6a *where*? It matters. Over the years, I've learned that the further west you go, the easier a given cold temperature is on roses. So between New York and Colorado you pick up about an entire zone, and there are noticable differences between eastern and western New York.

I grew 'Abraham Darby' many years ago in a Zone 5a location and it fared surprisingly well. Canes died to the snow line, but otherwise it breezed through those cold Ontario winters.

Thank you both! I'm by Great Barrington but near the Connecticut corner, why I wasn't sure what 6A even means here.

Paul, I grew Oshun, Gold Buddha, and Treasure Trail in SF and everyone loved them. They are beautiful plants. Really liked the uniqueness in Treasure Trail. Thanks for your tips on Abe.

It can matter whether they are grafted or own root in my experience. I have both and they have both survived at least 2 winters here. Bathsheba is grafted and bigger though it's still becoming mature enough to climb. Abraham Darby can be a huge bush grafted but own root for me it has been knee high. Diane calls hers "twig Darby" and that's not too far off the truth. Hers has never recovered to be a robust bush but I'm hoping mine eventually does. I had a friend in town who had a huge easy-chair sized Abe that was covered in blooms most of the summer.

In general they should both be fine in zone 6a once established, but try grafted at least for Bathsheba. Good luck finding Abe grafted now that David Austin doesn't sell it anymore and won't license anyone else to sell it grafted. There are some occasional sources of Abe own root.

Cynthia

Personally, I think being 6A means that the USDA has lost its mind. DH works in northwestern Columbia Co, which is the New York county that borders southwestern Massachusetts, and usually sees temperatures below -10F at least once on his way to work. I think the most accurate zone map is still the first one, which was based on 30 years of data. It has a long, thin tongue of zone 6 going up the Hudson River, which I believe in, but zone 5 away from that. It may have some zone 4 in the Berkshires.

Own-root Austins have been a bust for me. I think I may have finally lost twig Darby, but it has taken 30 years. I think once it had 3 flowers in a season. Marginal, own-root roses are a disaster here, since they don't have the vigor to replace the winterkill. For a rose to do OK here, it has to either be able to grow, bloom, and harden off wood quickly, or look -20F straight in the face and not blink.

BClark, I grow an own root Abe Darby from a respected seller and have reviled this rose with awful names since then. I was calling him Twig Darby from the start when I began to grow that little wimp in 2017. He's grown quite a lot since and has a lovely growth habit, but still sports weak arms that can't support his blooms. And he doesn't bloom a lot. Because of the Twig, I have a terrible impression of own root roses. Nevertheless, The Twig is quite hardy here. This entire area used to be zone 6a until about 2010. Now we are zone 7a, so I suppose what I say about Abe's hardiness is not relevant to this discussion. But no matter how I revile Abe with names, I'll say he's been perfectly hardy right down to his tips. Of course, all my other roses are just as hardy. I haven't had a bit of cane loss from the cold on a rose since our one bad winter of 2016-7 when two of my roses took a big cold hit and were down to one short cane. One of those was Jude the Obscure and he's now 10 feet tall. And I'm too old and lazy to prune him way back. Anyway, I'd try Abe if I were you, but get him grafted. Diane

Abe Darby

Back in 2021, I got 2 own root Abraham Darby from Noseometer. His Abe. were glorious in his sandy soil with many canes. But my Abe. are lanky TWIGS in my heavy clay. My Abes are lanky & only 3 canes that were stingy in blooms.

My own root Evelyn gives 10 times more blooms than my own root Abe. My shrub Evelyn (1993 form) never have blackspots, but my Abes struggles with blackspots in my high rain climate. Below is short shrub Evelyn in David Austin 1993 book of "Old Roses and English Roses" described Evelyn as 3' x 3' with more flowers than growth, plus Evelyn as VERY SHALLOW CUP bloom:

Below is Abraham Darby as described in 1993 David Austin book of "Old Roses and English Roses". Compare to Evelyn, Abe. has less petals and with bigger & rounder and darker green leaves, and taller than Evelyn as described in 2011 Catalog.

Three other cold-zoners in Facebook and HMF mentioned that own root Abe. is wimpy & weak grower, and I agree. During Abe's first years, rabbits constantly ate it down to 4 inch in spring, so I had to cage Abe. with chicken wire, see below:

I got curious as to why rabbits never eat my Evelyn, nor the small Evelyn rooting I gave to my neighbor .. so I tasted the leaves of Evelyn versus Abe. Evelyn's leaves are paler & smaller and tastes bitter, but Abe. leaves taste sweet and succulent like collard greens.

Blooms of Abe. can look similar to Evelyn, but Abe is deeper cup & less petals as stated in 2011 David Astin catalog. Abe. has 70 petals compared to 100 petals in Evelyn.

Evelyn lasts 5 days in the vase, versus only 3 days for Abe, and Abe's bloom stinks up to rotten melon and sharp citrus, so I rarely pick Abe. for the vase. Below is a cluster from my Abe., note less petals at 70:

My 1993 form Evelyn is very winter hardy (bought in 2012), same as Abe (grown since 2021). Abe survived my zone 5 winter with MUCH LESS canes than Evelyn ... only 3 canes on Abe, compared to a dozen green canes on Evelyn (1993 shrub form). Below left branch is from my Evelyn, and right branch is from Abe. Abe. gives more cluster blooming at the end of one TALL cane, versus Evelyn tends to have one bloom per cane, and Evelyn's many weaker canes and spread out horizontally. Abe. is more upright and vertical in growth than Evelyn:

The 1993 form of Evelyn (short shrub & 100 petals) is MORE winter hardy than Abe. in my zone 5. The 100 petals & open stamens Evelyn like my SHORT shrub Evelyn is featured in below 2011 catalog, stating that Evelyn is 4 x 3 feet, which is shorter than my Abe.

In 2016, David Austin catalog featured the CLIMBER, BUTTON EYE Evelyn which is LESS WINTER hardy than the 2011 short shrub & open stamens & 100 petals Evelyn featured in 1993 book. The CLIMBER & button eye Evelyn is stated as hardy to zone 6 to 9, rather than zone 5 to 10 like other Austins, see below 2016 catalog:

David Austin 2011 catalog stated that Abraham Darby is cup-shaped flowers, and hardy in growth, height at 5' x 5' or 8 feet as a climber. My Abe. is taller than my Evelyn, and Abe. does NOT like to be brutally pruned short down to 1 foot like my shrub Evelyn. But 1993-form Evelyn survived my zone 5 winter with a dozen green canes, versus only 3 green canes on lanky Abe:

wow !! Treasure Trail is button hole and deep color .. gorgeous ... love to have such rose.

Here in Cincinnati Bathsheba is extremely hardy. Also good for black spot And blooms a lot.