Not until next Thursday

http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2420770/help-white-grout-turning-yellow?n=8

Thank you I read that whole post before I posted this question. I was hoping it was an easy solution like cleaning

i tried cleaning my grout with nearly everything available!:(

It is mapei alabaster white unsanded

but it didn't come clean and has worsened

and it's in a line where the seam is whereas if it was something with this grout I would think it would be in patches ?

Well, they knew there was a problem when they dried it out. That should have been investigated thoroughly before wrecking your expensive new tile installation.

At least I'm glad you are getting some answers. What, precisely, is supposed to be the fix?

Contractor came a little while ago. He wants to open up about a foot wide along the two walls. Remove the horizontal 2x4s and replace them with something narrower that's pushed against the exterior wall leaving a gap between the horizontal supports and the vapour barrier so that any moisture in there will not pool on the horizontal support and instead will be collected by the waterproof shower base.

So he wants to collect the infiltrating water by directing it's flow towards the shower drain?

There was very slight moisture. I shouldn't have said "pool" because it was slightly damp there was no water back there. Sorry wrong word

I think that what has been suggested to you is not a good fix. There should be no significant water in that wall, and. since there is, the source needs to be found and eliminated. That remedy sounds like something someone would propose when they don't know what is causing the problem, and want to do something that is fairly easy and sounds logical...but is unacceptable because it's not really a fix. I predict that, if this is done, you will be back here in 3 months asking for solutions because the problem returned. And if it doesn't show up as discoloration of the tiles, you could still end up with rotting wood and mold issues inside the wall.

Don't accept a fix that doesn't get at the root problem.

All this side stepping will cost more in the long run. As you can see thus far with the drying out instead of the addressing of a problem.

Should the home owner be responsible for paying for the fix?

As it is unfolding here .... In this case, absolutely not! They dried the place out and proceeded without addressing the underlying problem. That is completely irresponsible. They incurred the damage themselves.

Kivi just stated what my thoughts were to a T.................

What is the proper waterproofing that should be there? What are the layers? he's been in business for over 30 years and I am inexperienced in this so unless I have information I get the run around.

Head on over to john bridge tile forum.

I did a few days ago I registered but can't post anything until I'm approved and I haven't been approved yet.

You need to have your cement board with a water proof membrane over it before the tile is set, or you can do kerdi board instead that has the membrane already on the board.

I personally would only feel comfortable with ripping the shower out, finding any source of moisture, fix it, then build a proper shower with proper waterproofing.

illtelluwhat, lots of floundering happnin here

Diamond is gypsum at its very core

bubbogubbo-

Looking at your photos, it appears that there are fibers showing in whatever board was used on the walls. That would mean that it is not simply sheetrock, but some kind of reinforced material. However, I wouldn't be comfortable with anything short of something like Hardibacker, which is a fiber-reinforced cement board that is much more waterproof than what yours looks like. (I suspect what you have is water-resistant gypsum-based backer like telluwhat referred to above.) In addition, while I see some visqueen on the backside of your board, I see no evidence that a liquid waterproofing membrane was applied to the inner face of the board.

So here is what I am thinking. First, there doesn't seem to be a way to prevent water from going through the grout and penetrating the backer board, and the amount of water retained is probably more at the horizontal seam of the backing material, which could explain the stain pattern. Second, you also have a water issue in the wall, but if that is a continuous layer of visqueen it would prevent most of the inner wall moisture from reaching the grout, even though it is penetrated by the fasteners. Bottomline to me is that I think there are two -- possibly separate -- problems: the construction of the shower is substandard, and there is a moisture problem in the wall which may be occurring independently of the problems with the way the shower was put together.

It gives me no pleasure to say this, but I'm coming to the conclusion that you will only get this resolved by tearing out the shower walls, investigating and fixing the possible water leak problem, and then having the shower rebuilt to a better standard. Your guy may have been in business for 30 years, but it seems like he is building showers according to 30 year old standards, not current ones.

This is what mfr says about the Diamond Back Tile Backer:

"Diamondback® Tile Backer is used behind tiles in wet areas such as bathrooms, laundries, utility rooms and kitchens. Quarter-inch (6.4mm) Diamondback Tile Backer is suitable for use as an underlayment for countertops and residential and light commercial flooring applications. Diamondback Tile Backer Type X provides the same moisture resistance as Diamondback Tile Backer, plus it has a specially formulated core for use in fire resistance rated designs. These products consist of a high performance, water-resistant gypsum board produced with CertainTeed’s patented, proprietary Embedded Glass Reinforced Gypsum (EGRG®) Technology."

snookums-

I saw that, too, and it wasn't reassuring. I wonder if the fact that they talk about "wet areas such as bathrooms," without specifically using the term "shower," is significant. In any case, this material would not be my first choice, and even less so in the absence of a liquid membrane.

" ... but if that is a continuous layer of visqueen it would prevent most of the inner wall moisture from reaching the grout, even though it is penetrated by the fasteners."

So much for the continuous layer of visqueen ... isn't that a giant hole ripped in it now?

I am seriously dreading this discussion

my contractor says he wants to have a "specialist" come take a look. I don't know who this specialist is but he said he wouldn't tell this specialist anything and he'd let him look at the job and make his own decision.

Maybe I should seek another opinion too. Have someone in. Who would I call? A general contractor? I'm feeling my contractor is trying to shift responsibility or downplay the severity of this situation. And I paid good $ for this bathroom.

jellytoast-

Yes...there is a hole in the visqueen now which is an issue for a future fix. However, my point was simply about what may or may not have been going on while the visqueen was in place and intact.

bubbogubbo-

I think it is prudent for you to get some help here. I know you are not an expert on what constitutes a good job, let along diagnosing a problem and judging the validity of a proposed fix, and there is no shame in that. However, I also understand how this makes you feel vulnerable. I think you do need an independent opinion...perhaps before this "specialist" shows up. I don't think it is necessary for your own person to be present when this is looked at, but you should consult the person both before and after the visit. And post here as well so we can continue to try to help.

As for getting an outside opinion, you might look for one or two tile contractors of good reputation and tell them about this problem, that you aren't confident in your current contractor's ability to remedy this, and would like them to look at it and tell you what they would do if you contracted with them to fix it. This way you are being straightforward and, because, they have the prospect of work from you, they should take it seriously.

Funny how we always seem to have to figure all this stuff out ourselves. When we are paying others to handle it!

The good news is that will be an easy fix. The sad news is that anyone should have been able to figure that out and fix it before the wall was buttoned back up. And the bad news is that I don't think that is the total solution to the tile-grout moisture issue.

Well in my opinion if the shower was wAterproof then I should be able to dump cups of water behind the "waterproof" layer and nothing should come through right? So clearly shower isn't waterproof right? Is that a good assumption.

Well, it is clearly not waterproofed NOW, since the guy tore a hole in the visqueen! Out of curiosity, how does he plan to fix that?

It might have been adequately waterproofed on the backside with intact visqueen in place, but, the bigger issue now is whether it was properly waterproofed on the frontside.

From the manufacturer's description, it sounds like it was - 'used behind tiles in wet areas such as bathrooms'. I would call them for clarification. If it is not to be used behind tiles in a wet area, that is some pretty bad and irresponsible marketing material.

My husband called the contractor to say he located the source of the problem. husband was told to contact his cousin who is a roofer to give us a good price on a fix so clearly he expects us to pay for this. My husband said no, that his roofer should be coming and if the source was properly identified during the demo then this wouldn't be happening. He was shocked that we felt he was responsible in any way. When my husband discussed the shower waterproofing and explained we have been getting feedback online he said not to tell him how to do his job and that these are not professionals. So clearly he is not assuming any responsibility and I will have to hire someone to fix it. And yes, that's my father, atrocious.

Has it really been determined that is the sole root of the problem? How did the moisture supposedly coming from the attic pass through the plastic then through the backer board to discolor the grout?

"It might have been adequately waterproofed on the backside with intact visqueen"

I was referring to the picture above with a big hole in the visqueen where you can see into the interior of the wall.

Definitely do not call his cousin, lol. You are running into enough family problems as it is.

I'm going to have to call around and look for a professional to come look at this.

This "independent specialist" he wanted to bring in is just some guy who "has built lots of bathrooms" and "want to work for him"

very independent hah

i am so not laughing about this. I don't have the extra $ to throw around fixing a bathroom I just renovated a year ago so this isn't a laughing matter to me.

Thank to everyone who has been following this post and commenting. I really really appreciate it.

"When my husband discussed the shower waterproofing and explained we have been getting feedback online he said not to tell him how to do his job and that these are not professionals."

He kinda has a point. Your best bet is to call in your own independent, licensed tile contractor for an evaluation. Not someone recommended by your current contractor. Best of luck to you in resolving this!

See if you can find someone through john bridge tile forum. It's a pro site. They are very knowledgeble and sticklers for detail and good workmanship.

Good idea thanks

i was also going to check out homestars

It's true that many people here aren't professionals, but that's not always a bad thing. Further, a number of us have learned some stuff in the hard school of experience. For example, when you have lots of time, I could tell you about my beautiful shower that started to have bulging tiles and tiles popping off the threshold a few years ago, and I can explain what I learned about the hidden parts of shower construction that are critical... :-)

1- there is no alkali resistant tape at the cement board seams

2- He used drywall screws to attach the ceement board.

Both of those issues are against the manufacturers instructions. If you want to pursue the point, the tiler owes you a new shower.

And some of us are licensed professionals.

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