Thanks Al.

To answer the other Al's question, I got the impression that it would be too expensive to use FP in a hose end sprayer. That's why I wondered if I could put a bit (1/8 t maybe?) of the FP near the base of a plant and just water it in. ?

Wouldn't it be awsome if it was sold in powder form?

I think I will call the company and suggest this..

Then we could use a hose end sprayer, it would be a lot more economical, and a heck of a lot easier..
They have responded to me before...Let's see..

Thinks of all the plants you could get at once, so convenient!

Mike..:-)

Calistoga,
Thanks I just ordered a 5 gal bucket of foliage pro for $167.67 counting shipping. $33.53 a gal, the last I bought was right at $50.00 a gal. Talked to Rick at SouthWest. The fol pro was actually $23.32 a gal for a five gal bucket, Shipping hurt @ $51.07. Still $33.53 a gal average is a good price to me, ive never found it in Fl.
Plant em if you got em.
Sam

Yes, Foliage Pro is available in powder form. Just buy the raw ingredients and mix it up yourself for a fraction of the cost. BTW, how many people touting Foliage-Pro work for that company or own stock in it?

Still on that kick? We get your point! None here work for FP that I know of; and who owns shares of what company's stock is probably something we could consider none of your concern ..... don't you agree? ;o) No one has motives beyond sharing the good results they're used to as a result of using the product ..... so no need to be cynical.

BTW - We're still on hold here - did you come up with that recipe for us ..... for making your/our own FP ..... and are you ready to tell us how you determine who (what plant) needs what nutrient and when? Answering those questions so we can all share in your easy and practically free alternative would probably be the best way to put some heft in your critique.

Al

The link below is right from the manufacturers website, and is a list of the actual ingredients, most of which you could easily buy for yourself much cheaper in bulk from most any farm supply store. Note the synonyms list, they have a bunch of products that are all essentially the same stuff. You could also substitute ingredients if you already had them on hand or they were cheaper or more readily available. For example, if you used ammonium phosphate for the phosphorus, which is 20% phosphorus, you would have to add 19.2 ounces to a gallon of water to make it 3% phosphorus, which would cost 32 cents (50 pound bag cost me $13 last time I bought it). This would also supply part of the ammoniacal nitrogen. I am not going to calculate everything for you, but you can see the raw materials are very cheap, even buying them retail. For the micronutrients you could use ironite or any other brand of pre-mixed micronutrients. Potasssium nitrate would be one of the most expensive ingredients, but even that you could buy 50 pounds for $26.32, or 53 cents a pound. It is 46 percent potassium, so you would need 16.7 ounces to supply the 6% potassium in a gallon of Foliage-Pro, at a cost of 55 cents.
As to knowing what your plant needs, there are many books and websites that give pictures of what nutrient deficiencies do what to a leaf.

Here is a link that might be useful: Foliage-Pro ingredients list

Unless Dyna-Gro is a subsidiary of another company, I don't see them listed as a publicly traded company, thus one couldn't own stock in them. Subsequently, it is strange they have so many employees scattered all over the country. ;)

-Brett

We already know what's in FP, Cal. While we get your point, you're missing ours entirely and beating a dead horse. We don't really care if someone else thinks we're stupid for over-paying for the convenience of not having to go through mixing what you tried to described; and rare indeed are the (professional) growers who can consistently diagnose nutritional disorders w/o tissue analysis to guide them. So even though I'm no slouch when it comes to identifying nutritional disorders, I see the book/website idea as altogether impractical for me - I'd say naive for you, but I won't, because then I'd be judging you.

What fertilizer we use is an individual decision a lot of us are just fine with, no matter who is judging us or the product. Call it a vice if it makes you feel better. ;o)

Just like every other commodity in this world ..... people who can afford it and think it's worth it will buy it - those that can't afford it or don't think it's worth it won't. Fini.

Al

I received a small bottle, 8 fl. ounces, for Christmas.
I haven't even gotten to the half-way point. I also found a local source today, 32 fl. ounces for $20.

I certainly don't work for DynaGrow, either.


Josh

Hi Josh!
Sounds like a good deal! I will be ordering some this week! and will gladly pay a little extra for all the conviences!

Considering my math stinks~ I would be in no mood to figure and measure..

Price of gas ~Not gonna want to drive all over town like an idiot looking for ingredients.

Oh, not to mention, it's been 106 and the jeep does not have ac..

Time~ I'm a SAHM, with a garden and teen to keep busy for the summer.. Who has time to mix!!

I'll take a ready made all in one product like Foliage Pro, know my plants are well taken care of, leaving me more time to enjoy my garden, family, and friends!!

Speaking of which, Josh, we need to get over to Jodi's for coffee soon! Al and Mike and Ashley too~ :)

JoJo

Hmmm, found this thread touting Foliage-Pro, see many of the same names as are touting it on this thread. The sales rep for Foliage-Pro even chimed in with a ten percent discount for anyone mentioning garden-web. Meyer-Mike, Calistoga, Tapla??

Here is a link that might be useful: Foliage-Pro thread

Yep, just as I said:
"FP is at the top of my Christmas list! ;)"

Now that I've been using it since late December, I can recommend this product with confidence.

Why are you so cynical? Why must you assume that I've been *paid off* by this company?
Your insistence is insulting.

Josh

californian,
Not everyone likes to drive white 1974 chevys. Get a grip, or better yet get a gal of power pro.
Plant em if you got em.
Sam

Actually, I find it too silly to be insulting. When he comes up with a recipe for me to look at, and some advice to the forum on how he tells what his plants need when, I'll pay some heed to what he's actually saying.

Al

I jump at any opportunity to be insulted ;)

A joke, of course. In the other Thread, Al, you even mentioned that you used to mix
up a special blend. You've been charged to "mix your own" from the raw ingredients. Well,
it seems to me that you have done that - for all intents and purposes - and have found that
it is not as efficient or as simple as those leveling the charges would have us believe.

Josh

So whats next? We all get accused of being Sales Reps for bark and turface companies, because we use it, love it in our mixes and share the news?

JoJo

Aie aie aie. I still would like to know if I can put a bit of FP at the base of my roses and then water it in. Seems the most economical way to do it short of using a watering can. If this is feasible, how much FP should I put down for each rose?

Hi Darlene,
I am very new to container growing and liq. ferts in general.

so this is just my opinion...

hopefully one of the Al's~ or Josh(anyone who's using this) will be by soon to better help you.

I really don't see how you are wanting to use it would work.
It would seem you have no control over it being properly diluted and distributed to the roots.

liq. ferts. are usually diluted by the gal. so if you were to put it at the base of your plant, and then water with hose, how would you know when a gallon has been applied, and it would seem to only reach a little of the roots.

like I said, it's just MHO. Hopefully someone who knows better will be along and we will both learn something from this.

I think you had a good idea with just doing a few plants at a time,

Best wishes..
JoJo

Darlene,
I sure wouldn't do that.

Josh

Hi Darlene,

I just bought this hose end sprayer. I've only used it once, but so far what I like about it is that it's easy to select the dilution level, and you can empty the unused product back into the original container. You can also select what sort of spray you want. It's got a little off/on switch, so if you're careful you can just water each plant without a lot of waste. I can't say how durable it is since I've only used it once, but it's not expensive, and so far seems to work pretty well.

Given the number of plants you seem to have to water and your disability, personally, this is what I'd use.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sprayer

Susan,
That looks like a good deal! I may get me one for spraying my shrubs for mosqitos, and fish emulsion around the yard!

Here in AZ. I worry more about wasting water, than product. :) And my beds are spread out.

Thanks for posting that!

JoJo

I know that you like Foliage Pro for your containers, but why don't you buy any good quaility all purpose fertilizer for your inground plants that come specifically for the hose end sprayers and use them?

Maybe MG, in the right ratio of Shultz?

If you can find it, a 3:1:2 ratio fertilizer (24-8-16, 12-4-8, 9-3-6 are all 3:1:2 ratio fertilizers) that contains all the minor elements would great. I think it is not that difficult to find any of these anymore..I have been even using a 10.10.10 and it has worked wonders for all my perenials and herbs, and shrubs..

You could even use slow release fertilizers like Plant tone, or granules, then water in..Since the ground has a chalk full of nutrients just by nature itself, and all the critters that poop in the ground like worms, what are you worried about?

I myslef have NEVER used FP on any inground plants and they all still thrive on any good quality fertilizer sprayed from a hose end sprayer..I even mix fish emulsion into the sprayer too..

Save the FP for your containers since the plants in them are more dependent on you for good nutrition. Let mother nature take care of the inground ones. I would be more concerned about pH than a good fertilizer.

They do sell fertilizers specifically made for roses too. They work wonders..

Why make this more challanging for youself when it can be so easy and fun?

Trust me, I am not a MG, Shultz, or Plantone rep either....:-)

Mike

Hi Mike!!
I think you missed a post. (I know you read in a hurry at work ;) )

It sounds like her plants are in containers. She mentions having them on her deck, a ways up in the posts. And limited walking space between them.

I'm glad your not a Rep! Your way to busy as it is!! LOL!

Talk to you soon and will write tonight! Promise! ;)

JoJo

OOPS!!!!!!!!!

I did..You are right,where was my brain???/lol. I did sneak this post in and read all but that one!!In fact, getting quite a kick out of some of this thread, while at the same time wanting to help out this fine member.....

I miss you by the way!

Great advice everyone, excuse mine unless you have inground plants..lol..

Hugs Jojo

Mike

Yes, all my plants are in containers. I have in excess of 40 of them up on my deck above the garage.

Darlene

From your post it sound's like you could handle a watering can if you had to. If it was me, no matter what brand of fertilizer you plan to mix up a solution of, I would buy a used 55 gallon plastic drum with a removable lid (look on Craigslist, usually sell for around $20 to $25), or else a sturdy 20 or 30 gallon plastic garbage can that will hold water, and mix up a big batch all at one time. Then just fill your watering can up by dunking the whole thing in the barrel. This way you don't have to waste time mixing one watering can full at a time. You could also use a smaller watering can if that would be easier for you and just make more trips. Using this method I can water 40 to 50 plants in ten or fifteen minutes. I actually have half a dozen 30 gallon plastic barrels, and I keep individual nutrients mixed in each. One has potassium nitrate, another epsom salts, another zinc chelate, another urea, another Miracle-Gro, etc. and I can foliar feed any of them whenever I want using a watering can.

Was it this thread or another in which I mentioned how inefficient foliar feeding was - that roots are by far the most efficient pathway for most plants we would be discussing on this forum. It you think you see any benefit from foliar feeding. you need to take a very close look at what you're providing via the root pathway, because something is wrong.

Al

This one on the 21st. ;)

JJ

Thanks. I live in a townhouse and have NO room for a trash can or 55 gallon drum. It sounds like a great idea though!

I fertilized 3 roses yesterday and it was too painful to continue. So I guess I'll be limited to granular fertilizer. I've heard that Rose Tone is good for roses so I'll try that.

Thanks everyone for all the suggestions. Y'all are the best!

Hi Darlene,
I'm sorry to hear your still having trouble.
Were you using a 1 gal can? or bigger?

I understand how you feel, I shattered my writst years ago, and sometimes garden work gets to me and i'm not the most cordinated person using the other.

I wish you all the best!
JoJo

Drudadunat,

I am sorry to that you are in pain. I wish you all the ebst too and I hope everything works out well for you and your plants.:-)

Hi Jojo....:-)

Mike..

Thanks Mike and Jojo. I'm really bummed out about not being able to use FP after reading all the great things about it. I'm going to get some Espoma Rose Tone, but I'm not locked into it. If anyone has suggestions for granular fertilizers for roses and other blooming plants I'm all ears!

I wish FP came in a granular control release product. LOL

This Datura I have in a container is a HEAVY feeder and I'm constanting feeding it. Like a baby. :)

Speaking of babies, my Monarch emerged from it's chrysalis today woo hoo! Well it's not really a baby since it's considered an adult now. I have 4 more chrysalis awaiting eclosing, and about 20 more caterpillars. The monarchs LOVE this tropical milkweed as I'm harvesting eggs almost everyday.

Foliage Pro is, as Al says, a terrific fertilizer, I have amazing results for my tomato containers, so why waste time reinventing what works, it would be like building a BMW from parts to save money. For containers, FP goes a long way, I have 100 ripening tomatoes on 8 heirloom tomato plants and the FP cost so far has been 1/10th of an FP gallon which is $3 or 3 cents per tomato. Since my tomatoes are 5 feet high, healthy and in production mode I reduced FP dose to 1 tsp per gallon water and compliment with ProtekT 1-1/2 tsp per gallon for resilience from disease/pests by virtue ProTek's silicon/K. Thanks Al for your advice

Correction, I reduced the FP to 1/2 tsp per gallon once established

Robertbay-

You are using quite abit more protek than recommended but perhaps you have a reason for doing so. I have had a bottle last for years as you are supposed to use 1/4 teaspoon to 1/2 teaspoon to 1 gallon of water according to label. You mention 1 and 1/2 teaspoons per gallon.

Years ago I heard Protek touted in more than one lecture by different orchid nurserymen who swore it did great things for orchids. And now there are even more studies promoting silicon benefits.

As far a tomatoes , besides the silicon benefits, potassium is supposed to be especially important for enhancement of flavor in tomatoes so protek provides both.

Any chance you could post pics of your tomatoes?

drudadunat,

I second the dial up hose end sprayer if you want to use FP--I use one all the time and there really isn't all that much waste. It has an on/off as you move from plant to plant.

Either that or the suggestion of a time-release like Dynamite would really make it easy for you.

You used to be able to find Foliage Pro at any orchid supply store but not at the regular 'box' stores.

One thing I do when I use my hose end sprayer, is instead of returning the unused portion to the gallon jug, I pour it into another container (I find the empy Dawn dishwashing bottles to work great - they seal well and store easily). I think that is an easy extra step to avoid any possiblity of contaminating the product. It also means I have an easy to use bottle of product (I use the sprayer for a variety of things) for manual use if needed. I find it unwieldy to measure a tablespoon from a gallon jug.

Thanks for the tip about Dynamite, I'll look for it next time I am at the garden center.

Darlene

Farkee sorry it took me a while to respond to your helpful comments on ProtekT and your request for my container tomato pics. I have been using 1-1.5 teaspoons ProtekT per 2 gallons (I misspoke before), or less than 1 teaspoon per gallon, in conjunction with 1/2 teaspoon per gallon Foliage Pro. As for ProtekT, the label says 1/2-1 tsp/gallon for hydroponic production, does that mean recirculating systems? (mine isn't, mine is bottom reservoir) If my self watering containers are more in the "maintenance" label category, I am using a wee bit more than the maintenance recommendation, but ProtekT is highly diluted (3% potassium silicate) so probably no harm no foul.

Once I figure out how to post pics, farkee you will see I have robust growth and production, which would be more red than green but for the 20 degrees below normal temps in northern California this season. My self-critique would be my ProMix containers (planted only 7 weeks ago) have runaway growth beyond production yet the early tomatoes are delicious, the heirloom tom's seem healthy. No doubt the 50 degree nights aren't helping production, also my house blocks the late afternoon sun, so all in all I am satisfied with FP+ProtekT.

Californian, thanks so much for calling my attention to the other foliage pro thread, the link on the post there from the rep at Dyna Gro allows you to find local retailers that carry it! I found a retailer here in Fort Worth so I can buy it without paying for shipping -YAY!

I bought a plastic sprayer for less than $10 at Lowes. I use a dilute mixture that I spray to foliar feed. It only takes a few pumps to spray for several minutes.

When foliar feeding with the Foliage-Pro, you only need to use 1/2 teaspoon or less per gallon of water. For foliar feeding, you only need to spray a fine mist on the leaves. You don't have to douse them with a huge amount.

TAPLA is completely wrong in saying above, "Foliar feeding is very inefficient...." Research has shown that foliar feeding is an extremely fast and efficient way to provide trace nutrients. While it might not be practical for large farms, foliar feeding can work very well for home gardeners. I like foliar feeding because it uses only small amount of fertilizer, so it doesn't contribute to water contamination due to runoff.

Research has shown improved fruit production, when foliar feeding tomatoes during blooming.

While one should wash out a sprayer after each use, I am only using this sprayer for fertilizer, and I leave the feeding solution in the spray until the next time I want to spray the plants. I never use any poison sprays, so I don't have to worry about confusing this spray with anything else. Since the sprayer is all plastic, I have not had any problem with it rusting or corroding. I keep the sprayer in the dark so that algae will not grow inside and clog the sprayer. I kept the box it came it and sit the canister back inside its box to keep it dark until I'm ready to spray again.

It is a super way to provide calcium to prevent blossom end rot in tomatoes, without having to worry about changes in the soil pH.

drudadunat,
I installed a drip watering system for my container pots this year using the "DIG" brand components sold at Home Depot (I had to have them special order the "pot and basket misters" but well worth the wait). It was easy to assemble and makes watering a breeze, I installed a timer too so it can take care of my plants when I am too hot or busy to be out there and it waters slowly so the water saturates the soil/planting mix without a lot of waste. They have a fertilizer attachment too that allows you to incorporate fertilizing into your drip watering which I haven't tried yet but it sounds like it might be a perfect solution for you.

gtippitt, that's a great idea with the plastic sprayer! I plan to get a couple for my neem oil and fish emulshion.

FWIW, I just got off the phone with the folks at dyna-pro. I was trying to determine how much product I would need and I asked the rep about how much to use for each plant, she said just the same amount of diluted product as you normally usually use to water so I asked about spraying the foliage too and she said "oh no, you do not spray the foliage with this product"

Of course you can use a hose end sprayer for applying fertilizer, if the sprayer will deliver such a dilute solution.

If it won't dilute down that far, you mix the fertilizer in the sprayer container with some water and when the sprayer draws up more solution to mix, it ends up with the correct dilution.

There is a trigger on the sprayer. Just go from plant to plant and squoosh a squirt of solution into each pot and move on to the next one.

The only possible problem might be the spray hitting the soil too hard and pushing it around. That should not be a problem if you can adjust the spray.

Foliar feeding is a good method for adding trace nutrients such as calcium to get the fastest response. However it is not he best way to provide the primary nutrients the plant needs, which is best provided through the roots and the plants vascular system. This Al, agrees with the other Al.

Indeed, if a plant is in such desperate condition that it actually benefits from foliar feeding....
well, there are other cultural conditions that must be changed immediately.

Josh

When I read the differences in opinion about foliar feeding, I went to the science research. Everything I read - not marketing stuff, but actual research - said what Calistoga said. It's great for delivering micros. It's not great for delivering everything, however and can burn the leaves if given at concentrations that are needed by the plant (if it's the only form of delivery).

I'll stick to root delivery.

Know what would actually be a nice thing to do here? It would be to provide for a person.....who already has read and analyzed the topic of Tapia's container forum topics and suggestions on 5-1-1 mix and using controlled release fert. and already bought Foliar Pro and ready to use it....and did a search on "Foliar Pro Delivery" because he wanted to be sure how to use it on his tomatoes......and Lo and Behold....just wanted to know how to use the stuff!!!! (instead of all this whining about how much it costs and defending it. I just wanted to stick with the topic and answer the lady's question. How much Foliar Pro? How often? Can you use Neptune fish/kelp along with it? Do you use more when tomatoes are fruiting? Less?

The way to do that is to start your own topic instead of responding to one tat is four years old.

Forums are by their nature, forums. Perhaps what you want is a "wiki" set up to provide a structured but living document on certain methods and practices.

(GardenWeb seems to be beating out everyone else to be the preeminent garden forum, in good part by having "a big tent" with hydroponicists and permaculturalists under the same roof.)