Is it the size of the rooms or the layout that makes your current home cramped for entertaining? Compare both to this plan.

Would the folding table be an extension of the dining table? Or would you place it elsewhere? Per Mark’s suggestion, measure your folding table and add it to the scaled layout.

Thank you! The builder said it would be enough space but we would need to commit to the plan before meeting with the designer where they would go through furniture layout I believe. I can ask though next time I talk to him.

I would love to design it to have more space but unfortunately the lot size makes it so we can increase the size much. The bigger lots are significantly more so it’s either build with this plan (or something similar) or try to buy an already built plan and just wait out and hope it has all of our must haves. Thanks so much for your thoughts!

I'd consider 1. sink and fridge at each end of stove wall..and 2. make that wall longer...3. .move stove to the side wall. [this gets the sink off the island and you wont see that when coming in from front entrance....and nicer island seating 4. consider turning island the other way / it can be longer ...... better seating destination, since guest seating is on your mind... Question....1. Why is your shown stove wall so small anyway? 2. can you provide dimensions ? 3. is that a 48 in wide staircase? is it needed at that width? RE : open plan/ is fine ......round pedestal table w optional leaf / or drop leaf will help for "occasions" and extra seating needs. Back to the kitchen tho- needs work.

So this is a planned community where the builder owns the lots and builds homes that they have plans for? Is that correct? Or do you own the lot yourself?

I’m not seeing a way to reply to each person so this message got a bit long sorry. (Unless I’m missing seeing a reply button?)

The size of the rooms makes it crammed once the furniture is all in. The layout of our current house is quite similar just the island is facing a different direction really. The new build isn’t much bigger but the builder thought it would be a big difference we just aren’t 100-% on it. I will put in comparison figures.

Our house-
Kitchen- 13.1 x 11.5
Dining-
Living

New build-
Kitchen-
Dining-
Living-

Yes, it is a builder who owns the lot and said this house plan would fit our budget. It’s at the top end of our budget so we unfortunately can’t make it bigger at this time.

I thought the kitchen needed more cabinets along the fridge wall as well. They have posted photos of this layout on their website and it looks like they reversed the layout as well. (I will attach photos). I would like to add cabinets down the wall further into the dining area but worried that would maybe take away from the dining area too? So that’s something to consider.

I don’t know the dimensions of the stairs unfortunately. The builder is currently getting blueprints made with all of the dimensions we just don’t have them yet.

Can you put everything on hold and reavaluate the design?

Depending on where you live, your budget, what is available around you, it might be better to invest in an established neighbourhood and not a new build that is only okay. Think about all the construction around your new home too if this is a new development

Yup we can currently make any changes we want. I just don’t know how to make the area bigger without being able to make the house bigger you know?

Our main thought is we don’t want to pay a ton more money if we still have the space problems we currently have.

Our house is
Kitchen- 13’1” x 11’5”
Dining- 13’1” x 6’5”
Living- 11’8” x 17’5”

New build-
Kitchen- 12’6” x 12’2”
Dining- 10’6” x 13’4”
Living- 14’2” x 15’11”

"Yup we can currently make any changes we want."

Looking at the floor plan, it is most likely the case that you can make any changes you want to pay for.

Not worth it. The numbers show that.

Two doors into a small storage room like a pantry is inefficient and usually a bad idea.

Those stairs going from one width to a different width as it turns with winder treads is an accident waiting to happen.

A lot of wasted space

I would stay where you are. You do get more space on paper. It wouldn't be enough for what you want. A builder is likely not trained in interior design, kitchen design or be a licensed architect. A double sink on an island back to back with the freestanding when it should be a slide-in range is a good indicator of poor function. His opinion is self-serving. The design and spec appear builder grade. You could do much better if you continue to learn stuff.

Can you extend the living space by making the covered deck a sunroom which will make great overflow space when needed and put a deck to the right. Also square footage wise the new build is larger.

Our house is
Kitchen- 13’1” x 11’5”= 149.37 sq ft
Dining- 13’1” x 6’5” = 83.95 sq ft
Living- 11’8” x 17’5” = 191.63 sq ft

New build-
Kitchen- 12’6” x 12’2”=152.08 sq ft
Dining- 10’6” x 13’4”= 140 sq ft
Living- 14’2” x 15’11”=225.49 sq ft

Offhand, I'd say the living and dining spaces are too small together to accommodate that number of guests.

For me that would NOT be a significant increase in house size to spend the money on a move and premium cost of a new build. You are not going to get the one thing you want, so why go ahead with this.

The builder will say whatever you want to hear!

When we upgraded from our first to second house, when the kids were little, we got around 2000 sq.ft more in the new house, which definitely gave us rooms that were much bigger. We didn't even use the walk-out basement because we had plenty of room on the main floors. Loved that second house, but had to move when DH got a new job that required relocating.

" Our house is
Kitchen- 13’1” x 11’5”= 149.37 sq ft
Dining- 13’1” x 6’5” = 83.95 sq ft
Living- 11’8” x 17’5” = 191.63 sq ft

New build-
Kitchen- 12’6” x 12’2”=152.08 sq ft
Dining- 10’6” x 13’4”= 140 sq ft
Living- 14’2” x 15’11”=225.49 sq ft:"

Minimal at best increases and not necessarily for the better as not all square footage lays out the same. I would stay where you are until you can be sure you can get exactly what you feel you need or you will be back here in a year with the same dilemna.

We are finishing up a build and there is a lot of extra money that gets added along the way - I wouldnt want the stress without a LOT of upside with the new home - what put yourself in that situation to entertain others a bit more comfortably?

totally agree the builder is a salesperson in this scenario

How often do this many people figure into the plan I have found I enjoy now having smaller dinner parties in my new downsized home . I for sure would not undertake anew build for 4 times a year for instance ,

If that was me, I’d do an old fashioned to-scale mockup with graph paper. Cause I’m a visual learner and not tech-savvy.

Sketch out your plan on graph paper. Include the furniture you want to place in it PLUS the folding table for extra people. And the chairs. Imagine each person as a 2 1/2‘ diameter circle.

Should be easy enough to see if there’s room for that many people to move around.

That is a SMALL house, and you will be lucky to be able to have 2 couples over, in addition to the 2 people that the home was built for. That would be bursting at the seams even. If you are designing for twice a year, then you can take all the furniture out of the living room, stuff it in the bedrooms, and fit a table big enough for that. But if that 12 people is a frequent thing, then you need a house that is more than twice as big. Or, your 10-12 people gethering needs to rent a restaurant.

Thank you everyone for your help and personal opinions I appreciate it a lot. The reason we are considering it is because although it’s not a ton of extra space we are gaining some other features that we don’t currently have (mud room with lockers, walk through pantry, bonus room upstairs, bigger ensuite bathroom and closet, and a bedroom in the basement).

We have 6 people over often maybe once a month and 8 people over maybe 3-4 times a year but only have the 10-12 people over once or twice a year. It’s okay for us if it’s a bit squishy since we have a lot of our must haves and having a new furnace, hot water tank, appliances and being able to choose everything is a positive for us as well.

I should say- Those numbers include us in the total as well.

Who and how many is "us"?

Oh right! I counted us as My husband and I. We have a one year old and a three year old which now that I’m typing it I suppose I should take them into account because they’ll get bigger and need a spot at the table too during those gatherings of 6 people (my parents, my brother/sister in law, and us plus my two kids are the ones they often get together).

You have a household of 4, and that home is right at the bare minimum to accomodate that on a daily basis. With the occasional squishing of a couple of more people. You don't even have the cooking infrastructure to accommodate a banquet room sized holiday gathering. Much less the socializing of that many people. That idea needs to either fly away, or be outsourced.

This does not sound like the build that you need to be considering. Or the subdivision either.

DR: suggest a table that sits 6 but has an extension to accommodate 8 when needed (or just opt for less bulky chairs). We add a card table, or a longer foldable table with padded folding chairs, providing seating for 10-12. Once you add table cloths and set table, it looks fine.

LR: a couch and occasional chairs should work, but their size/volume will be important and their location. Try testing on paper to scale and keep in mind other needs (tv, tables, etc). I think the LR may be more of the issue space wise, but usually people end up around island as well.

Design a home for your current circumstances and those one year from now, five years from now, ten years from now, twenty years from now, fifty years from now, and one hundred years from now. You will be happy you did, or at least you will not be upset you did not.

It is a very small house in fact smaller than my downsize I think. Does it have a basement to move kids down there to play later maybe even a TV room there instaed of the LR only you know what you need But to not understand kids grow fast that you for sure need to think about . Not to mnetion the stuff they will need along the way. A mud room the size of a walkin closet will not work for long. My advice sit down with a good ID and be honest about what you cn fford but also what you will need in the very near future . We had 3 kids and almost every dinner we had at least one more kid at the table so needed right away atable for 6 really . I do not think you need to build a house thet will accomodate all the changes that will happen along the road but 10 yrs out seem reasonable to plan for. I totally agree with an actual to scale floor plan with every measuremnt clearly marked the use cardboard to cut out to the same scale furniture and see how it works . I do this often for clients so they get a visual of space .

"the builder thought it would be a big difference"

Of course, to their bank account.

"You have a household of 4, and that home is right at the bare minimum to accomodate that on a daily basis"

At least for current suburban or rural, middle class and above, "mainstream" American culture.

With narrow house design and a front-load garage, the critical points that determine it's success is the location of stairs and front entry. Here, they have created areas of inefficient space. But it does not sound like you have much choice to change anything substantial, this is apparently what the builder is building.

I would suggest drawing out a floor plan on graph paper - kitchen, living and dining. Then cut out paper that represents your furnishings and see how they map out. Not everyone lives in a large home. Many are fine with a well appointed place and make due. Most of the homes around me are raised ranches and their dimensions are smaller than what you are showing and folks did fine with holidays and entertaining. You will adapt to what you have - you have the luxury of making some changes now to make it fit you better.

That pantry would be a no from me. All that wasted space for a hallway - IMO. So many doors in that mudroom - where are you coming in from? A garage? a porch? I think that corner should be reworked.

Is this the whole main floor? Are there windows in the dining room? Can you do windows on the tv wall instead and have the tv on the staircase wall or current window wall so furniture would not be backed onto the dining table? That might give more room for expansion and additional seating. I think I would turn the island too.

It would be nice if you have a kitchen designer working with you that would consider putting in the whole space so you can see how it all relates.

Maybe conider enlarging your current home.

Thank you everyone for your help! I’m going to look at using some graph paper and map everything out.

Someone mentioned maybe the stairs could be moved? I’ll ask the builder about that when I meet with him next to see if there’s anything we can do to get some more space in there.

I’m in Canada and our area new lots are quite small so typically no room to build out or wider on most lots. So I’ll take a look at some of the suggestions here and go from there. Thanks so much!

Figure a seated person needs *at least* 2.5 feet of table to not be elbowing his neighbor. That is not roomy, that is kind of tight especially if anyone is large, but for the occasional big dinner parties people can behave themselves, sit up straight, try to not knock over the glassware or stab each other.

So 6 people in a row need about 15 feet. If you put four on each long side and one at each short side (end) of the table, still about 15 feet because the end people need room.

We have a long table and a fairly large dining room. When we have 12, 14, 16, etc for dinner we have to add another table that sticks into the living room. Our record is 20.

I grew up in a relatively large house with a relatively large dining room. We did have dinner parties with 10-12 people at the dining room table. But when we had a lot of people in the house- we set up the buffet. People took a plate and ate wherever they felt comfortable- dining room, living room, kitchen, porch, weather permitting outside, etc. I feel it worked out well.

If I was mainly needing a setup to entertain a large group once or twice a year- instead of spending a ton of money building a house- I would seriously consider renting a hall once or twice a year. And cater it.

Or do a buffet. And cater it.

Canada is fairly large. There should be space for a larger lot. The path to get there requires more effort than you may be considering yet. My suggestion is to stay put and look for better property to build on. Well and septic can open more choices.

Dan, have you been to Toronto? In many of the new developments the houses are packed together with just enough space to walk between.

Canada is quite large is such a bizarre comment! OP is obviously looking to live in a planned community where lots are not so large. Who knows where this is but like many places in the US the size of the country is irrelevant to where the affordable homes are being built. Most subdivisions are not sprawling beauties.

Opinions vary. Mine has been this house does not come close to fulfilling the stated requirements of the OP. The quality shown in pictures is low. I would look elsewhere AND delete a builder from the project. Not only could you reduce your cost by 50%, you can upgrade quality of every part of the build by being your own gc. More personal effort for more reward. Being an owner/builder is totally legal in the US and I assume Canadians are no different.

I go to large parties all the time in houses not designed for that. With informal eating, people might stage when they get food until there's a seat, pick anywhere to sit (living, dining, chairs against walls, stair steps) - and I don't ever hear anyone complain (of course people save that for the car ride home). People's expectations are also more forgiving when the host is young, and certainly close family shouldn't care about accomodations (unless they are miserable people). With formal sit downs, tables in Foyers haven't been a big deal, and the kiddie table shoved anywhere makes do.

You've listed more important reasons to buy this new construction than where people sit for a handful of times a year, and I'm sure being outside in summer will solve a lot of those times. It's just a personal lifestyle and weighing of what's important to you. Really, I don't see anything critical about this house in terms of having 6 people over, or 12 once in a while.

And TBH, I have a large house that accomodates large parties, and I notice people hover in factions. Sometimes I miss the old days of the small house and (forced) intimate gatherings.

@dan1888, zero lot line communities exist all over the US, despite being a ”large” country. I’ve no doubt they exist in Canada, too…surrounding major cities. Planned, zero lot line communities are less expensive to buy into. It would appear that the OP’s funds are limited. This build would work for them, price-wise.

While there is little about the floorplan of this house I find appealing, (the whole kitchen/mudroom/pantry area is a tiny, wasted space mess), not everyone has the funds to purchase a large piece of land, hire contractors and architects to self build on. Often that involves clearing and/or leveling the property, for a start. There’d be a need to acquire a multitude of permits for nearly every step of the process.

The OP seems intent on purchasing this home, no matter the concensus here. People have been making do, and adjusting to limited space since the beginning of time. Perhaps, further down the line, the OP’s family will have acquired more wealth. They can then move on to a larger home. For now, I’m sure they’ll figure it out.

Ive visited the north side or Lakes area of Toronto. from my first hand knowledge many homes get renovated to add efficincies / changing outdated floor plans and some w added sq footage. we dont know the extent this poster had searched . there is good transportation around Toronto .. how thorough has the search been? no reason to compromise where it may hurt the prospects for a satisfying end result. i think i might wait .

Thanks everyone. I appreciate the comment about how much space you need for sitting at the table. That’s definitely what I was trying to figure out for planning we and in that case I think we are slightly small still.

It’s not that I’m necessarily intent on the house. We are definitely leaning towards it because of the other upgrades it would give us. And also this is a medium/big house in our area. Our budget is quite high and there’s no waiting for extra money to come in unfortunately. Ha what we have is what we have. I think we could get a larger house if we bought an older one but then we aren’t sure if it’ll have all of our must haves and then it would likely need upgrades of furnace/air conditioner/ hot water tank etc. So there’s definitely pros and cons to building or waiting and buying something already built.

We definitely could never build on our own. We have a hard enough time envisioning basic dimensions let alone designing and contracting a whole house haha

I do wonder if maybe there’s some geographical differences that will create varying opinions as well. I do appreciate everyone’s comments and help.

Having a mud room/locker area is a must have for us and I do love walk through pantries. I agree there’s some wasted space near the stairs for sure. I’m wondering if maybe we could rework that area to get a bit more room in the dining room.

I would agree there is definitely wasted space in the circled area (and actually, to the right of it too). These hallways and doorways eat up so much room. You could create a much smaller pantry that’s not walkthru. Walk-in would be better, and reach-in would be better yet. Actually I don’t see a good reason for a pantry and a mudroom to be two different rooms.

If you could eliminate everything in the red circle and the area to the right, you could slide the whole kitchen down into that space. That would give you 3 more feet for your dining room.

Another thought - is that staircase going up or down or both? If its only one-way, maybe you could steal some space under/over the stairs to move the entry closet there.

This may help illustrate inefficiencies in a walkthrough pantry and the way the spaces are laid out.

Two houses that are the same number of SF can function completely differently - so, it's not just about the SF.

Maybe post a sketch of your current home (first floor) - there may be a way to rearrange your current home (plus add a few things you'd like) due to wasted space in the current layout.

What is the total SF for each house? How much more are you spending in order to gain whatever the extra number of SF?

People move all the time and do not increase the SF of their home by 2,000 sf - that's just not a typical situation for most people.

@dana are you in Toronto area? I missed that if so. You talk about an older house not having your must haves but just a reminder this house doesn’t either. It is just a matter of what you want to tolerate. We have renovated a home and lived with the limitations as well as built a custom home, and even then there are limits unless someone is extremely rich, and there is no one way to do it. Both provided us with great home’s we love(d)

We are near Calgary. Not quite as expensive as Toronto but still limited. what we can afford.

It’s so true. I think we will have limitations either way. I just wish I could visualize space better or had the ability to switch up blueprints.

Thank you for sending a picture of that! It definitely does take up extra space. Maybe I’ll see if we can switch that up when we meet!

We are in Vancouver so next door, sort of :) I know a lot of people buy in subdivisions ajd they are super popular here too in the suburbs but honestly there is also beauty in an established neighbourhood where every house isn’t Tue same.

The short answer is no. You don't have near the room to entertain that anount of people. This is your space to scale with a 72" table for 6 with a 36" space on each end of the table for flow.

If you were not changing the floor plan you could do something creative like have a built in bench done on the wall between your cabinet end and wall. To do this flip you dining window and door. This would give you the ability to bump your table against that bench wall and increase your seating on the bench side. Table is bumped up to a 78" length.

Then when you are entertaining a larger crowd you can extend that table to 120" seatng for 12 by flipping it .Move shallow sofa table under dining window as a server creating a bit more space to walk around that end of table postion

Oh wow thank you so much for the thoughtful reply!! I will definitely look into this. I’m alright with having to flip things around for the few times a year we do it. It looks like it’s definitely workable with these photos. Thank you