That is the delimma. I might then have to wait till fall..and my unit might blow before then. Still rumours are the rebates may substantially increase. All I can do is ask once I make up mind.

The Spring Carrier Cool Cash rebate requires purchase by May 31. There is usually a Fall rebate program in case you miss it. In the past the rebate was paid directly to the customer. You should inquire if this is still the case.

Take the Bosch deal with or without the thermostat upgrade.

A new horse enters the race..Trane makes a generic brand...

A5HP5036A1000A with A5AHV005A1D30A air handler.

16 seer2 8.1 hspf2 and 12 eer2.

10 years parts 2 years labor.

10 yr compressor. 11.7k or with Jb 10 yr labor 13.6k.

As an FYI I had been considering that Bosch unit which is about the same price with no labor warranty. But recently after doing the math and being afraid something could go wrong with that technology I was actually just going to go with the Goodman unit my dad was getting which basically comes out to be 12.2K for me with a 10-year labor warranty I think I described this unit below. I think it's at best a 15 CR2 and a 7.8 HSPF if I recall I'd have to scroll down to see.

My final quotes came in today The guy quoted basically the trane 15 which is several thousand more than this run tru which he claims is really a trane unit in terms of quality.. I know it does not have the fancy topper I have on mine old 15i.

... He is also quoting a Bosch 17 sier but it doesn't seem like it's got as good a heating rating so I'm not sure how much that one would save me in the long run.

The fact that he said this unit was made by trane and I believe the specs on it are better than the Goodman has me wondering if this might not be the unit for me.

My gosh. After all that, the chosen solution is a 15.2 SEER2 / 8.1 HSPF2, Single-Stage Heat Pump, at $11.7K vs $13.5K for the high-efficiency Bosch. And remember that there is NO labor manufacturer labor warranty. But it surely is cheap; you can pick one up for $2400 (uninstalled)!

Lol..still thinking.

Bosch is most efficient but only has a 10 years parts warranty...no labor.

Goodman is cheapeat 12.2k with 10 year parts and 10 year labor.

Math says Goodman was safe bet cashwise. A couple of Bosch board in 10 years and labor bill could eat up my savings.

The new Run Tru has me thinking 13.7k but 10 years labor and parts. If I read correctly the parts themselves may be engineered a little better and it may have a better chance of lasting years 10 through 15.

IDK...

.

This

"Bosch is most efficient but only has a 10 years parts warranty...no labor."

"Goodman is cheapeat 12.2k with 10 year parts and 10 year labor."

No. None of them include labor. That "labor" is from a dealer, not the manufacturer. If the dealer is charging only $2K, than his expectation is that he won't have to provide any service or that you'll have to pay him regardless of the contract or promise or whatever. The dealer may not even be around for 10 or 15 years. Invest the $2K difference and pay as you go for any needed repairs. You'll accrue savings from over the life of the more-efficient unit as well.

"If I read correctly the parts themselves may be engineered a little better..."

Better than what? You have no way to know this.

You're over-analyzing. Just buy the Bosch and be done with it.

It's simple to say by the Bosch but one board issue or a leak or compressor issue and the labor to fix that in the first 10 years could suck up the savings I might accrue.

If I can find out if the JB warranty has a high enough reimbursement level - I understand there are different levels and probably should find out what level the $2,000 contract I'd be offered satisfies...ie what good is a contract if there's only two or three Bosch installers in the area and none of them want to do the work for a low reimbursement rate should my contractor go out of business as you mentioned.... I also understand that some JB contracts include diagnostic fees and sometimes even a certain amount towards refrigerant. It would seem I need to know these things to decide on paying the 2K or not. Since I worry about these things two out of three of those probably makes it appealing to me.

I think it's a JB contract satisfies 2 out of three of these things I'm leaning towards this trane run true system. If not well then maybe I'll roll the dice on the Bosch figuring The efficiency savings on it will pay for a repair should it not come till 5 years down the road..

And you're right I do overthink these things.

It's simple to say buy the Bosch but one board issue or a leak or compressor issue and the labor to fix that in the first 10 years could suck up the savings I might accrue.

Every unit regardless if it is the Bosch has the same problem (although without the savings for some of them). The advantage the Bosch has is every day it doesn't have a problem, it's putting you in better position to handle it.

Now if you go out and spend those savings on other burn it up quick garbage -- like eating out, vacationing, entertaining yourself, etc. You know all of life's lazy pleasures -- it won't matter which unit you pick because the recipe for being broke is to spend without a plan.

The warranty is for the unlucky few that trouble comes to, it doesn't mean you will have the trouble. In my experience from a hot and nearly always cooling market the Bosch is very hard to beat. Even with the stigma of them choosing R454b. While R32 and Goodman would be cheaper it is only marginal and the higher up you go Like the Fit (comparable) or the Fit Aurora (comparable) -- you get intertwined with "communicating" problems -- because those things are required to run as designed, not using them defeats the purpose of buying that option.

Any Trane product is going to suffer the same kind and maybe worse than the Bosch? And Why? Trane prices for repairs are crazy (after the warranty runs out) So no matter what you choose the result is the same? Pretty much, yes. (Carrier, Lennox same difference with maybe a few other caveats.)

This isn't to suggest a board issue with the Bosch will be cheap, it won't. But mine has had no issues to date since October 2019. It was the top model at the time, I would still choose the top model again if it were me. Last month my electric bill was $59.00 -- just because problems with the "drive" of the unit could happen doesn't mean that will be your problem. Now if that happens after year 10, you may consider a new unit -- put that money into another new unit with a new warranty.

That would also cut refrigerant expense because the new unit has most of the charge already in it.

I have been in the unfortunate few in the past. I get what you are saying...but I keep thinking if a board or God forbid the conessor goes.. especially early on .there go my savings

...and maybe more. With the run tru...i can more peacefully sleep for a decade.

I also have some concerns that there are not many certified Bosch folks in my area...maybe more will appear over time....

" if there's only two or three Bosch installers in the area and none of them want to do the work for a low reimbursement rate..."

It doesn't work that way. A JB warranty is tied to the dealer from which you bought the equipment and warranty. You can't get service from another dealer.

The Bosch Heat Pump warranty covers labor for 90 days. According to its FAQ, you can delay buying a JB Warranty for two years. So if the unit is running fine, skip the warranty and pocket the savings.

EOM.

If you pay for the labor warranty up front the money is gone whether you need a labor repair or not. If you take the money and invest it, the odds are in your favor that you will keep most if not all the money. Exteneded warranties are a very profitable product for warranty companies. The key thing is if the equipment is improperly installed the probability of a repair increases. If you are doing any over thinking it should be about the installer.

The Bosch heat pump, based I on what I have read, appears to be a very good product. However I think you will be disappointed if your banking on reducing the number of killowatt hours used in heating and cooling.

Paralysis from analysis seems to be going on here.

Yes!!!! Lol. They say get three estimates..I'd have been better off with one! But I am done.. it's likely the Bosch 19 seer2 or the trane run tru...without the Labor warranty in the trane the Bosch is about $1500 more. Again for about the same price I get the trane labor covered for 10 years. My current trane has been good to me .... My dad is going with the goodman I think..cheaper yet but the trane should be a bit more efficient.

Funny because the guy mentioned to me when I questioned the jb warranty ....said you actually better off with JB than if the warranty is through only the installer who sells it to you bexause if they go out of business you're screwed The JD warranty can be handled by other folks so now I guess I got to ask that question too....

"you actually better off with JB than if the warranty is through only the installer"

False. You can't buy a JB warranty from the company, only from the installer, and the warranty is tied to that installer.

"The JD warranty can be handled by other folks"

Nope.

I read on the internet I know famous last words.... That if you're installer went out of business you called JB and they'll assign your contract to another installer... All good questions to ask I guess...

There are *almost* always short comings of some kind dealing with a 3rd party for paying claims. I have found it rare to offer much, that being said it seems the JB warranties appear better greatly depending on which "plan" was bought and likely the better plan costs much more than merely the basic plan.

Then on top of that, you need proof of annual maintenance records. Those records have to be from a service provider, not something a home owner can do themselves. So cost on top of cost on top of cost. I am not saying annual maintenance shouldn't be performed, but often times the actual amount of maintenance required at various houses due to an assortment of reasons -- some just don't require half the amount of actual maintenance where as others require more. (think landscaping issues etc.)

I don't think there would be any trouble finding a new provider if you had the highest tier JB warranty plan. Provided of course you have all the necessary maintenance paperwork and the new company taking over had the will to continue providing that annual maintenance.

I doubt the Trane Run Tru will be without problems for 10 years. The compressor in these are likely Chinese or Korean. So assembled in USA doesn't mean much. Cheaper is Cheaper here for a reason.

The compressor used in the Bosch is a GMCC which appears to be some kind of work partnership between Carrier and Midea. I think they at one point used to be Mitsubishi compressor.

Why not ask for the JB warranty on the Bosch. Obviously that would likely cost more but you're not comparing apples to apples here anyway. The Bosch is in a completely different league compared to the Run Tru.

I think the comparison is along the lines of Stallion vs Mule, as fruit comparison is a bit wonky IMHO.

Is says the runtr is the same part as the trane for the compressor. Does that mean the trane is Chinese as well?

I can ask what tier ib is being provided.

The Bosch I weird... another HVAC quoted the aforementioned 19seer2 premium at 13.5k ...no labor warranty and won't offer one.

The run tru guy quoted a middle bosch system (Plus?)17 seer at 14.4k plus another 2k for the JB warranty. His price was 1k more for the plus system and the other guys premium system.

Anyway, yeah two different extremes of systems. The Bosch premium no labor warranty is about that same price as the run tru with 10 year labor warranty..assume each will require a repair..that is fair. Run Tru is covered where as Bosch eats up about half of what it might have saved me over 10 years.

Assuming

Just buy:

• Bosch BOVA-36RTB-M20S IDS Premium - Inverter Ducted Split Heat Pump
• Bosch BIVA-36RCB-M20X Bosch IDS Heat Pump Premium Series Air Handler
• Honeywell Home TH2320WF4010 FocusPRO S200 Smart Thermostat

...which were offered to you for $13,445. According to what you pasted above, a one-year labor warranty was included (the Bosch units include a 90-day manufacturer's labor warranty as discussed earlier).

Stop the analysis paralysis! Buy the best system and invest $2K for possible, future repair labor costs.

Enough already!

Still leaning towards the run tru. As you say..forget the warranty.. the Bosch is now 1.8k more than Run Tru with no warranty. That is likely better than half of what is save over 10 years with the Bosch. Again..add one repair and it's a wash. And the Bosch is more expensive to repair typically. And run Tru has 2 labor year warranty.

I think run tru wins at this point. I will find out more about warranty before committing.

Analysis done!

Thanks all...

"run Tru has 2 labor year warranty"

No, it doesn't.

The Bosch I weird... another HVAC quoted the aforementioned 19seer2 premium at 13.5k ...no labor warranty and won't offer one.

Probably because they know that 3rd party warranties are often times a mixed bag, require a bunch of stuff to get paid, cost more money that you may never need, etc. etc. The premium JB warranty is the better warranty, pays the best etc. but it will cost more, and so I've been down this road and it's rarely ever cracked up what it's worth. You know the money you paid for it in advance.

I mean you can think protection all you want... until you go to use it and find out that might be in year 9 or 10. A lot can happen in 9 or 10 years.

The warranty is written for now. If inflation is crazy bad, that warranty won't be worth the paper it's printed on. That's the other con to protection type warranties.

My savings with the Bosch 18 SEER has been an average of 40% annually compared to that of a 14 SEER entry level unit. (not SEER 2, just regular SEER) A few years I hit near 50% the worst year was around 30%. These savings come from AC mode, because this mode is what I use the most 10 months of the year. No repair issues since Oct 2019.

The trane run tru is cheaper made than regular trane... why make the regular trane that costs more money then everyone just buy the cheaper version. So what is the highest cost of the regular trane? compressor, all day everyday. Trane isn't run like Daikin, Amana, Goodman... trane can't be like that... because? all those apt. buildings that have row after row of nothing but Goodman units. Only Goodman can be Goodman. Because they know something Trane doesn't. Trane says it's hard to stop a trane, but you have all these Goodman units running at apts. year after year?

But, but, but... So the same goes for Bosch. Nothing can be a Bosch. -- no where close yet.

As has been discussed in this forum and many other places in recent years, the control boards on Bosch inverter products seem to be very finicky and prone to failure. I don't know if replacement boards are immediately available, at one point there was a wait.

Also, they can get fried (as with other brands) when there's a power surge. Such damage is typically not covered by the warranty and the parts and labor for replacement can run a few thousand dollars.

I invite and hope that the resident Bosch guru can provide current experience on this point.

As has been discussed in this forum and elsewhere in recent years, the control boards for Bosch inverter products can be finicky. At one time, they were on back order and the wait to get one could take several months.

Also, such electronic components can get fried if the house experiences a power surge. That damage isn't covered by the warranty of a Bosch or any other brand. This damage risk of power surges is equally applicable to all products that are plugged into an electrical connection.

But a difference is that, as I've heard, the parts and labor cost of replacing a Bosch board can be a few thousand dollars. If the supply channel slowness has continued, that could also expose the homeowner to weeks of uncontitioned interior space when outdoor weather is inhospitable.

I hope the resident Bosch guru can enlighten us with his experiences with board quality, board availablility from distributors, and the cost to a customer of having to replace one outside of warranty.

Also, they can get fried (as with other brands) when there's a power surge. Such damage is typically not covered by the warranty and the parts and labor for replacement can run a few thousand dollars. I invite and hope that the resident Bosch guru can provide current experience on this point.

I have seen others have issues with board failures on You Tube. I have not witnessed this personally. I don't install surge protectors which may be gambling to some extent. I have seen others install surge protectors and still have board failures? um yes.

Surge protectors aren't fail safe? No, you walk the line. Heat is more deadly to these boards in my opinion. I live in a hot climate yet I haven't seen a Bosch Board failure yet? nope, not a single one.

My Bosch again was installed in Oct 2019. At this stage it is no spring chicken. -- Zero Trouble.

I think there has been more board issues with the light versions of the Bosch scheme where as the premium product rarely has any issues and none that I have seen personally. I've probably installed half dozen of them. Every time there is a problem I've gone out on it's always been something other than the Bosch, like dead batteries in the thermostat -- things like that.

There won't be any capacitor problems like you normally have with traditional HP's and AC's while the unit does have capacitors they are tied to the board and are of the super capacitor kind. So if those capacitors fail? You're looking at that new drive board.

What causes capacitors to fail? power surge? this probably doesn't help matters... but the number 1 rated death killer for capacitors is? HEAT.

So you can put all the surge protectors you want -- but why would you only do that for your AC? The whole house should have a surge protecter protecting everything you have hooked to the grid.

I have been in 2 homes that actually suffered power surge event. 1 home lost EVERYTHING. But the AC was of the older variety --- I was able to repair it. Another home lost a few things, I think a couple of TV's, microwave, refrigerator and a circuit board in the furnace.

So your odds for those kinds of events? slim to none. 2 homes in over 30 years.

The problem or cons with power surge protection devices?

Yes, power surge protection devices (SPDs) have notable downsides, including a limited lifespan, the need for replacement after absorbing major surges, and the inability to protect against direct lightning strikes. They also come with upfront costs and do not guarantee 100% protection for sensitive electronics. Reddit +3Key cons to consider include:

• Degradation Over Time: Surge protectors use components called Metal Oxide Varistors (MOVs) that degrade with every surge they absorb.
• Maintenance & Replacement: They must be replaced periodically, generally every 3-5 years, or immediately after a major surge event.
• False Sense of Security: Many, especially cheaper, "power strip" style protectors do not offer robust protection against high-voltage events like direct lightning strikes.
• Cost: While small plug-in units are cheap, high-quality, whole-house systems require professional installation, which adds to the initial investment.
• Performance Indicators: You must check that the indicator light is on to ensure the protection is still active; if the light goes out, the device is no longer protecting your electronics.

So now you know why I gamble a little. {False sense of security} people have this notion to be sold 1 time and every thing you buy degrades over time. (maintenance)

You jumped into a lot of other areas I hadn't asked about but fine. If you've only worked with six units, that may not be enough exposure to say one way or the other.

Thanks for replying.

Elmer J Fudd: "I don't know if replacement boards are immediately available, at one point there was a wait."

Control boards for the Bosch IDS Premium 20 Inverter heat pump are immediately available, even from Amazon...and even with free shipping!

For comparison:

• Time to type "I don't know if replacement boards are immediately available": 15 seconds
• Time to find out if replacement boards are immediately available: 5 minutes

that may not be enough exposure

So the exposure isn't zero, but 6 or 7 units if I count my own is not enough to form an opinion?

You know how firemen discover where most fires are at? smoke.

Certainly I have much more exposure to non Bosch units, the problems with those? varies like the wind. Maybe in the realm nearing 1000? I don't know I haven't counted them.

Bosch is considered premium equipment. It's not for everyone or every situation. But it is a viable solution, that works I might add.

I was already good at installing units before Bosch became available. So we also know my methods work? yeah.

Well we have to install a broad number of something to determine if its any good. Your mind is a marvel... forcing yourself to wait 6 weeks because to determine if anyone is good at something they have to be so busy. I still can't understand the philosophy in that. (That's probably not enough exposure to reality) LOL.

Mike Home that thread is malarky not very far into it... someone says the savings is $10 month or $120 a year. (Be careful what you read on the internet being spread as fact) -- no different here.

I am averaging savings of anywhere from $700 to $800 a year. Say $750 a year times 6 years. That's $4500 at least, compared to a single speed 14 seer unit that was costing me over $1500 annually to operate at the same utility price points. Paying around 14 cents per KWH.

The higher the utility rate goes, the better the spread. Obviously the con people get here is if they live in a not so hot or not so cold location where the unit sits there. You can't save money on utilities (not really) to the extent of what the unit costs because it just sits there and only marginally being used. The savings come from actually using it. (You know why context is important.)

To compare this same function to that of an EV you know with gas prices raging again. Oh I need to spend 50k, 70k whatever to save a few dollars a gallon on on gasoline costs. This is fine if you are driving I don't know 30,000 miles a year or something. But if the car is used to less than 5000 miles a year? You won't save enough gas to cover the cost of the EV.

You only get the savings by actually needing to operate it significantly. (heating or cooling)

" 6 or 7 units if I count my own is not enough to form an opinion? "

No, not as I see it.

I don't know what your annual volume of new installs is but if in 6.5 years or more (I'm counting from when you installed one for yourself) you've only sold 5 or 6, I'd say your customers aren't finding your sales presentation to choose Bosch very convincing.

I'm primarily a repair man, not a replacer. While those jobs come that is not my primary focus.

So with focusing on repairs + plus getting installs? I am 1 guy doing it all. Most of the time this is in 95F+ degree heat plus humidity.

I'm not here to convince anyone. I'm here to present options, the same went with those Bosch, people choose what they want there were other options presented.

The problem is Mr Fudd only sees what he wants to. The advantage of living in a moderate climate and being able to wait 6 weeks for service to prove the busy jargon you're looking for.

Ok so 6-7 units with rarely a problem needs how many more units to satisfy the whims of someone who can wait 6 weeks for service because they don't actually need HVAC (any form of it is a luxury)?

I don't care what people buy, but I offer the Bosch because it solves more than 1 problem and it is good how it does it. It costs more so it's not the only solution... you know like we've been discussing it for what seems like a month now.

Here is additional comments from owners of Bosch heat pumps. There a many threads on Reddit discussing the topic.

What's your experience with Bosch heat pump?

Anyone can form an opinion on anything without any level of experience or expertise. It's an opinion. A trade professional is certainly entitled to their opinion. However, for a trade "professional" to generalize about the performance and reliability of a particular brand or model based on a sample size of six or seven systems in a single climate zone does folks a disservice.

reliability of a particular brand or model based on a sample size of six or seven systems in a single climate zone does folks a disservice.

Use any brand name you want. Go to consumer reviews you will see from those large results any and all brands ranking low due to various trouble?

Yes! Why? because only the people with trouble are the most likely to post a review. Very rarely does someone with good experience post a review.

Trane Consumer Reviews ranked 1.4 stars out of 5

Carrier Consumer Reviews ranked 1.1 out of 5

Lennox Consumer Reviews ranked 1.2 out of 5

You think Bosch will rank higher? no. Problem is they include Bosch appliances with in so the results are skewed as Trane, Carrier, Lennox do not make home appliances like dishwashers and such.

So a smaller sampling controlled by me is beneficial how? I control the whole operation, I install the machine myself. I maintain these systems myself. You're not likely to find that anywhere and it's because this is a disservice? (Builder logic, get the HVAC grunts on the line stat!)

Most builders don't have a good track record either, if you read the news.

Do you honestly think if something was giving me problems with a lot of failures that I then would go out and install that unit in my own home?

If you think that, you deserve what ever life gives you.

Ray,

You simply need to make full disclosure when promoting the Bosch product, i.e., that your experience base with Bosch is limited to the single system installed in your personal home and servicing around six other systems in as many years in your local market People can decide for themselves whether that's a good enough statistical sampling to conclude anything about a Bosch system.

So for years now these systems have been running with no problems and what problems do happen are the result of minor things like dead batteries in a thermostat.

You have to remember there's 1 person involved here, where that is not the norm in the HVAC industry.

How does this translate into common sense?

Too many cooks in the kitchen spoils the broth.

We're talking since 2019 when I started selling these most of them have been going for years now. One customer suffered a coil failure that was made by trane, not bosch. One had dead batteries in the thermostat. Another one had an intermittent problem related to blower control on a furnace that again was not made by bosch.

Another one had another evap coil failure (leaking refrigerant) again this wasn't a Bosch branded coil. Bosch condenser works pretty much with anything, something you can't do with the other brands because of proprietary communication controls, not to mention other limitations.

None of those problems became an issue because? I handled the problem and solved it. In common sense terms they call this: HVAC Service and Repair.

Something the builder will never understand because he's a builder. Onto the next build.... (use the proper tool for the job or suffer the consequences)

Six or seven systems is a pretty small sampling, and in your case, it's all systems in one (Katy, TX) climate zone. That makes extrapolating your experience riskier than it would be if it involved dozens of systems across multiple climate zones.

Imagine a consumer researching a new vehicle to purchase. They find a post from a mechanic in, say, Katy, Texas who is promoting "brand X" trucks. Turns out the mechanic owns one of them and has worked on a total of six of them in the past six years. He reports that they all required minimal effort to repair. The mechanic's experience may be valid, but it's not a lot on which to base a purchase decision.

I just realized I have almost as much experience myself. Three different systems with a gas furnace and AC, all the same brand (one of the Top 3), in two locations. Installed by skilled contractors, one with a 4 week backlog at the time, the other with a 6 week backlog for installs (as I best remember) because their reputations and high ratings keep them very busy. I recommend the brand highly. I just checked - two are ten years old, one is a few years younger.

The two ten year old systems had their periodic maintenance this past week. (I had to wait 2.5 weeks for the next available appointment when I called.). Complete inspections, cleaning, testing as normal (measuring temp differentials, gauges on the AC units and removal of the top grill of the outside unit holding the condenser fan motor to allow hosing off the coils from the inside out). Clean bills of health for both. I realize many of these steps are ultimately unnecessary if the units seem to function normally but as with cars, proactively getting period inspections and checkups can identify problems at an early stage.

So unlike the several problems mentioned above with Bosch units (ignoring the thermostat one), all three of mine have been trouble free.

Mr. Fudd you are taking things I say *out of context*

You live in a moderate climate, no one would wait for 2.5 weeks / 6 weeks for service around these parts. In a moderate climate the HVAC equipment is rarely put thru any real test for any real amount of time.

Where as Katy, Tx these machines get a work out 10 months of the year.

Imagine someone reading the reviews in the links I posted realizing all brands get bad reviews the larger the sample size and realize how important the installation process is as well as the climate they live in.

Imagine someone like me knowing the cruel facts of all these poor reviews yet some how I manage to have the time to post long indepth rebuttals to the knuckleheads of the morning that don't do HVAC for a living. The machines I've installed rarely have a problem, yet this doesn't mean problem free.

So imagine the OP who now has had two long winded posts discussing these things, displaying analysis paralysis and the fact of the larger sample size will only make things worse for said OP.

The knuckleheads of the morning have done more damage to the situation of the OP all for the sake of what? Proving nothing.

Analysis paralysis is the state of overthinking or over-analyzing a situation to the point where a decision or action is never taken, resulting in "paralysis". It occurs when an individual or group is overwhelmed by too many options or excessive data, leading to anxiety, fear of making the wrong choice, and stalled productivity.

Hence too big of a size sample. This situation made worse by too much information. Too many people who don't even do HVAC for a living. There are machines made much better 15 -20 years ago, pretty much all brands. So to put those machines with in the mix of what has transpired over the last 10 years will only make matters worse when putting those comparison mixes into the equation. That is always what happens when you take a larger and larger sample size in anything. Does this mean that equipment used 15-20 years ago never got replaced early? Check that sample size? you don't know because you don't work on HVAC. You don't see the call outs, going behind other companies? I actively talk to people> big surpise? Look that this thread, other threads.

No matter where I go (on the internet or in person) people are people. This attribute doesn't change. Some will listen to wisdom, some will flee from it. Do I care about that attribute? no.

A fool and his money are soon parted. I just let it play out. Things I can't control I'm not going to try. If someone listens does this mean they won't have trouble? ha, hardly. HVAC industry was built on trouble. Key pointers have been given, it's not always roses thorns are there too.

Models change, comparing this to auto market is irrelevant. You aren't driving your HVAC unit down the street hitting every pot hole imagined or unimagined.

That being said... it's also not an entirely bad thing if the OP waits, unless his current unit puts him in the position he is trying to avoid. (a broken unit in the dead of winter)

HVAC service and repair. What does that mean? Does it mean you will never need service again or repair? Some exist only to sell you a new unit. Why the larger sample size is error prone.

In case you missed it: I service the Katy, Texas area. Small sample size with proof things I do work. If they don't I can fix it.

--------

6:14 am

It's up to the OP to make a purchase decision based on information from whatever sources they choose. Unfortunately, the folks who sell and install HVAC systems aren't always the most knowledgeable or objective. Caveat emptor.

Yeah I have an infamous saying for that logic too Charles.

If you don't like what I say now, you certainly will not like what I have to say if our paths cross again.

Choose carefully. Not just on a name, and certainly not just on price either.

Boy I really didn't mean to stir up the pot here.

My decision is based on the forum, talking with three HVAC companies, what I googled on the internet and yes the evil AI.

First I'm on a budget. I am not spending $15k or more. When started this I was hoping I coukd get everything done for 12K including a 10 year labor warranty.

Boy did I learn a lot fast! No more tax credits...2k gone right there.

I kind of narrowed it down to three units previously listed about

GOODMAN 14 SEER2 .. likely does not qualify for even the $350 PP&L rebate - The only rebate left for me at this point.unit offered with 10-year parts and labor contract. Installing ever got back to me on exactly what the labor warranty entailed. Out the door was a little over 12K. My impressions are Goodman's have a crappier reputation perhaps due to poor installations, cheaper readily available parts, can be decent unit.

Bosch 19 Seer2. This is actually the unit I was most interested in because it had a potential of saving me the most money. I was happy with the installer but they refused to quote a 10-year warranty at any price. The unit's been around for less than 10 years. Not a lot of complaints other than expensive repairs for boards etc already discussed. 13.5k etx.

Trane run tru 15+ Seer2. About 13.5 k with a JB labor warranty that is transferable should be contractor go out of business. It also includes a $250 labor rate in that case. It also includes refrigerant. I would of course speak again with the installer verifying all this and making sure there are no loop holes before signing.

The unit seems to be similar to my 17 year old trane 15i though it will lack the nice green fancy case that I have now and perhaps be a little bit more loud...Sad for my neighbor but at least it's only his garage facing the unit.

My research sort of tends to indicate that this can be a better and longer lasting unit and the Goodman Especially if I'm looking for more than 10 years. I know that's debatable. It's cooling and heating capacity are also a little bit better than the Goodman and my current unit so I should have some savings. This is the unit I'm leaning towards. My local PP&L supplier is supposed to announce their new rebate structure for the first time in 5 years in June

..was hoping for rebates better than the current the $350 the Trane qualifies for... However waiting might cost me more than whatever increase they provide what would the war and increase costs etc etc so I might just do this this spring.

Again all this is based on talking to contractors talking to people googling AI and your comments. I just know I'm going to sleep better at night if I have a 10-year labor warranty. I get it other people feel completely different about that and consider a waste of money.

I'm right back once I've made a decision and had a unit installed.

" You live in a moderate climate, no one would wait for 2.5 weeks / 6 weeks for service around these parts. "

I think you like to forget and misconstrue my circumstances that I've told you about a few times. My situation was that I was proactively replacing older and less efficient equipment that was still functioning fine. I chose to act before having any problems.

Better contractors in my area, whether HVAC or other trades, are busy and have backlog schedules. That's been the case for decades and decades. HVAC folks will respond for "emergency" situations but something that can wait, has to wait.

I waited about 4 weeks and 6 weeks for the new installs in two different locations. Just in the last week or so, as I mentioned, I had to wait 2.5 weeks for the maintenance visit.

It's worth waiting for trades contractors who have high local reputations and as a result are very busy with backlogs. My experiences more than reenforced my choices. I also had to wait a week or more for their visit to assess my situations and work up a bid.

I will always avoid someone who's available same day or in a few days for a non-emergency call. There's a reason they're not busy and it's easy to figure out why.

Contractors I had out said since it's spring they would have no problem getting to this unit in within a or so... But the wait could be longer if not an emergency in the summer...

Only the very largest may keep some inventory on hand. They otherwise would have to wait some number of days to receive shipments from the distribution points if not available locally.

Hopefully the contributing HVAC guy can share his own actual knowledge of how much time is needed to receive the large boxes. It probably varies from brand to brand, depending on the location of their supplies and the location of their customers (the contractors)

It is best to have an installation during the slow periods of the season. This means early Spring or early to mid Fall in your area.

mike and Andre have good points about the slower times of the year, to a point. My 6 and 4 week wait experiences for installation both ran from April into May. In different years, in different parts of the state (Bay Area and SoCal).

Well it's done. Only thing I didn't like is my old unit all the copper and stuff came out the back and went directly into the house this one it's on the corner and while there's very seldom anyone on the side of our house The potential is there for kids playing ball about 25 ft away to shoot a basketball admiss or something so I'm wondering how I might protect this without putting a whole fence around the entire unit which would be a pain since it's on a hill. I'm not sure if something like this is safe enough but wanted to get something in place as soon as I could.