I just saw the below photo that you posted on someone else's thread right before seeing this post.

In this photo ^^^ the color of the stiles/rails looks like a pretty good stain match - unless you purchased high end cabinets. I did notice a bit of a slight curve/sweep in the grain when I saw the photo above, but it looks much more pronounced (as does the grain itself) in the photos you've just posted.

What grade of rift sawn oak veneer was specified in your contract - select/standard/builder?

In the photos you've posted above, the panels have more pronounced graining than I would want - if a darker stain was used, it would blend better. Was your vanity from the same business? If yes, pls post a photo.

I assume that you have a sample door showing the veneer + how it would look when finished? Please post a photo of your sample.

No idea what/how, but I couldn't love with it. Is that a counter top I see in this?

and if so.........why is it there at all, when you are clearly unhappy with cabinetry?

This does not look like select grade white oak.

That ^^ is just one reason I prefer a veneer., and more controlled result

. "Key Reasons for Visual Variation

• Grain Orientation (Reflectivity): When you assemble a Shaker-style door, the vertical stiles and horizontal rails have grain running in different directions. Wood cells are like microscopic tubes; when light hits them from different angles, one piece may appear darker or lighter than the piece right next to it, even if they were cut from the same board.
• Ray Flecking: Rift-sawn white oak is prized for its straight grain, but it naturally contains medullary rays (nutritional structures). While the rift cut minimizes these, some "flecking" or "flakes" may still appear, often more prominently on one component than another depending on the exact angle of the cut.
• Heartwood vs. Sapwood: Natural white oak has distinct color zones. Heartwood (inner tree) is typically darker and more brown, while sapwood (outer tree) is lighter and creamier. In solid wood cabinetry, a stile might be cut from a lighter sapwood area while the face panel comes from darker heartwood.
• Manufacturing Methods (Solid vs. Veneer):
  • Solid Wood: Stiles and rails are almost always solid wood for structural stability.
  • Face Panels: These are often made of veneered plywood or MDF to prevent warping. Veneers are sliced very thin from a single log (a "flitch"), which allows for much tighter grain matching that solid wood stiles and rails cannot always replicate.
• Stain Absorption: The density and "openness" of the grain can vary from piece to piece. Even with the same stain, a more porous rail might soak up more pigment and appear darker than the adjacent stile or face panel. "

The face fronts are plywood the frames aren't so they take stain differently. No this is not how I would expect oak grain to look like but the rift sawn means the side grain., vs front . It appears they glued up your face fronts to get a repeating pattern. Some might have had the drawer grain run horizontal....

I'm confused..........

You are basically done, tops and appliances installed and you are asking..... now?

A bit late to fix now. I do not understand you had a cabinet you liked and wanted the same so why did you not show them that cabinet for reference? I would have sent those back before install not I don't know you must have signed off when they were delivered IMO this type of cabinet finish is best on slab doors too like this so lots of issues long before they were made even just the exact same as the bathroom would have worked . I am sorry but it looks like redo of the doors and probably on your dime

PC - your bathroom vanity looks beautiful. It has a very slight curve to the grain - but it looks like a nice vanity.

I want to make sure that I understand everything -

1. They made the vanity that's in the photo you added in your comment, correct? Was that vanity delivered prior to your kitchen or at the same time? Was the same sample approved for it?

2. Someone else made the vanity for your primary bathroom - is that that what you showed them when you discussed your expectations for your kitchen? Did you not yet have the vanity that's in the photo? If they made the one in the photo, it seems like that should have been used to describe your expectations. This is why I'm confused.

3. With respect to the new photo you've added showing another section of your cabinets (I believe it's your sink cabinet) - I would not be happy with that veneer either.

4. The graining in the photo of the side of the bar looks much better. It does really look yellow in the photo - but I assume that has something to do with the lighting + your camera = it's not the actual color.

5. The sample door - it has a little bit of mineral streaking (depends upon the grade of white oak whether this is acceptable) + some random cathedral look graining = odd for rift sawn oak. Did you discuss any issues you had with the sample door - or did you approve it?

6. Does your contract provide that the grade of the white oak that would be used to make your cabinets/doors/drawer fronts? Did your contract reference the sample door?

I don't understand how/why they used a different grade of veneer for the panels on your kitchen doors/drawer fronts vs. the bathroom vanity. It looks like they used a lower grade white oak veneer for the kitchen panels.

Were you there when the doors/drawer fronts were being installed? Have you discussed the issues with your kitchen doors/drawer fronts with the supplier? If yes, what response did you receive?

Please let me know if anything I've set forth above is incorrect - I am not sure that I completely understood your comment.

Also, please post a photo of what you showed them as the example of what you wanted/expected for your kitchen.

I didn’t sign off on anything. They do everything in stages. all the faces of the drawers and doors and my guest bathroom vanity doors that they made were put on last. as soon as I saw them put up a set of two cabinet doors, immediately noticed the issue and they knew I wasn’t happy but insisted on putting them all up so I can see the finished product thinking that it would make a difference. I was happy with the graining of the wood they used for the cabinet boxes and for all the molding and the bar area and side panels for upper cabinetry which was all completed first. That all looks like rift sawn white oak, the doors and drawers which were put in last do not. I showed them a few pictures of what I expected before they started making anything and also showed them my primary bathroom vanity (made by someone else) so there should have been no confusion as to what my expectations are. My intention with posting this is to ask the community whether or not my expectations are valid and that I’m not asking for something out of the ordinary because, of course, the contractors have different excuses as to why the graining looks the way it does and they assure me this is rift sawn white oak veneer with a white oak shaker style and tell me they have no control of how the graining ends up looking from the batches they get from the manufacturer. I’m still in disbelief. My primary vanity and everything I see online looks nothing like this so im very confused how they keep saying it’s rift sawn white oak.

The cabinet boxes are nice according to OP - that's why the countertop and appliances were installed - the doors/drawer fronts were installed later. The only issue is with the door/drawer fronts - not the cabinets boxes or other pieces (like side panel for bar).

Ask what grade of rift sawn white oak was used for the vanity and for the kitchen.

I wouldn't be happy with your kitchen doors/drawer fronts. I would expect them to look like the vanity - or at least like the door sample. While rift sawn white oak will have variances - it shouldn't be Iike the difference between your vanity doors and your kitchen doors/drawer fronts. If they received a crappy stock of rift sawn white oak veneer, they should have ordered a new batch (and sent the unsatisfactory batch back - or used it for a different project where a darker stain was specified).

It probably is rift sawn white oak - but it's most likely a low grade = not what is typically spec'd for custom cabinets.

Do NOT let them push you around or act like you you're being picky - because you're not. The doors/drawer fronts are not acceptable (unless you ordered inexpensive cabinets with low grade rift sawn white oak veneer).

Again, please post your other vanity when you are able to do so.

Dani_mo8 hi thanks for your response. They actually showed up the first time with the vanity doors prior to the kitchen doors and drawers and I was not happy with them because there were 8 knots in them. Second time they brought two new doors to install and the graining was thick, dark and pronounced and it was curving to the left at the top of both doors and so the third time they redid the doors, they brought them with all the kitchen doors and drawers and installed them on the same day. Yes I agree the vanity looks beautiful and that is what I expect rift sawn white oak to look like. So initially we had these problems with the vanity and I told them weeks ago that my kitchen doors better not look like this and again I sent a picture of my primary vanity and pictures online of what my expectations are. At this point (a couple of week ago) they said, well your doors are completed and we noticed 50% of them are wavy/curving so we have to redo them. So what you are seeing in the kitchen is actually the second attempt at making the doors. There is no world where they should be confused as to what I expected. I went over this with them initially, I went over this multiple times when we had the vanity issues, they know this, I sent emails and texts. They knew beforehand, they knew during production, and they knew I wasn’t happy as soon as they put up two doors in the kitchen. Sorry and just to be clear that picture of the sample was not the sample that they showed me for the actual doors it was to show me the stain, the sample they made me I don’t have a picture of but I assure you it looked like rift sawn white oak and not this thick pronounced wavy graining that is in the kitchen currently.

If you were not happy with the cabinets, then why did you allow them to be installed? And then install the appliances and counter top? I would think that once you allowed them to be installed that would be a tacit acceptance, and they certainly aren't going to do anything now. Hate to say it but you might want to paint them.

You clearly have not read my previous posts Diana.

Have them remove the doors and drawer fronts as they did for the bath vanity. They took three tries to get that right. Looks like you have two more to go on the kitchen. Best wishes.

Also - it looks like rift sawn white oak plywood was used (already has a rift sawn white oak veneer on it) vs. using rift sawn white oak veneer over a piece of plywood. That's why the stripes are so obvious - they are repeating pieces of the same piece of wood glued next to each other.

If you took the door/drawer front that @Patricia Colwell Consulting posted above - and repeated the portion I've marked in red across the door (or wider drawers) - you'd start to have a pattern like you have = unappealing.

That's what happens when slices of the same piece of wood are used next to each other vs. a piece of veneer that has been made by combining slices of different pieces of rift sawn white oak.

I just spoke to my BIL who has a lot of knowledge re: wood and carpentry. He said that white oak has quite a bit of variation between the hard and soft wood = rift sawn white oak is inherently varied. A custom shop will pick through and choose the correct boards/slips of veneer - but it will still vary in some areas.

The problem is that yours has a pattern to it vs. just being varied. Toning and bleaching it will help make the veneer more consistent in coloring. If the cabinets are a lesser grade, it is normal to expect to see some form of "striping" in a kitchen. It depends on what you paid for - custom cabinets or inexpensive cabinets. If custom, it should not look like this.

Thanks Dani, I appreciate you actually reading my posts and all the info shared!

Ugh so frustrating for you :( but sounds like there is good path forward - I don’t mean to be negative but are these the right guys to get it done for you?

Cabinet guys are under major pressure to match the flooring European Oak that is the top product right now. More closed grain and less yellow than domestic. Huge amounts of engineered flooring product are produced in SE Asia. All use a different type of oak, there are over 300 species, than NAmerican quercus alba white oak. The cabinet guys don't have quercus robur or some others to work with. Everyone is trying to use rift to get close. IKEA is using Euro Oak for Vendamn because that door/drawer is made in Hungary.

This is the website example of rift cut white oak from Conestoga Wood Specialties, the largest producer of door and drawer fronts in the US.

This is the rift sawn white oak graining on my primary vanity made by someone else. Vertical tight lines, subtle graining. I don’t expect perfection but I did expect something similar to this. I used this vanity to show them what my expectation is and they saw this in person, sent a phone in email and in text. The graining on the bar, upper cabinet panels and molding look like this but totally different graining on doors or drawer faces.

Sent a photo* not phone

All I will say at this point is there is a lot to be said for either choice in a kitchen painted or wood. But painted is a hell of a lot easier.

I am to the point in this raging trend of white oak, in anything and everything from case goods to flooring to custom cabinetry.......?

In this USA, unless a manufactured cabinet front, with a sample from that source, with a "strike" sample? Not touching this locally for anyone.

This came out as we expected.....not as pale as everyone wants. White oak, amazing pro woodworker. Thank god, only a gigantic island involved. : )

In general · More Info

In general · More Info

Veneers below, white oak

Pioneer Cabinets, Pa.locale

.....Island, hood white oak, veneer and also repeated in bath.

Delivery EXACTLY as our sample strikes.

Wrapped views · More Info

Wrapped views · More Info

I may be dead before it happens but there will come the day when we all can say....

"remember all those pale oak kitchen and baths?!" ......just sayin...