Obviously ,you weren't paying attention,or I can just imagine ..never mind .how do you properly insulate a wall in a plaster and lathe home,especially at the floor and around windows and doors,maybe you can google it and teach me,,

@ monte1892 ....Love that statement!

@jergens1211.....

I want to see my windows against yours in the year 2090.

If the value was only in the lot, you should have found another house on a similar plot of land.

...maybe your peeps will respond accordingly...

In 2090 I'm sure your windows will still be there. If you're in heritage district I understand I get it. I'm not backpedaling however there are a few different types of older homes triple brick homes are the exception to my opinion even though they have massive problems as well. Your windows will still be there however they will of had massive amounts of man hours put into them to keep them in their state and maintenance if your time is worth nothing or if you have an endless budget to pay tradesmen to do the work then that's fantastic but your windows will not be more energy-efficient over the long run and my two or three times changed windows will be far superior and comfort in usability. The the parents can be brought up to 95% of original as earlier stated with trims and moldings and to sacrifice this aspect I feel it is much better to have an insulated healthy home rather than mold and who knows what for else as well as fire hazards in the walls I always like to gut the walls in order to properly repair structural deficiencies , the cost is that the original trim almost always can never be removed due to the amount of fasteners they used and the built in aspect that is usually present. Once again if your heritage district and you want to keep it all original and you have endless man-hours or you have endless funds to do have tradesmen do the work I understand and there's a place for that however most of these older homes have tons of structural issues that have to be addressed and that is why they have to be gutted . I still say my triple glazed argon/ krypton gas windows are at least twice as energy efficient as a original/storm window combo in prestine condition could ever be . I usually use a painted top of the line fibreglass wood jamb full frame series. Replacement window that will easily go 25 years before they need changing .

Have you ever PERSONALLY restored a window?

Total, each of my double hungs took approx 12 hours including window frame cleanup, not including glazing set time. Initial investment in glazing compound, linseed oil, turpentine, heat gun, shellac, primer & paint...Cost was approx 113.00

That does not equate "massive" amounts of man hours or an "endless" budget.

You obviously chose to pass on reading the documentation I'd attached earlier. I want to see your documentation on how replacements are more efficient. Right now all we have is your word, not any proof on paper from any certified window expert, energy expert, or any one else for that matter.

If you can't actually show us some proof.....

Per Bungalowmo's comment: you can also purchase various kinds of weatherstripping to help control air infiltration (I like bronze) and of course, you can add storm windows. The dead air space between the storms and interior windows is very effective at improving their energy performance. I would only replace windows if they were truly beyond repair, and they have to be really bad before that is necessary. Even rotted portions can be repaired with a consolidant and epoxy filler. And there are people who can make the odd new sash which must be replaced and match the old. We have them fabricated out of mahogany or other rot resistant wood such as Spanish cedar. One nice thing about the old windows is that they are relatively simple.

@ Kevin....You're in my neck of the woods! Fro Ro here! I changed out some of my weatherstripping with Springbronze...and a gazillion tiny brass nails!

@ chookchook...ghosties?? You bet. But they like me. They like to let me know they're around every now & then. Hidden keys, latched cabinet doors suddenly open, a sudden blow on the back of my neck.

@ monte1892...forgot to mention, I liked your post with the pics of the window rebuild.

I don't recall what post it was in, but someone had a piece of wood found during a restoration & it was signed by all the workers under "Today was not a good day", or something like that. Very cool to find "notes" from the past....

I'm not going to keep this going sir, there's really no point.

...or proof, apparently.

And that's Ma'am....

I didn't post my original post to ruffle any feathers. I posted it to pass on my experience and thoughts about a topic (windows). There are people that should own old homes and there are people that should not own old homes. I have repaired, rebuilt, and reconstructed the old windows in my home to keep the original structure intact. The window that I had to build a new frame for ended up costing me $140 in material. Luckily I live in the N.W., and there are backyard mills all over the place. I don't keep track of the time I spend on projects for my own home. I like my old windows and I enjoy returning them back to a really nice working window. After I finish the windows I will start on the doors. An old home will never be finished. There will always be something you want to do to it.

1. Необходимо пригласить реставратора строителя или архитектора, чтобы он помог вам правильно оценить состояние фундаментов, стен , крыши.
2.Обследование здания потребует частичного вскрытия полов, потолков и стен.
3. Подполье 1 этажа должно быть сухим, проветриваемым, без следов плесени.
4. Отмостка (полоса до 1м вокруг стен дома) должна иметь уклон от дома и состоять из уплотнённого песка покрытого булыжником или каменными плитами без цементного раствора.(Это для отвода дожевых вод).
5. Если зимние температуры бывают ниже - 20 -25 градусов, необходимо, чтобы трубы канализации были на глубине ниже 1,3 м. Трубы водопровода аналогично.
6. Подвод электрического провода к дому не менее 6 мм2 по меди. Обычно определяется расчётом.
7. Старые дома обычно имеют деревянные перекрытия. Надо проверить состояние концов балок заделанных в стены. Если там есть ослабление древесины, то предусмотреть усиление конструкций опор балок и проведение работ по защите древесины.
8. На чердаке проверить были ли протечки и в каком состоянии стропила и их соединения с затяжками, стойками, мауэрлатом. Там же проверить теплоизоляцию перекрытия. Чердак должен проветриваться.
Конечно, ремонт старого дома, особенно с сохранением его особенностей декора и конструкций более дорогое удовольствие, чем новое строительство. При этом важно чтобы строители имели опыт в реставрации.
Желаю вам успеха.

Как вы определяете "старый дом"?

I was in the middle of a lengthy google translate session myself! :0)

I tell people considering an old home purchase that if you don't love your old house, you will hate it. I own an old house and wouldn't consider buying a house less than 50 years old..


One method of insulating the window cavities is to allow the weights to move inside pieces of PVC pipe and use expanding foam around the pipes inside the cavity

The weatherstripping on my 1931 windows is very tight. Each sash has a channel on both sides and the zinc track has a protruding ribbon which fits inside the channel. The sashes also have interlocking brass weatherstripping where the upper sash meets the lower sash. The cost to replace my high end windows with comparable quality new windows would be upwards of $50,000...for which I might save $500/year on my heating bill. No thanks!

So what did Professional say?

Our home was built in 1912 and we love it so much that we had a 100th birthday party for it 2 years ago. I made displays with photos and articles about things that were happening in the world in 1912. I love thinking about the way life was back then and the families that lived and loved within these old walls. We just sold it and bought another old character beauty. I must be an old soul because I could never be happy in a home built after the 1920's.

The windows were already updated when I bought the home 10 years ago. We updated the kitchen making it more functional while maintaining its character. We also had the knob and tube wiring changed out and added R-50 insulation. Just had a plumbing issue with an old iron pipe. However, the old pipe lasted 102 years and the material they use now only has a 25 year life, so they really don't make 'em like they used to.

A new strand should be, "You know your home is OLD when...." Mine would be...."When people in the community in which you live call it by the name of its original owner, even if it was built 50, 75, 100, 150 years ago!"

Off topic/FIY: apparently it is/was commonplace for carpenters (around here anyway) to leave hidden messages in a build. I also found some paneling documenting a historic snowfall in '58. I had no idea about this until I talked about my finds with a local builder.

I have had workmen sign their work before they complete a project at my house! So far, my tile man, my finish carpenter and my roofers have done so....for future generations to find and remark about! And it is an acknowledgement of the skills of the laborer, too, that they sign their work. A wonderful idea, no?

SPIDERS. My girlfriend lived in a historic home when she was a child. She woke up one morning to find a HUGE spider dangling over her chest while she was laying in bed. She said they couldn't get rid of the spiders (or even put a dent in the number of them) so they moved as soon as they could. Spiders "feet" on the ends of their legs are so tiny, it makes it hard to get them to pick up enough poison to kill them. I kill every one I see in my home now because I know they can get out of hand.

Spiders, silver fish (where damp), centipedes, moths. Old houses offer a menagerie of entertainment.

Spiders and other bugs are everywhere... the age of the house has nothing to do with it! I had nasty centipedes in a brand new apartment building years ago.

@ Rusty Empire...I just mentioned that board you posted, yesterday. Just a handful of posts above your pic! Love that board!

@ Linda....I have that same interlocking weatherstripping.

It's still available:
http://www.kilianhardware.com/meetrailweat.html

I also have the comparable stripping under my entry doors. It locks in a channel on the threshold. Still works after 98 years.

http://www.kilianhardware.com/hookstripfor.html

bungalowmo. I meant large rugs, not carpet. My mistake. Some people like no rugs but that is too cold for me.

bungalowmo - thanks for the website...always good info for the library. I have one french door which needs a new weatherstripping piece.

I have one door which is in a corner that attracts wind blown debris and snow and I have to be vigilant about the small bits of leaves which come in with dirty shoes and windy days. Otherwise, it can get caught in the channel under the threshold and then the door won't close right. All it takes is a few seconds and a screwdriver to fix, but the handyperson gene doesn't seem to be present in the next generation!

Our house turns 150 this year. I agree with what Kevin and Scott and others have already said. The age of the house is one thing, but with our house it was the dodgy/cheap alterations people have done over the years. Two examples: All the windows downstairs had to be replaced because they had vinyl replacement windows that were several inches too small for the frames. Some were so warped, they didn't close. We also had to replace all of the doors because someone had replaced the old mortise hardware with modern hardware that was too thick for the doors. But we're making the house our own and we love the location.

We bought a 114 yr old farmhouse and basically gutted the whole thing. It only had 1 bathroom, so we added a second bath upstairs (instead the small 3rd bedroom up there). We had to completely redo everything, wiring, plumbing, heat/ac, windows, take out the chiminey from a fireplace that had been removed years ago, raise a couple of walls, new siding. When I say everything, I mean everything. The cool things we found was the ceilings were only 7'2", but when we took them down we found beautiful cathedrial ceilings. Yes, it's been a year long project and alot of headaches and surprises, but we are finally moving into our dream home this weekend and I wouldn't want any other house.

Hey #30....you replacing that with an old replacement sash?? :0)

Back on windows again: I have been in design and construction long enough (nearly 40 years) to have seen new windows fail and need replacement. The best of them seem to come with a 20-year warranty. Many of them fail in less than 20 years. There are more opportunities for failure in modern window systems as well. The seals are usually rubber or plastic and can harden, crack, and fall off. Then there's the insulated glass: the edge seals can and do fail causing the glass to fog. I have even seen mold growing between the layers. Then, if they were made of wood, you can almost bet the wood will rot in 20 years or even as few as five or ten. Of course few people buy wood windows now and smart manufacturers are working hard on the rot problem too. A lot of people like vinyl--not a very sustainable material, nor is it near as sturdy as fiberglass, or aluminum, both better choices in my view if you must replace windows. So there's no such thing as no maintenance when it comes to windows. They will need it. If you have decent old windows, and you have time to perform the deferred maintenance they may need, do it. Don't rip them out.

Good to hear this from an industry professional. Thanks.

When buying an older home one needs to make sure that the electrical wiring has been updated to conduit and it’s not cloth wrapped wiring as this can and does break down over time and can lead to house fires. The other thing to watch out for is to make sure there’s no asbestos present in the house as this was a very common pipe insulator in the 1920’s through the 1940’s. The last thing to look out for is a leaky basement. It’s only in the last 25 to 30 years that it became common to install drain tile and sump pumps in basements. Houses older than this quiet often have minor seepage through the basement walls and up from the basement floor.

Other than the above buying and older home can be great as they have a lot more charm and character than the newer homes of today.

My husband and I lived in a carpenter gothic home for 30 years, lovely restored everything, a lot our selves to save money, the blood, sweat and tears as they say,OMG the work and money, but It was truly beautiful. The constant upkeep of one of these homes and trying to get people who know what they are doing in restoration was a challenge, yes indeed one has to have patience We raised our family there and had a wonderful life. The time came to downsize. Built a beautiful ranch style home with lots of character, a courtyard, usage of stone, for pillars,fireplace, Open concept all one level, easy living as I say. Older homes are for the young with passion , money and lots of energy, I say to my husband I still love looking at these old beauties, but never never want to own one again!!

My homeowners insurance doubled this year. The insurance company said it was because it was more likely to burn down. This is an 2,600 square ft home that is 90 years old and has never had an insurance claim. I'm paying 3500 a year for insurance. They tried to tell me it was because of black mold, I talked to my restoration expert and he said no way because black mold does not live on plaster walls.

К сожалению, чёрная плесень может жить и в гипсовых изделиях, и штукатурке, в кирпичах, дереве и даже в силиконовом герметике. Это я знаю из собственного опыта в моей ванной. Причём, когда я вскрыл плиточный слой и обследовал кирпич (глиняный, красный), то обнаружил, что он как мыло легко режется. Мой дом относительно старый - 48 лет. Чёрная плесень только в ванной. После ремонта, в котором были проведены мероприятия по обработке плесени Химикатами и применены современные средства защиты и герметизации, через 5 - 6 лет опять появилась чёрная плесень. Пытаюсь с ней бороться перекисью водорода. но это долго. хотя есть положительный результат. но силикон придётся удалять вместе с плесенью. Раньше поражённые плесенью или грибком материалы сжигали, или обрабатывали огнём.

If the purchase plunge has already been made and by a couple, then the 1ST AND ABOVE ALL STEP is to mutually decide upon each other's roles. The decisions, big and small, to be made are countless. as are the unexpected finds. Whether the work is done by the homeowner or a contractor or both, everyone will appreciate it and the project will progress smoothly. 2ND, decide if the home will be restored or renovated. 3RD, find, no matter how long it takes, QUALIFIED and EXPERIENCED people to work on your old beauty.

My husband and I purchased a historic Frank Lloyd Wright home (1902) yrs back, in which every inch of it's 6000sq ft needed to be restored, replaced, or renovated. It took 4 years from hand sifting the plaster sand to remove an aggregate size not used in the 1900's, to tracking and flying furniture makers to private collections to replicate furnishings. We really enjoyed the journey to bring it to museum quality. It's been visited by over 10,000 historic home fans, a wonderful experience... and we're still married.

Judy Kelly-get another insurance company and/or home inspection!

We had to sell our dream home because of a move and a new job opportunity 2 years ago. A large 1927 coastal home in St Pete FL. I wanted to take my last breath in that house. ..but alas we now have a home built 70 years later. The thing I told the couple that bought our home at our open house was this. As beautiful as historic homes are, they are antiques and require patience. Before we touched a major thing in our home we lived in it...we got to know it, historic homes were built with purpose, built to last and age to be even stronger nearly a hundred years later. The wood hardens and becomes nearly impenetrable to pests. (At least cedar) the houses were not meant to be air tight...they were meant to breath long before A.C. was around. Before you tackle morphing an old beauty into a modern day show girl, save your self pain and grief of a botched job and get to know just why and why houses were built to last a hundred years or more...then carefully work around that;)

I am so happy to see all the comments about respecting the character of the house. Living in an old home is a responsibility and an honor. It is a piece of history and should be treated that way. It is also a more difficult lifestyle. Even with updated plumbing, electricity and fixtures, you might have a noisy house from lack of insulation or windows which aren't sound proof or draft proof. Your rooms could be small giving you an unflexible layout. You likely are managing without large walk in closets or impressively spacious kitchens. It's a trade off. You get character and ambience but sacrifice time, money and many modern conveniences.

My 100 year old Bungalow is mine - new windows-save the moldings/doors, new bath and kitchen - save the floors, enclose the back porch - save the front porch...I respect it's history BUT I don't have to respect the delusional people who came before me and wallpapered everything including the ceilings and doors, left live wires in walls and flooded the kitchen a dozen times to ruin the hardwood.

The worst thing about 100 yr old houses? Disrespectful, delusional PREVIOUS owners!

Lots of things in no particular order:
Is there/ does it have-
Termites or wood rot?
Leaky or damaged roof?
Vegetation growing out of the gutters?
Gutters missing/ water drainage problems?
Single pane windows/windows painted shut/damaged windows?
Asbestos?
Foundation cracking/ sagging causing doors and windows not to work properly?
Lead paint/ peeling paint?
Sagging roof?
Improperly supported structural elements - porch posts, roof supports, supportive walls removed?

what should you know? The # of times you refer to yourself as an idiot for buying this dump is inversely proportional to the amount of money you have to do anything about it.

Finally some sensibility,I thought I was in The Twilight Zone.

There are certainly pros and cons to owning a historic home...some of have had terrible experiences, others were rewarding (that would be me). Before you buy a historic home, have realistic expectations and the funds to maintain it. Blind optimism and failure to research and inspect your investment will certainly leave a bad taste in your mouth. Historic homes are not for everyone.

@jergens1211- I had to go back up and find your original postings to see about what you were talking. I don't think the trend nowadays is to "overbuild" anything; rather it is the opposite. Things like I-joists and this new minimalist framing technique called "efficient framing" or some such removes a lot of redundancy in favor of environmental impacts such as energy efficiency and saving of raw materials.

The manufacturers of I-joists finally caught on and came out with Flak-Jacket-the intumescent coating that helps protect it's vulnerable belly. What happens when the weather event comes along and turns the energy-efficient project into match sticks because there is no redundancy?

As for insulating plaster walls, we have a new addition on an old house. The old house walls are three layers of brick deep with plaster applied right to the brick on the inside face. We insulated by building 2 x 4 walls around the inside for mechanicals and insulation. I'm still kicking myself for not air-sealing.

Wow! A month on the same topic and still going. I always like to do a pro and con list. In this case it could be a pro and con list to buy a particular older house or the pros and cons of buying old versus new. New comes with its own set of headaches and costs. I always think that buying any house is a compromise. Pick you poison, or pleasure.

It's totally understandable that this would get a lot of comments. The real question when considering buying an old home is where to start. You can have everything from foundation to roof checked, but I would recommend having it inspected yourself if the owner permits. http://www.adolphsonrealestate.com/buyers_tools.html

I love older homes. But having lived in one, I would never buy one again. Visit, enjoy the charm, and leave it at that.

I love old homes and have renovated some. As much as I loved it, the maintenance never stops.