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Real Estate #2 looking.

5 months ago

Because of some circumstances, one of my siblings and I are looking at investment properties, forming an LLC and possibly buying a studio or Jr. 1BR /alcove 1BR unit that must be in an elevator + doorman building.

Because of the target rent on the unit, this places us in a limited number of midcentury, "luxury" apartment buildings in the two most expensive neighborhoods in the city. (In the neighborhoods we live in you can get more space for the money but no doorman or no elevator, and the newer construction is too expensive for the rental price point.

Anyway this means looking at the smallest, least expensive units in expensive buildings. In this category there are 300sq-600sq units in the same building as a lot of 1-2 bedroom and some very large units--there are full-floor units in some of these buildings.

Two interesting things, most of the small units are rented to Ivy League grad students, and you can do a deep dive and find a lot of comments about how terrible the building (any of the buildings are), because they are small, they do not have washers and dryers in the units, the pool costs extra, the doorpersons are rude, and "[their] dorms were nicer in college." Meanwhile many full adult career people love the buildings and apparently have no problem using a building laundry room.

Second: We have repeatedly been in the situation where we want to look at multiple units in the same building, we make the appointment for the showing time, the tenant is notified, says okay and when we get there they either do not answer the call from the front desk or they say "I changed my mind, they can't come in." Today we were at 50% and the two we looked at were empty, so we were at 100% at not being able to look because the tenant changed their mind. And one of the units it happened more than once. One of the units has been on the market for almost 600 days, probably because no one has ever been allowed in to see it.

This is completely new behavior, it never even would have occurred to me to not let a potential buyer look at a place I rented but did not own, because it is generally in the lease that you agree to this if you are on a month to month lease basis.

Comments (10)

  • 5 months ago

    Hmmm, wonder if the tenants are in breach of contract for not allowing potential renters/buyers in. I haven’t rented in eons, but my recollection is that every lease I signed had a clause allowing the landlord to show the apartment. I think there were conditions, for instance, it could be shown withing 3 months of the end of the lease.

  • 5 months ago

    Technically they are probably in breach of contract, but what are you going to do. Here you have to wait until there is at least 3 months of non-payment of rent before you can even initiate any legal recourse , so it could be 6 months to a year before you could get a difficult tenant out of your property. So a breach like this is completely meaningless if you have a certain type of tenant--they can make your life very difficult if they want.

    (And Manhattan is even worse. I know of a story where a roomate of the owner of the property got a protection order against the owner for attempting to evict him, who was subsequently not allowed in her own condo, and lost the property as a result). Many thing are predicated upon both parties being reasonable people. Which it seems there may be diminishing numbers of.

    We are buying a property for a particular reason, not because we are necessarily looking forward to being landlords in general.

  • 5 months ago

    It seems to me the laws to protect the tenants went way to the left of center.

    I'm not saying there wasn't a need, I'm saying common sense didn't prevail.

  • 5 months ago

    My condolences. I would not want to be a landlord and have to rent to bratty Penn students who will show no respect for your unit or property. Sounds awful.


    How can your realtor guide you better so as to avoid these situations? Their commission depends on finding places to show you. Seems they would have figured something out so as to have units to show.

  • 5 months ago
    last modified: 5 months ago

    Sadly, tenants have more rights than landlords. Eviction is a slow process.

    Not being able to see a unit, especially after multiple appointments, is frustrating.

  • 5 months ago

    We won't be renting this to random people. We are buying a rental property for a specific purpose and will consider selling it when it is no longer needed. However most grad students are probably pretty reliable tenants overall, particularly the ones who can rent in a doorman building. Some of them are a little spoiled maybe, but they are not necessarily irresponsible tenants.

  • 5 months ago

    Meanwhile many full adult career people love the buildings and apparently have no problem using a building laundry room.


    I rented in more than one luxury Manhattan building and did not have in-unit laundry. But I did not do my own laundry, my cleaning person did. That is why people may not care.


    Not only is it hard in some states to evict renters, it can be very hard to foreclose. The ease of doing so varies by state, part of the reason that mortgage rates are higher in some states than others. We usually are not involved in individual mortgage loans, but in one case we had one in our portfolio and it was a running joke how the homeowner, a physician no less, abused the system (NY state) to avoid paying for years and years. It was at least 5 years where he did not pay.

  • 5 months ago

    Does the name of the building start with a D?

  • 5 months ago

    My experience, the tenant is given 24 hours notice, per their contract, that the property is being shown, then the PM uses their key to let themselves in. There was ONE property we were interested in, a highly sought after neighborhood with very few homes for sale. The tenant was "afraid" of seeing other people, he was a shut-in who received services. It was listed as "sight-unseen, a no admittance listing. They mentioned there was a sewer problem, didn't say what it was or what was the issue...it needed a new roof...and several other disfunctional things...it had immediate full price offers and sold.