Kitchen sight line

This should give you an idea of what you will see out the kitchen window.

The drive is 50' long and you will see less than half.

Sight line looks good. If we center it, should have a 80' drive...240' wide lot. Too long?

>>> BASEMENT: can we not excavate the dining area? Just do a plain and simple rectangle? Cheaper I'd guess.

Not a huge cost savings but some. No reason to if you don't need the space.

>>> ROOF: we're building in a new development (in our small town) and there is no metal. Not sure if it's even allowed.

I'd check on this before you get too far on the exterior. One key to keeping the installed cost of a metal roof down is a simple roof plan. Start adding hips and valleys and the installation cost goes up. Every angle needs to be cut, and the additional trim adds up.

>>> KITCHEN: do you think I'll have enough view out my window? It's approx. eight feet from the long garage wall. Hope to be able to see my kids in the drive. Not sure I can. Do you all like the kitchen layout? Do you see it workable? I like the new window size. Gives me more cabinet space. Wondering also about the safety concern with four young kids and an island cooktop.

A kitchen should be tailored to the person using it the most. Think about how you process food, the steps you go through to cook a meal. Build the kitchen around how it's used.

Your plan -- the one at the top of the page looks good -- nice compact work triangle. I have some thoughts. The sink and cooktop are back to back. If it's a 1 cook kitchen, then fine, otherwise, they may work better if offset. The other is the placement of the microwave. Thinking it is on the 5' counter off by itself. It's a long way from the refrigerator.

I take food from the refrigerator, get a bowl or plate, food on plate and into microwave. I want the microwave, a bit of counter, plates and the refrigerator close together.

Not many handy upper cabinets.

More tomorrow ...

Corner pantry - I've had one and it is amazing how much more it can store than regular cabinets! The new plan has a very long distance from the stove to the fridge.

catlady- I agree. I dislike the distance between the two. Also love the space in a corner pantry. I've seen some and they're great! If it's do-able...

Do you all think the island is proportionate to the rest of the kitchen? I'm contemplating the kitchen/dining along the back of the house (kitchen by the garage side, laundry in between) and living room at the front.

Consider the living and dining rooms are just empty spaces that may be moved around at will. Design the best kitchen first, then try fitting the other rooms around it.

Everyone wants these big open kitchens that look so good, but may not function so well.

How about moving the garage to the west side of the house, the kitchen against the 2 bathrooms, and the laundry between the entry and bedroom.

This would get all the plumbing close together, as well as the private spaces. You would gain an open living area with windows on 3 sides.

You need to seek the services of an architect and stop spinning your wheels here.

I have to agree with Sophie........

Why not retain the services of an Architect or designer to help you with the design?

I was going to suggest the same thing. For the amount of money spent on building a house, the services of an architect is well worth it in my opinion.

I came to this site for advice and help from those that have been there, done that. I think it's interesting (and discouraging) three of you that just chimed in, haven't offered one other piece of advice. Why do you choose to offer advice now? Thanks.

I'm a SAHM, so every dollar counts. If I can save 3-5% minimum on an architect, I'm going to try.

I do appreciate the tips and help offered by the others thus far. It gives me ideas on what to do/not to do. What this site is for. Or so I thought.

I'm not a fan of the open floor plan I have lived in the same family room, office, kitchen, and dinning room which is really a nook but it's your house. I'd add a closet in the office. Swap the foyer closet and bed room around so when you com up stairs it's across the hall and nor jamming up with your entry door. I'd make the dinning room at least 12x14 and build a cased opening between the kitchen and dinning area. You realize your TV is going to be in that same spot the life of the house I mean that's your tv wall. Im a fan of the one sink in the master but I'd reconfigure it and put the toilet in a closet. You need a min 3' wide and 2'-0 door is common. If your designing this before you have a lot your waisting your time because a good home is designed for the lot which is I wonder in your kitchen window and dinning room is facing something nice. You might need a closet or duct area to bring your return air up from basement to attic as I suspect that's where your handler will be. (Attic) ( in Florida it's in a closet or attic and you need a chase...where you are maybe you don't have air.
Anyway you asked.

You could take 2 feet out of your laundry on that office wall and put a closet for you office and 1/2 it for your laundry. You have plenty of room in there.

We have a corner lot (2.5 lots)- it's 230 wide x 140' deep. The house will face south, to an open field. It's on the edge of town.

I've had the "closed off" plan and dislike it because we have young kids...I like to see what they're doing while I'm cooking, etc. I always feel like I'm separated from the rest of the family when I'm making dinner.

I agree the dining needs to be larger. We were doing the cased opening between the kitchen/living, but it looked like it made the dining too small, plus I like the idea of the kitchen/dining being one room together. I appreciate your comments, Brian.

Where's your water heater going? What about your HVAC? Ducting? Do you understand passive solar and how that affects your needs for glazing, insulation, and site orientation? Do you understand building codes for clearances in high accident zones like kitchens and baths? Do you understand engineering for large open spans and the consequences to your budget because of using different dimensions?

A house is SO much MORE than just a''floorplan''. SO MUCH MORE! You have to understand all of those interconnected systems to design a house that works. Without that knowledge, you have a series of inefficient poorly proportioned boxes connected to each other and a big top hat of a much too prominent roof to attempt to cover it.

Know your limitations. Seek the services of an architect. It is the best money that you can spend. By far. It will end up SAVING you money to design someting smart that works.

And if your going to put a pocket door on your laundry room you may as well shoot through the casing into the door you'll never close it.
I'd have it swing right into the closet I mentioned.
You need a 2-8 for laundry min and 2-8 for guest bath and master bedroom. 3' drywall to drywall on your stairs but I'd go 3'4" min. The halls I'd do 3'4 or wider looks like you have 3'.
Anyway I'll leave you be. Good luck. Oh your pantry you'll need a 2'0 door min. So that will be 35" kitchen side of angle. 26" off wall.

Anyway I noticed you changed up your drawing the one with your post is the one I was looking at with a foyer. I think you need a foyer...it's proper if not it's like an apartment
Good luck

Brian- I appreciate your tips. Feel free to throw more my way if you have time. Thanks! :)

I was in the building trades for 15 years before we decided to build. I had been in many homes, and picked up a lot of ideas. I searched through plan books for a while. We bought a Florida home plan we liked. We took the plan to a builder, and he sent us to an architect. For $2000, the architect adapted the changes we wanted, and solved some issues. As a space planner, I really worked on making the plan as efficient as possible, but the architect and builder were very instrumental in designing the home we still enjoy 14 years later. It was worth the investment.

I think this site's real value is in helping the user find things you never knew existed, or in getting opinions on variations, or specific issues. I think asking opinions of a nearly final floor plan can improve the results. But starting from scratch here will elicit personal opinions and experiences that mostly have no relation to your particular situation. And this is worth exactly what you paid for it.

...yeah when you get close anyway you have to have it drawn and engineered by at least a drafter that has an engineer he uses. An architect is the way to go if you have the money. It looks like your going for a ranch and trusses can well cover what you have I mean unless your more than 60 clear span (like a 65' great room, you don't have to start worrying. Maybe it's different with snow loads I don't know but you could pick up load at your stairway down through your hall.

I think that this site is great for getting advice as you've pointed out but I don't think it can replace the services or opinion of a professional. You can arrange for a flat fee with architects that take you through the design stage. I understand the need to save as much as possible but I think you'd save money in "mistakes" if that makes sense?

As for your need for an "open" space - I agree, it's nice to have an open plan living space when with young children. However it is nice to have an "away" space - possibly in the basement? Just a thought...

Wow. Now I'm simply feeling attacked. I understand what most of you are trying to say. I get it: Architects are with the $. I was hoping to get initial design help here...I have someone that will be doing our final draft. I know that a house is so much more than what's on a piece of graph paper.

Can I kindly ask those that don't care to offer any input on my actual floor plan to please refrain from commenting any further. I was getting wonderful help prior to this. Thanks.

This post has gotten quite long and I cannot read every comment so I hope I am not saying what has already been pointed out.

The laundry room looks quite big compared to the bathroom near your mud room. Perhaps you have a large laundry requirement but a laundry room can easily be accommodated in a 5x8 room.

Consider a pocket door for your walk-in closet. Are you using bypass doors for your narrow closet. Drawing shows standard passage doors.

Just because some advice above is not what you may want to hear shouldn't be taken as a negative as ALL of the comments above are aimed at getting you the best end result. My comments above were written in that spirit.

Designing a house is a BIG responsibility. I always envision a scene where a client comes to me with several large bags of $100 bills, places them all on the table in front of us and says "Here. I'm trusting you to tell me the best way to spend this". If the task is thought of in that context, it's down right scary!

And PPF's done an absolutely fantastic job of trying to pull your plan together. I've already posted one "pen to paper" complete plan here this month https://www.houzz.com/discussions/need-help-on-floor-plan-details-for-new-build-private-bathroom-dsvw-vd~941477
(long post near the end with the black and white 1st and 2nd floor plans) and will see if I can fit in another as I'm currently swamped but it will likely be next week at the earliest. And if there's interest on your part, read what Bebeangel posted in response to my suggestions to their "perfect" plan. Good design is not obvious, it's subtle and you need to get there too.

But, exciting times in your household! New adventures are always fun!

Construction Guaranteed: I'd like to use as many pocket doors as possible. Love the idea of them being out of the way. The laundry is larger...would be an overflow pantry as well, house the deep freeze. We have four young kids, so lots of laundry and food/supplies!

Where are you with kitchen placement?

Here is one showing it against the bathroom wall. Gives you lots of storage, cooktop off the island, but no big window.

Yeah, I think I like where it was before...just have to get the arrangement of it in that location and we're good to go! I am okay with going with a normal pantry (cabinet size, not corner) along the sink/exterior wall and have the walk through by it (like my most recent drawing above). Not sure if we'll do the 1/2 bath, or if we could move it so the laundry door could line up with the kitchen walk though. Thanks, ppf!

I like this kitchen layout...with a walkway though.

What do you like about it? Nice kitchen, but you have 1 wall -- two of you count the short one on the south side. This kitchen has 2, one for the sink, one for the cooktop.

Where would your eating area be?

Kitchen moved east, dining between kitchen and living.

I definitely like that kitchen arrangement better...lots of upper cabinet space. Things where I envisioned them. Will the table feel like it's in the way?

This room layout is popular, and you have a hallway running the length of the house beside these spaces. The table will be between the kitchen and living, but I do not see it as in the way. The house becomes a rectangle -- simpler to build and roof, the kitchen is closer to the drive so your view is better.

I think the kitchen here is too big. Too far from the refrigerator to the cooktop.

Here is an idea I tried on your original layout -- placing a half wall around two sides of the cooktop on the island.

Having a rectangle will be easier to build and more efficient on heating. With the house facing south, a north facing dining area with 3 exterior window walls can get chilly. But I'm concerned about space in the new living/dining room. If your budget can handle an extra 4 to 6 feet (or more) in the long dimension of the house, this new great room would feel less cramped.

Actually, it might be less expensive to build than the original "bumped out" dining area. You would be eliminating several windows. And you could gain some good storage space: extend your wic into the area taken by the left bottom bedroom's closet. Put the 2 bedroom closets back to back, cutting down on noise transferring between those rooms. And since those closets don't need the entire wall, put in a 4+ foot wide linen closet with its back against the 2 closets and facing the hall.

Here is the full plan showing kitchen and dining in alternate locations.

2510 sq ft!

The dining is larger than it needs to be at 232 sq ft (a bit over 12 x 18).

Thoughts?

Your still going to need a closet in the office. Where are you going to put boxes of paper and junk. Even if I did built ins I'd do a closet. I'd also consider a door through to the laundry you could knock out a lot of work then.

Plus bringing groceries in is a weird walk pattern...your right there at the garage tweak it so when you walk in you can go in the kitchen. That's a big kitchen I think I can't zoom in and the back is looking like you just took the wheels off her. For 3300 sq ft this house sucks.

What is your budget and what area are you in. What price for sq.ft. Are homes being built for (cost) in your area. Post all the views for your lot and your survey. I might draw you a plan I see all this when I come back and draw you an elevation let me know your sqft. you feel comfortable at and what style you really like in a home.

Have you checked what the construction cost per square foot is in your area? Also, have you checked with the local building department to find out how big a house you can build? There may be limits on gross floor area.

I was quoted roughly $114/ft for an average to go by. In the Midwest. Is the 3,300 including the garage? That's much too large. Looking under 2,000 (closer to 1,800 main level) without garage.

We're doing some of the work ourselves, looking to be under $225k, with $20k allotted for the basement. Finishing two beds, a bath, family room down there.

Oops! 2510 without the garage.

The living and dining together are about 575, and that does not include the hall running across the house.

So to get below 2000, you need to remove space equivalent to the living and dining.

And I'm referring the the plan with the alternate kitchen location.

Your original plan -- at least my version, is 2172, so some cutting needed there too.

Another thing get 4 partition block and block out your proposed building corners and if there is fall I need to know what it is and where you'll be pulling in, I need to know what side your power is coming in from the road, if you'll have septic, what side your water is on and if you'll have a well. Budget is the main thing you can have nice stuff with a big or small budget but you try to over build you'll be in marriage counseling or the loony bin before your even close. This is going to put a huge strain on your lives. You have to stay in budget and realize once you get moved in a lot of it never mattered anyway. You can't fall for the matchy bathroom fixture trim game on a budget or the lighting game. You have to have a list of priorities and be willing do back them out as problems arise which they will. There is not biting the bullet on a budget. What's your impact fees where you live and the power underground. Water hook up fees could be a few grand where your at just to run 60' to the road. Power could be several thousand and you may need to place a thousand dollar deposit once you do get service. You may need density test, compaction text, dumpster fees, pro to let fees. I've seen people hire really good subs and pull it off. I don't know what you do for a living but so far you've missed some major things. Your gonna have to have a builder help you at least as a consultant...you just do. I mean who's got the dryer vent in the bid? The plumber says the hvac has it but hvac says the plumber always does it. Anyway the plumber says he'll do it for N extra 500 dollars. Who builds your a/c pad the framers or the hvac contractor? Who drys in the walls or the roof? You have a framing bid but it didn't include soffit and fascia or windows. Your house went from like 2400 sqft to 3300 and your kitchen is where your going to drop ALOT of money and flooring. If you haven't already done it you need to ask some people that have built for their budget. You'll need it anyway if your getting a loan. You'll need a spec sheet also listing your insulation Rvaules, window types, weight felt, roofing, drywall thickness, textures by room ect. Ect. And stick to it. The more you have figured out the more you can manage the job without shopping. Everyday on a builders loan your at 100 bucks after framing plus your portolet ringing up per month and dumpster fee which they may charge if your sitting idol. Anyway good luck. Just some stuff to think about.

Don't forget porches. Not usually part of square footage. Porches and garages will bring up your footage.

Is the $114 you were quoted for everything? Does it include permit fees, engineering, services (electricity, gas, water, sewer)? There is the potential for tens of thousands in costs before you even break ground (especially where connecting services are involved). If you haven't done so already, I would strongly encourage you to speak with your local building department to find out what costs you'll be faced with. They could take quite a chunk out of your total budget and you should plan accordingly. Just remember that all the advise you get here is worth what you paid for it. Good luck.

I tell my clients that looking at a building project strictly from a cost/SF standpoint is like buying a car by the pound. Big difference between a Honda and a Lexus!

But all areas should be factored in so I figure basements/garages/porches/unconditioned space etc. at half area. Also all SF measurements INCLUDE the exterior walls.

And, if cost is the over riding concern, which it appears to be here, a square two story house is the cheapest build, not a long, linear one story house with a lot of exterior wall, foundation and roof. A square two story house is also easier on the heating/cooling bill! But don't get me wrong however, there are thousands of very nice and well designed square two story houses. This house has a very high ratio of enclosed SF/exterior wall SF.

Land (in town, corner, 2.5 lots) $24,000
Water meter hookup $1,500
Sewer hookup $100
Application fee for building permit $1.00 per $1,000 of estimated value: $250 est.
Electric hookup $104 (overhead- (we) electrician set temp pole, no inspection required) or $150 (optional construction meter- underground or overhead- they do all electrical work)
Gas hookup $5+ tax to set meter (yes, I double checked- five bucks!)
TOTAL: $26,000

House @ $114/sq ft (1800 sq ft): $205,000 (this est. includes 2-car garage, full basement, complete build- no permits or hookups)
Finish Basement: $20,000 (two beds, 1 bath, family room).
TOTAL $225,000

TOTAL: $251,000

But we're hoping to get it around $100/ft. We're doing at minimum the electrical and painting ourselves. We have a friend doing the cement (not the basement, everything else: porches, drive) at cost, we're planning to do as much work (trim, tile, wood) that we can with time (and energy) allowed. I am estimating high and whatever we can take off, great. I've been told you can save roughly 20% being your own GC. We have a family friend that has built three of his own houses, helped with others and is very knowledgable. The buyer of our house is also a licensed contractor and is willing to help. We're small town- know all the subs, know who to hire and not. So 20% off of $251k, we're down to $200k, minus any work we do ourselves.

Have you checked with the building department to determine how big a house you are allowed to build on the given lot size? Do you know about required setbacks, easements or rights of way? No sense planning a sprawling ranch if you're limited in your allowable building footprint. And I agree with architectrunnerguy in his post above. A two-storey house with smaller footprint (but equal square footage to your single storey ranch) will be cheaper to build. It'll also be cheaper to heat and cool (if designed properly).

We're in a two story and dislike the stairs. Our garage is beneath the house, then the main level and the upper level with bedrooms. We plan to have two bedrooms in the basement and have the other two on the main level with us because they're (kids) young still. We don't want to build a huge house- looking around 1,800 sq ft on the main level, with a basement. The minimum build is 1400 sq ft in that development. Our home will be smaller than some of them currently up there.

But! Last night we toured a house that would be right behind where we'd build, that just became available (they contacted us, heard we were looking to build- it's not even on the market). We're waiting to see how the time/price works out- they're selling by owner, so waiting on their price. I'm going to hold off on plans until we know what we're doing; I don't want to waste anyone's time. I appreciate the help thus far. Thanks all...

Did the for sale by owner work out? Noticed you're still flagging new house ideas.

Yes, we're looking to close mid-July. Moving forward!

I'm sorry- misunderstood. No, we're building. They decided to stay in their home. We have the contract on our current home, closing on it mid-July.