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61tinkerbell

Picture - Landscape Design

18 years ago

Hello everyone, I didn't even realize this area existed! (I guess that tells you I know VERY LITTLE about landscaping!)

We are building a home, and have an allowance of $15,000, sounded like plenty to me - but the designers plans added another $13,000 + onto it! I posted in the building area here, and they referred me to this forum> I guess we will bit the bullet and spend the extra in order to have a nice and finished yard, but I would everyone to catechize this plan! Some suggested that there is way too many foundation plants? Thoughts and opinions please!

{{gwi:10735}}

Thanks!!

Comments (19)

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    First of all, alot of designers put alot more plants than you might want to begin with just in case you want a high maintenance yard. I would suggest you go to a nursery and look at all the plants on your plan and than start with the large plants that you like and add the smaller ones when and if you like.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    In truth, I know little of Florida plants, but the very liberal use of Sweet Viburnum gave me pause to do a little research...

    Potentially a very large evergreen shrub or small tree. A fast grower and at maturity sweet viburnum may reach 20 ft. in height and 15 ft. wide. From Floridata: Don't plant too close to buildings or other structures. When used as a hedge or screen, the experts recommend planting this shrub 5 ft. apart (as measured from the center of each plant). Considerably more space should be left between shrubs when full growth is intended - ie. if you're not inclined to be doing regular pruning.

    "Nanum" is a dwarf form of Sweet Viburnum: very dense, 18 to 24 inches in height and 1 1/2 times that in spread which makes a good filler or facer plant and can be used for low hedges.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    The style seems to be that which uses mass plantings in bands which is a very popular way of doing things in Florida from what I see on TV. The idea would be to grow them into each other to form continuous almost hedgelike plantings. Pruning and shearing are a big part of that, so I would be a lot less concerned with the mature size of the plants as they would be if allowed to grow naturally.

    It can be fine, if you like that style unless low maintenance is a priority.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I am unfamiliar with Florida plant material, but if you don't want to bite the bullet concentrate on the front of the house first. Yes go to a garden center and check out the plants they listed. If the designer is from a garden center more than likely he/she is using plants they have in stock which is not always the best option for homeowners. Forget the sides of the house until later on because the only time you will view those areas is when you are coming and going. Frankly speaking I never used hedges in my landscape plans. Nothing worse than seeing someone trim plants to match. Yuk! Except in formal gardens. There are too many viable options.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Propagating Perennials

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I keep going back to the drawing and my frst reaction is "nice". But I don't know if I'm reacting to the artwork itself or because it could be a good solution to your landscaping needs or quite what. But from what's proposed, pushing 30k seems almost to be on the low end. What we don't know - are you hands on and willing to do maintenance? A "Nice and finished yard" becomes something else when the landscapers pull away and when the plant material settles in and begins its natural growth process. It's work to keep it nice and a reality sets in - it's never really finished either.

    I do have some experience with Burford Hollies - good for tight spaces, but eventually it took some effort to keep them contained in small spaces; and I was often picking spikey leaves out of the grass (not to mention occasionally a bare foot).

    Indian hawthorns - and I see a lot of those on the plan, too - are low-growing evergreen flowering shrubs. They have a dense mounded growth habit and are ideal low-maintenance plants for use in small gardens and foundation plantings.

    Podocarpus Maki is good for screening or as a specimen plant. There's so much info on the internet on the plan's proposed plants - well worth getting an idea of how they potentially fit into the landscape. You may well find that some of the numbers can be scaled back a bit.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Dear Tinker,

    The drafting on this plan is very well done. But I agree with Shadylainie and Duluth - start with the front and begin installing the key material first like the magnolia. And be very careful researching the plant material. In fact, I would go to a couple of nurseries (possibly 3 or 4) if only to some get some additional opinions.

    I'm a bit concerned about all the hedges I see encircling the house and pool. That seems like an awful lot of shrubs - too many in fact.

    I don't think it's necessary to have an unbroken line of shrubs entirely around the house. I think it needs to be broken up more with more groundcovers and/or lower maintenance perennials. The shrubs should accent rather then dominate. I think the shrub material needs to be reduced by at least 2/3.

    Bear in mind you can always add later and this way you can see how the woody materials develop over the next few years.

    You want to enhance your investment rather end up ripping it all out in a few years because too many plants were crammed into an insufficient space.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    The plantings are the least of concerns about this plan that I would have. I wonder why you have such a tight in pool enclosure and decking. There is barely enough area for the two chaise lounges. Perhaps it is a lot coverage issue?

    There also seems to be a great waste of space east of the pool area that is not big enough to do anything on and cut off from the pool area.

    The plan seems to be a planting plan around things that the designer is either stuck with, chose to ignore, or is oblivious to.

    I understand the layout of the driveway because it is forced by the architecture. Although it is very tight to maneuver, it is not unattractive (I'm assuming the circle is a pavement pattern not a cut out).

    The back yard is a very poor use of space in my opinion. The lawn area between the house and pool enclosure does not seem to be a comfortable space at all. It looks like a fireplace is in between there as well. The access to the pool area seems almost as awkward as the pool area itself. I also do not see the rest of the pool enclosure. The whole property is broken up into segments that nether flow together nor stand up well on their own.

    I don't see a good pool experience. I don't see a very inviting fireplace experience. I don't see that other areas of the property lend themselves to any other activities (active or passive) that might contribute to your quality of life.

    The planting design looks more like filler to me rather than a composition, but I think that might be a regional style.

    There, I was not going to give a critique, but since no one else seems to want to do more than discuss plant choices I spoke up.

    What type of experience do you want out of having a pool? Does this plan help acheive that experience?

    What makes the fireplace something that you want? Almost surely you have a way that you expect to feel by using it. What would enhance getting that feeling? Do those enhancements exist in this plan?

    Do you see what I'm trying to tell you? The goal is what you experience by using these amenities rather than just collecting the amenities. Let the desired experience drive your design rather than having the design impose a different experience upon you.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Little hard to read, but as opposed to "lawn" area - isn't it a lanai? I had that figured to be continuous hardscaping from the back of the house with maybe a stepdown to the pool level.

    Also, the OP said they were building the home - is this a preliminary plan or already well under construction? Maybe the charge of prematurely talking plants is valid if the slab hasn't yet been poured - even though that was the aspect the OP offered up for consideration... being a landscape design forum probably only added to the confusion.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    The back of your house seems similar to mine in that we have a deck off the back foundation with 2 steps down to the pool area.

    IMO one of the principals of design is to soften the hard lines of buildings etc. I always wondered why some people tend to circle their foundation with stiff hedges thus making the hard line of the house look even harder. I understand that some foundation planting are needed but for me, designing from the outside in instead of from the foundation out creates rooms, extensions of the inside an open feeling. In other words, the visuals from inside the house out are just as important as looking at the house from the street.
    {{gwi:10736}}

    {{gwi:10737}}

    Also, I feel that an overall plan indicating the use of your space as to functionality, privacy areas, etc. should be analyzed and scoped out and the choices of plant material needed to carry out the spatial needs can then be determined. Sometimes it takes spending time in the house to actually have a real feeling about landscape needs.

    Not knowing what was presented to the designer regarding what you were trying to achieve out of landscaping it is hard to give an honest opinion of the designer. With that said and the other ideas mentioned in the previous posts, maybe you feel some changes need to be made and hopefully you and the designer can work together to achieve your goals.
    Good luck,
    Ally

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Ah, I see now that it is lanai. It is still a chopped up space in my opinion.

    I do not disagree that plants should enhance the good and mitigate the negative in a landscape. All that I am saying is that the overall layout should be planned in order to have less to overcome through the use of plants.

    I don't think it is premature to discuss plants, but that does not appear to be a $28k planting job which would indicate that there is a good deal more of this project that is yet to be built. If that is the case, there is no reason to ignore it.

    A landscape design, or any other design for that matter, should work from from the big picture toward the detail - from the macro to the micro. Part of that is your point of beginning I suppose. If you are a garden designer it may start out with the planting beds being the big picture. If you are a site designer, the positioning of the house is the beginning.

    Whether anything is built yet or not, all of these issues are part of landscape design and should be discussed from time to time.

    Picture yourself living in this landscape rather than just looking at it.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Thanks everyone for all your thoughts and opinions! Both myself and DH will have to really re-read everything and give this all more thought! The house is under construction, fireplace space/lanai is there - and all and all we love that set-up for us, it's the landscaping I really need to be critiqued - as this has to still be finalized.

    Ally, love your yard - very nice.

    I should mention that where we are, (I am sure it's the county) they have a 50/50 rule. Have the yard area needs to be sod, the other half planting and beds. Something to do with building green, and saving water? These plants are suppose to be drought resistant.

    Keep the thoughts coming - as we will really be hashing this all over!

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Tinker, my husband would love the 50/50 rule because he can foresee a time when I will be finished. My landscape is my passion. I work hard and long at maintaining and developing gardens and in return, they reward me with much joy. In times like now where life is so full of demands, having a place of serenity allows me to slow down and take in the moment; thus ignoring the past, not thinking about tomorrow just staying in the now.

    Try not to let the landscaping part of the project make you crazy as I am sure the building part is quite capable of doing that. Break things down into manageable parts and as you see things coming together it will not be quite as overwhelming.

    If you think it will help, posting some pictures of the areas might help posters with feedback.

    Ally

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I am assuming for the price this also includes a sprinkler and drip system? Those would be crucial to me. I only ask because although I have about an acre of landscaped area, they would cost about ten thousand to install here.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I assume that you are in Florida's planting zone 10?

    We are having our Florida yard landscaped soon with 3 sabal (native) palms, 2 European fan palms (cold resistant) and 1 canary date palm (cold resistant) + various other plants, several of them native to Central Florida because I want to attract birds. The price tag is much lower than yours (under $ 10 000)

    I assume that your high price comes from the enormous number of plants, the type of palms, their size and the many, many boulders which are expensive in Florida. The sprinkler system would also explain the price. I would ask the landscape designer what he can do for the money alotted, see what he comes up with, and compare.

    What I noticed: Four of your palms are not really visible from inside the house. They look good from the outside only. (the 3 christmas palms at the sides and one pygmy date palm at the front corner)

    I agree with laag that the plantings along the back east side are so close to the house and the screen cage that you lose view of the lawn area behind it. With the tight row of bushes around the screen cage, you might feel closed in. On the west side, a planting bed is located further away which is better.

    Enjoy your yard!

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Yes, zone 10 - Fl. Both the sod and the irrigation system is included in this price (thought I posted that! That is approx. $5000). The pool/pavers and driveway is NOT included in this price at all (add another $70,000 for that) just the plants, sod, irrigation boulders and slate pathways. We really have been riding around and looking at a lot of house landscaping! Here, in the higher end sub-divisions, people do seem to add the foundation plants - causing that hedge effect. I can't see behind the houses, but on our house, I know I want something low and minimal since we overlook a natural preserve with a lake. Thanks everyone for all your input!

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    You are right, the foundation plants are always added to the house.
    I recommend to post in the Florida section of the gardenweb to get input from people who know how your plantings will look like in five years.

    (I hope that nobody noticed that I can't tell east from west.)

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Tinker:
    I am a Landscape Architect out of Miami. Not knowing whether you are in the Naples area or Ft.Lauderdale area let me provide some straight to the point input.
    First I hate foundation plantings. Let's begin at the front:
    1.Hardscape design- It seems base on scale that the motor court is to small, unless that is what you provided as a program to your designer. It seems as though you can't do a complete free turnaround if there are other cars park there.
    The mimimun size you should have is a 40' x 40' motor court.
    Again I don't know if you have a large family or just two cars, etc, and what restrictions you place on your designer.
    But the setback of the home is nice and you have room. Also remember when you have friends over that they can park and leave easily. (If you have a party it really doesn't matter)
    However, make sure your entry drive is 14' wide minimum-18' maximum.Personally I like 16' wide drives ways.
    The angle drive is nice but make sure the auto is able to miss the corners. That is where the concrete will break or pavers will move on you if you are using it on sand, regarless they provide a concrete border to hold the pavers in place.
    Do not use stamp concrete- when it rains it is slipery and cars will slide when trying to stop.

    As to the landscape- Sun rises on the East- Why is it you don't have a tree or trees (away from the home) but stratigicaly place to block sunrise on those bedrooms windows?!
    2.The plan needs to be freed up. The plants are all jamb up to the house. There should be a balance between house and property line. It should be design to be a walking experience everywhere. Create interesting lines that seems to disappear and you want to see what is there.
    4. The Foxtail Palms are nice however make sure they are about 16'-18' minimum overall height to give you impact. (They are very feeniky so treat them gently until they are extablished. I would have used triple alexander palms, Veitchia mongomeryana (Montgomery Palms in double trunk) they will provide a stronger impact. However, if you told your designer a 15K budget then the design fee was around $4000.00, soil, mulch fertilizer another $2,500 to 3,000 dollars. That left you with $8,000 dollars for plants and labor. That also transpires to about $6,500 for plants.
    That is why the increase of an additional $13k to your original budget. Oh, I don't know if you needed sod.
    5.The East Palatka are nice native trees,they are probably 30-45 gallons-(12'in height) you also need atleast one or two 200 gallons Oak, or Elaeocarpus tree for accent and balance.
    Forgive me Tinker, but the plan is poor.
    Here are my suggestion to you:
    1.First go and see and write down the plants you like.
    2. I like what laag said. Look at that design as though you are going to be out there all the times.
    3. Enlarge the pool patio area a bit more so that there is a balance between house and patio. I just don't see creativity. again forgive me I am just putting in my two cents and food for thought. You are making a big investment.
    4. You have a large lot, create outdoor rooms that have different views to the preserve and lake areas.
    Sorry that I got carried away.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I have to agree that there is not much originality here. It is a typical south FL landscape plan and will probably make your yard look pretty much like all your neighbors, if that's what you want. I do cringe to see so many hedges around the house, and especially the fast-growing, wants-to-be-a-tree sweet viburnum. I see a lo-o-t of maintenance, trying to contain those viburnum. Wouldn't it be nice if landscapers would start using plants that actually grow to the desired size, instead of engaging in the never-ending battle to keep them from blocking the windows?
    That aside, when I do a landscape plan I take the whole property into account, and plan for future plantings as well as what fits into the client's budget. We discuss, together, what parts of the plan they would like to implement immediately, within their budget. Many of my clients like to develop their landscapes over time, as opposed to doing it all at one time and letting that be that.
    One more small concern: the pool area seems awfully exposed. Maybe its just me, but I'd rather the neighbors not see me in my teeny-eeny bikini. If that were my house I'd plant those viburnum at the property line instead of right against the house, and I'd make more use of the Indian hawthorne around the foundation.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I don't think the price is off the mark. That's a lot of area to cover with materials and a lot of plants. The average yard 1/4 acre we install in a much less expensive market ranges from $30,000- $80,000 and that doesn't include expensive items like outdoor fireplaces or swimming pools. I'm assuming an automated irrigation system is included in that price though.

    I'm not particularly impressed with the design as it's rather choppy and uses too many of the same plant in a line around the pool etc. I am not familiar with Florida plants but you don't have to be to grasp that there's too much generic plant material plunked in with insufficient consideration. I think you would do well to cut back on the number of plants initially and see how it goes. Be aware though if you are paying to have the yard installed that cutting back the plants probably won't save you THAT much money.

    The cost of plants on most jobs is no more than 10 MAYBE 20% of the budget so reducing your plants by 1/2 would only save you 5% of the job cost yet may significantly decrease the end look of the project. Not sure if you're overplanted or not as I tend to like denser plantings which help camoflauge the weeds etc. that the homeowner may not get to right away.

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