a lot of baking and canning and stuff that requires a second kitchen space to contain aromas and mess. The kitchen actually seems a bit small for this size of house. It doesn't seem substantial enough.

I don't know - I'm just not a fan of this whole thing - there is a flow issue for me, things seem a bit forced just because of the way the exterior is laid out. Try looking at it from when you get up in the morning and are going through a typical day - how does the space feel?

I think I'm just not a huge house kind of person.

Well my sister and I shared a J7J bathroom no way would I ever suggest one to anyone. My Dad finally had to do another bathroom before one of us comitted murder . As for all the rest I can't read the plansw ell enough to actually have any idea what you want help with. I can only see a mess of spaces with no real planning from what I see. $ people do not IMO ever need 5800 sq ft plus a basement bigger is not always better but this is amess .

I have nothing against large houses. Our second house, when we had young kids was close to 8,000 sq.ft (that number included a nice walk-out basement with lots of light). Our retirement house is a bit smaller, but still large for two people.

The issue with your plan isn't the overall size, but the size of the individual spaces and how they are laid out and connect to other spaces. It doesn't "feel" comfortable. The shape and size of many of the space just seems odd, like they were done that way just to fill the space that was left over after you placed some of the other "tetris blocks".

Do you have a real licensed architect? Or a drafter?

What is your lot size?

"no one ever needs ..."

Here we go.

Glad we live in a country where we can choose what to spend our hard earned money on. Some people spend on travel, some have multiple houses, some collect cars, some spend on handbags and fancy labels and some like a spacious house.

Which of those do people need? Which are we allowed to need?

In my family we choose to spend our money on the spacious house and don't have a need for the rest of the other things!

Better not to tell people, that you don't even know, what they need or don't need!

I discovered by going to the OP's page, clear plans can be found in the "floor plans" idea book.

I find a note like "Confirm if Column is Required", numerous void areas, multiple "flex" spaces, difficult access clothes closets, poorly sized spaces, a Murphy door for a heavily used doorway, inconsistent footprint between plans, angled walls, and many other details make me question the younger but experienced architectural firm's legitimacy. Check to see if they are licensed in your state.

I would not ever tell smone how to spend their money. I do have an opinion if the OP has an issue with that opinion thye have a way to say so they do not need your help to speak up. They asked for help .We need a proper plan we can read if help is what they want. BTW they di dask for how to make changes to the size . I stan by my comment that no 4 person family NEEDS a 5800 sq ft house ever but what they want is a whole other ball game . As always if you do not want the answer do not ask the question and that is a fact .

I tell people how to spend their money all the time. Sometimes they ignore me and that is alright by me as long as it is all right by them. In fact I am sure there are some ignoring this comment.

Even if they are a state registered architect, there's always the ones that finished last in their class. But, I would bet that this is the work of a "home designer", not an architect.

The issue is that the plans are seriously amateur. There's lots of weird unallocated mystery meat space that has no purpose and just costs money. They just are not a good response to a massively sloping site. Unless your budget is 5M or so? Because neither the budget nor the structural considerations for a site like you are talking about appear to have been considered in the urban sprawl scribbling that was created.

Start from the beginning. How many people will occupy the home full time? Part time? What are their ages and physical limitations? How social are you as a family? What kind of hobbies are enjoyed that require that half the house be awkward storage type things, but without any real closets?

From the design, I'm imagining a very wealthy childless couple in their 30's who use a bicycle inside the home for physical fitness, and only wear a couple of pairs of sweat pants. Probably IT work from home people who don't need to get outside and get fresh air. But who has the occasional parent or sibling visit that they don't like very much.

I can't read the the floor plans that are posted, and I don't like clicking on links, so I have no specific advice to give. However, there are a lot of comments here that the OP, if still around, would be wise to heed. Even if the goal is to reduce the square footage by only 500 SF or so, your architect needs to "go back to the drawing board" and simplify the layout. If they can't do that to your satisfaction, then you should strongly consider finding someone else to design your home for you.

Yes to those last comments for sure..

Thanks everyone. Yes, still here. The link to clear plans is a Houzz link to the ideabook that allows higher res images as someone pointed out.

We appreciate the suggestions. Other than generalities, any specifics on how to make it better "proportioned" would be helpful.

The layout was influenced by the lot and the sun. As the front door faces north and we wanted the breakfast room to be exposed to the eastern sun in the mornings.

There are fireplaces in the outdoor veranda, one below and one above. We like the idea of dividing the dining room and the kids/play/kitchen family room. Would a dividing wall w/double sided fireplace go well there? Or just a dividing wall (w/o fireplace)?

We are considering a fireplace on the western wall of the breakfast area. Or in the living room.

Open to thoughts on where fireplaces would make the most sense.

We'd also like to place an attached garbage storage, but can't really identify where that would fit well.

Yes, the architect is a verified licensed, diploma-holding architect. Not a drafter.

Thank you!

@RappArchitecture, totally get your hesitation. You can go to my profile on houzz and find my ideabook, as someone already mentioned, and find the plans there in high res. Thanks!

@chispa the lot size is about .65 acres. But the lot has grade on the frontage (north) and is flat on the eastern size. Since it's a corner lot, the lot topo played a lot into the layout to allow for a 1st floor garage and backyard level with 1st floor. With walkout basement on the low side facing the eastern street.

We agree that the proportions need work. Appreciate any and all concrete tips on how to even this out and make it "flow" better. Thanks!

Can you answer the questions about why two large masters? Why such oversized certain spaces and then after thoughts on others?

@WestCoast Hopeful Sure. Two masters in the event of an elderly relative or grandparents who may reside in the home. The local market also tends to prefer master on main, but owners like master up.

No rhythm to the oversize vs afterthought, it's a working plan with room for improvement - so looking for clever folks to help us sort it out! Thanks!

Scrap and start again. If there is no reasoning behind this get rid of it.

good advice so far - the oversized bedrooms seem really outdated to me. I’d rather break all that space it into comfortably sized spaces for specific purposes: A sleeping area, a cozy reading/media room etc -

the only way to fix the plans is to get really specific about how you are going to live in and use all of space (which takes a lot of thought and expertise) otherwise all the rooms will end up giving off lonely awkward vibes (bigger is def not always better)

"The local market also tends to prefer master on main, but owners like master up."

Are you the "owners" or is this for someone else?

@Mark Bischak, Architect one of the owners.

@la_la Girl totally agree. hit the nail on the head. looking to add seating area at the base of both masters near the windows. Could add a fireplace there instead of at the veranda and balcony outside of the masters. Tough choice.

The first floor suite is not for an older relative who needs to move in. The bathroom is too far, and if they need to move in for health reasons it is too far from any caregiver. The doors to closet and bath are at the wrong end, they should be along the left end or in the middle so that no one is walking all the way around the bed. The shower is huge, and cold. And the toilet room is small, especially if someone has any health or mobility issues and needs assistive devices, or materials at hand. And there is no transition from bedroom to living space, and the door looks right down the hall into the kitchen. Convenient, I suppose, if someone needs to holler to the other end of the house.

We bought a house with first floor guest bedroom with ensuite, anticipating that one of our parents might be there long term. Other than a few short visits, they didn’t. And when they needed to live with someone, that suite would not have accommodated. All four of our parents had widely different needs. You just don’t know until the time gets closer. On the other hand, if it were one of our siblings who needed a place to stay, or live, temporarily, well, same hand actually.

And as a primary master suite? Again, no transition to the public spaces.

@bpath EXCELLENT advice! We will work on those changes! Thanks for actual, specific, and usable advice!

We considered swapping the master bath downstairs with the closet location so that the bath isnt in the front of the home near the windows at ground floor. I suppose that would alleviate that concern?

Fire your designer and hire bpath ; you'll be further ahead.

Being relentlessly optimistic, Mark, I’ve decided to take that as a compliment.

Ambarellis, with Mark’s ”endorsement”. I’ll continue. The study is as big as my living room. I have a 12x17 foot Asian rug I can lend you for it. Better might be to shrink it, if in fact it will be used as a study. Even as a den for tv and reading. it’s expansive and dark. consider pulling the front of the house back, to shrink the study. living room, and suite. Although the garages will protrude all the more. So you could just pull back on the side spaces leaving the living room as is, but then the front door protrudes like a bump out. This is why tweaks might not solve the issues.

Another thought is personal on my part: there is one route through the house. Me, I like circulation, more than one way to get around, helpful when floors are being mopped and more.

The kids’ bedrooms are as big as living rooms. Do they need that much space, with a play and homework area, and a basement rec room and movie room?

Remember that all these big spaces need to be cooled.

by the way, be careful backing out of the perpendicular garage, that you don’t hit the front patio. How will the driveway be laid out?

I do think you need 5o go back, look hard at how you live now, how much space you really need now and in the future. We went from our 11x14 bedroom that was enough, but tight, to a larger bedroom where it’s nice to not be bumping into each other, literally, but really, most fo our time in there is spent sleeping. A happy medium would be better.It’s a lot to vacuum!

And it was meant to be a compliment.

What general color is the Asian rug?

Deep red. The only room in my house it fits is my living room. but it’s a little too dark for there.

An earlier statement alluded to the architect living here? I suspect that your architect (significant other?) might be in a strictly commercial design arena, rather than residential - and it's hard to switch gears. I don't think the faults here are a unique programming issue or a site condition. Someone needs to be able to enter a heartfelt discussion about backing up a little bit, it is that poorly designed, even if it was a first draft. Architects are best at delving into information, problem solving, and putting it all together to try and make sense for the human living condition. Success does not have to be the most creative in a new unthought of way - precedent can be built upon. I say this as your architect needs to deep dive into the concept of what makes a great house, what makes it livable, what makes it buildable, and how those concepts translate into a design.

I was hoping to read a raw Minardi/Monique comment, they have not yet. I would bet there would have been the word "pretentious" in there. So I'll take ownership and translate that in a softer way - the design is attempting to be a "classical high value" design, you can see it in:

• the formal front facade symmetry;
• the enclosed entry Porch;
• the oval-ish Foyer;
• what appears to be a tall proportion of windows with some grouped;
• bay windows;
• the loggias (inside and outside);
• faux wall thicknesses;
• the overall square footage, etc.

But the essence of "classical high value" design is not present. A domed loggia is just decoration. I suggest searching for some "classical" house design plans and study them. You'll find:

• formal vs informal areas;
• multiple vistas and routes (think axes of circulation and views);
• arrival rooms and ante rooms along those axes;
• proportions of rooms in a defined functional heirarchy (some of which changed with modern American living);
• proportions/balance of facades and massing;
• stone/brick being the building blocks of a massing, not a veneer on a facade;
• grand staircase/grouping of main circulation; etc.

Yet here, it seems "pretentious" as features are picked and pulled but do not make sense together. Just some comments as it is hard to organize points:

• 6200sf has nothing you'd expect at that value - Living & Family, Scullery/Butlers, specific utilities like large/multiple laundry, all bedroom suites, southern climate pool is a focal point of programming, etc;
• Foyer is not large enough to open the door and greet a guest at the same time, and with an open closet;
• Guests can only traverse through the Living Room;
• Living Room is fairly small considering the circulation needed around it;
• Living Room is a flat ceiling, the dynamic cathedral is for Kitchen and Breakfast which is turned oddly against a flat ceiling;
• cathedral roof is sloping towards a 2nd story;
• the 1st Master opens directly to the Living;
• 1st Master being prominent enough to take 1/4 of the first floor area is very un-dynamic with no regard to furniture placement;
• Study glass wall open to the only Living Room, and how does that glass wall relate to furniture layout in Study;
• Prayer room is just a forgotten closet off to the side;
• reach-in closets hard to access;
• Patio is small and a looooong way from Kitchen;
• no outdoor eating;
• stair is trying to be a focal point but is just tucked in a corner next to a play area which is noisy;
• the interior loggia is domed but has no purpose except to walk along a blank wall to get to the Garage - your view is of a pedestrian Master door or a refrigerator;
• seems to can't decide between having formality of "rooms" vs "open concept";
• Breakfast is overly large;
• garages are difficult for cars to manuever into/out of;
• unresolved 1/2 story over garage;
• 2nd Master bedroom is oversized with no regard to furniture placement;
• massing is just a two-story box, on the walk-out basement 3 stories straight up;
• basement natural light is dedicated to a gym rather than Living/rec area;
• I have to stop.

You may be, as most people do, looking for "what can I swap, or stretch, or where to put my dog bowl?" That is not the case here, it needs to be rethought entirely from site planning and massing. Rather than an inspiration picture of a front of house, start with bubble diagrams and adjacencies.

"An earlier statement alluded to the architect living here?"

the importance of proper punctuation.

Lets eat grandma.

vs

Lets eat, grandma.

@Mark Bischak, Architect one of the owners.

vs

@Mark Bischak, Architect: one of the owners.

The whole thing looks like the solution to every programming problem was to add on a space, where there was room for it on the lot, not where it made any sense to be usable to the home flow or the occupants. That Horace Greely manifest destiny build philosophy is the exact opposite of multi purpose, more condensed space of "The Not So Big House" Sara Susanka. You added North Dakota rather than add a 2 story duplex in LA.

"Looking for tips on how best to tweak this and eliminate wasted space." I believe you need to think beyond "tweaking" this, as I don't think just tweaks will get you to a better design and flow.

I'm hoping Mark or another pro can discuss the process they use (or perhaps someone who has built a custom home can discuss how their design process went.) I've read here about architects doing charettes with their clients at the beginning stages, and found an old post by searching on "charette" that led me to this post about one architect's design process. Maybe you already did this, maybe not. But it seems like an approach that helps get your wants and needs into a design.

I'm sure it's disheartening to hear so much negative feedback. But please know that it's because people want you to get a house that you'll love, and not spend a huge amount of money on something that you'll settle for.

How mad would you be if your parents built a massive 6,000 sq ft house but you still had to share a bathroom?

Have you consulted with a local GC/firm on the estimated costs to build this home? That can be a smart move to manage expectations as you move forward.

I just finished building a 6,000 sq ft home with way more features and I know feedbacks might feel harsh from experience it can be helpful.

Main issue is most spaces are unnecessarily big & seem wasted because it’s not properly utilized.
There is no flow. Everything looks thrown together.

-Kitchen is too far from living room

-Have a small guest suite downstairs instead of second primary. You can even add a separate sitting area like a proper in-law suite and still have a nice bath layout with a W/D. Definitely swap bath & closet, bath window should not face front. You need to redesign.

-Downstairs bedroom needs a hall access before the bedroom. A bedroom should be a private area not directly opened to a living space in a house of this size

-Dining & breakfast are too close together, I’d eliminate one

-Study is too big. Except you have a particular need for that size of space e.g a library

-Secondary bedrooms should not be more than 14x14. Which is a very generous and can still be cozy without feeling like a giant hall

-All rooms should be ensuite with its own bath

-The primary Bedroom is just ridiculous sorry! Even the living room is not 35ft wide. Cut it down

-Primary bath should have 2 separate vanities and another make up vanity

-Have a flex room on second floor; playroom, home office etc

-You might have to change garage layout

You can achieve better details without all those wasted spaces. There are better features that can give better value than just big rooms.

Best of luck!

Dining and breakfast are not too close together, it’s just that they are in the same space woth not visual separation. It ends up looking like a restaurant.

following

I am reserving my comments on the layout for the new layout with the new architect that includes exterior elevations and site plan.

I have my doubts that a licensed architect designed this. Definitely time to start over. Nothing makes sense in this design.

We're all waiting for a new architect, but the OP hasn't responded in three days, so I'm thinking maybe we shouldn't hold our breath. Hopefully, they're spending time searching...

Thanks everyone! Will implement changes and post an update. I think the part missing in translation is just how much the lot constrains how this can be laid out with the requirements previously listed. That said, improvements will be made as much as possible. thanks!

There was no need to delete what had been shared. Changes could easily have been posted in the thread. It really sounds like you don’t want to make them though so will settle for this plan.