@Rosylady (PNW zone 8), All the best to you for a floriferous year!

i’ve admired this rose! do you like stilleto or rouge better? which one blooms more? Diane’s is always so pretty, and i Love uow ruffly it looks. but im worried about disease reistance and bloom power

@SophiaTheReader .Comparing Rouge Royale and Stiletto is rather unfair, I think. RR is an older, budded plant that has a completely different look than Stilletto. I personally prefer the romantic shape of OGRs and often choose roses for fragrance potency and profile. For this reason, RR beats Stiletto in my book. However, Stiletto is a very easy-going plant and responds like most HT. In my conditions RR is much more the diva. Regarding remontancy, I think they are about the same as potted plants. I can’t say which might be more floriferous planted in choice spots, in-ground.

I didn’t have an ideal spot for RR, and when she was planted in west-facing, partial shade, RR got every disease under the sun here in my zone 10a garden. :(

I would say that if you really want that petal-packed look, which is often why gardeners consider RR, I would try growing it. It is beautiful and deliciously fragrant.

If you want that vivid cerise color and don’t mind sacrificing fragrance for easy routine care, Stiletto might just fit the bill.

Good luck with your decision!

That’s a gorgeous bloom, equal to many of the old OGR and OGR-inspired Austin reds. It‘s sold as Alain Souchon in Europe. I very much fall on the side of the OGR romantic style, fragrant bloom too.

It also reminds me of ’Soul’, a Tantau rose I have. Soul has large, quartered and/or ruffled reddish pink blooms with a rich and complex fragrance that says ’classy and expensive perfume’ to me. It’s still not been released in the US though, so I better not post any photos!

I saw “Soul” when I was in Germany last summer and decided that’s a rose for me if it ever comes over on our side of the puddle. The bloom is a bit softer in form, less crisp than RR, and the bush shape more rounded and natural than RR.

It would probably do better in your climate too, Judi. It comports itself well in heat but can ball in our heavy rains. Most ballers get short shrift here, but I keep this one because it’s not too bad and for all it’s other qualities.

@NollieSpainZ9, thank you for sparing me the slow death of pining for a rose that does not exist Stateside! Adding this to the list of covetable European varieties that have yet to be introduced here. :‘(

@judijunebugarizonazn8, your description of the RR bloom as crisp is something that I had thought from advertised pics of RR. That the petals have a stiff edge as if they were stacked paper, cut with an industrial rotating blade. However, IRL she doesn’t have that look/feel. Looking at pics of Soul, (ah, I’ve died a little inside) perhaps because the petals fold a bit in the center, much like Munsteadwood, it gives you a ”softer” impression?

I’d agree with Nollie that Soul and RR have a very similar look, and given Judi’s description of a more rounded bush shape, I’d further ask what the health is like for Soul. This is where the two might be notably distinct in my mind. If Soul has greater resistance to fungal diseases that would be a game changer for many more gardeners to be able to enjoy such blooms.

I can imagine Soul might well be more ’rounded and natural’ in a cooler climate Judi, especially if hard pruned every year, but in warmer climes it has a reputation for vigorously shooting up tall with rather stiff canes. I bent the canes when still flexible and espaliered against a low fence, which worked well. The bloom form does vary a lot, from crisply quartered to softly ruffled and sometimes quilled. It’s very healthy, the first flush is fabulous but repeat bloom is only so-so.. I’m actually on my second, because my first one (along with a few others in a southerly exposure) was turned to charcoal in an extremely hot summer combined with a calima - a searingly hot, sand-laden wind from Africa. I’m keeping my finger’s crossed this one does not suffer the same fate!

@NollieSpainZ9, from your description, Soul would be significantly more vigorous than RR, here in zone 10a!

As for a calima, my first time reading this word, golly, how surprising that you experience so many climatic phenomenon where you live! I’ve always thought that the sun here in California was harsher than in other places, but I dont have to contend with a superheated sandstorm incinerating everything! What a temperer of zone envy…

Nollie, there is another Tantau rose called ”Marietta” that also looks similar to RR. Have you see or had firsthand or secondhand experience with it?

Yes, we have our fair share of dramatic climate events, which seem to be getting ever more extreme. At least we haven’t had the golf ball sized hailstones here yet, they can furiously hurl down with little warning. They usually occur closer to the coast and can smash up cars and endanger life and limb!

Marietta, no I don’t know anyone that has that one, but Tantau only give it 2 out of 4 for disease resistance, so I have never been tempted to try it. Many European modern rose breeders’ roses get big and are more HT in growth habit, even if they call them shrubs.

Oh, don’t get me wrong, jjkOC. I love Rouge Royale and I think it will always stay in my garden. I’m not against the crisp petaled effect at all. In fact, I like them. But I also like the look of Soul. If they were too much alike, I couldn’t justify having both of them. ;) As it is, I plan to get Soul if it ever becomes available here, because I was quite impressed with what I saw in Germany, though it may behave quite differently here. My RR does get some Powdery Mildew in the spring, which bugs me, and I’d like to think that wouldn’t be a problem with Soul.

@NollieSpainZ9, we dont really get hail here, but it seems terribly dangerous! It’s so interesting how dramatically different climes can be and how roses respond to environments different from where they were hybridized. Thank you for sharing what you know about Marietta.

@judijunebugarizonazn8, it‘ll be a very intriguing experiment to compare RR and Soul head-to-head in the same garden!

Here’s a new bloom of RR on a rather blustery morning in the Southland. How I love her beauty!