Most people have heard the story about the ham with the ends cut off by now, but for those who haven't I'll retell it briefly here. A woman who was asked by her husband why she always cut both ends of a ham off before putting it in the pan and into the oven replied that it was because her mother always did it that way. When she asked her mother the reason, her mother replied that she wasn't sure, but that was how Grandma always did it. So they called Grandma to ask her, and she replied that she cut the ends off because her pan was too small otherwise.

Where I live, about one out of 5 houses has dwarf alberta spruce flanking the front door. This is probably why your landscaper used them, because he thinks it's the "thing to do", having seen them elsewhere. No way is this guy a landscape designer, because if he was, he'd be doing something a lot more interesting. In my design class, we had 5 points taken off our grade for using dwarf alberta spruce in the foundation planting. 10 points if they were spiral. For anyone who is ready to pounce on this as an arbritrary rule imposed by the instructor, don't bother. He would accept it, if you had could justify putting them there. If he hadn't imposed the rule, 3/4 of the class would do it, a la the ham story.

If you really like boxwood, (I do) and promise not to shear it into tight little meatballs, but rather hand prune as needed to maintain a nice fluffy natural shape, go for it. I'd probably use plants that are more informal looking.

Your house is attractive, but not a formal style. It's asymmetrical, and I'd like to see something more relaxed than boxwood. From the photo, I don't think you have room for boxwood in the back, azalea in the front. It appears you maybe have room for one or the other, but not both.

Also, the Japanese Maple would have to be a fairly small one to fit on the right side of the planting, if you plant something in front of it, you won't be able to see it. If you go with the Maple, keep the front row low.

For me boxwoods and azaleas go with the style of your house...sort of buttoned-up, although not strictly formal. A nice sports coat and khakis versus a tuxedo. I agree whole heartedly with Saypoint's suggestion to not shear, but to encourage a less stiff form. Annual color will also be nice.

About the dwarf alberta spruce. IRONICALLY, I was driving around yesterday, doing errands, taking kids to sports and such, and was struck by all the lumpy,dumpy conifers that people have flanking their front doors. How unattractive, I thought. Turns out, those lumpy, dumpy, things are dwarf alberta spruces. They are ubiquitous in suburban Connecticut, for reasons that are beyond me. Their form, other than perhaps at the nursery, is very inelegant; they look like a bloated woman in too tight pants with lumps and bumps everywhere.

They are NOT a good look, in my opinion. I would strongly encourage you look at other options before Saturday. There are SOOOO many lovely conifers...junipers, hemlocks, false cypress, even arborvitae and yews. There are conifers with lovely needles, and lovely cones; even berries; conifers with elegant shapes and unique colors. There must be something else.

Patty

My foundation beds aren't too far off from yours--japanese holly and azaleas (plus some other stuff), but my beds are 8 and 12 feet deep. How deep are your beds? From the picture they don't look anywhere near as deep as mine and I don't see how all that can fit in there over the long term. I agree about the alberta spruce--they always seem to have a big brown spot on them.

My question to everyone on the proposed landscaping design is how should the landscaping address the asymetry in the house design or should it? My eye is drawn to the front right lantern. Would a strong vertical element like the 6' spruce or a flagpole help to unify the front or make it more asymetrical?

Off-topic; I like the pillasters and sunburst pediment. Builders in our area are starting to add such architectural details, as the market gets a little tighter.

I'm not sure what to do now. I do like the spirals and I do think they will look nice, as common as they might be. The Japanese Maple will be small around 3-4'. And the boxwoods and azaleas should fit, I have 4-1/2 feet. I'm only putting 2 on one side and 3 on the other. I can plant a few interesting flowers for the spring. I'm not a designer and am not spending 7-10,000 on landscaping. I did say I am a novice and want my house to look nice with some simple trees/shrubs. I know my house isnt formal and I didnt think its character was up for grabs. I just thought that someone out there could help with suggestions not criticims.

This may well be the post that turns this forum around, what zshopper wants is "suggestions not criticims". The suggestion is "go to a nursery and buy some stuff" the helpfull advice seen here as "criticims"is to cast a wider net. What should we do?

OK - here's the deal. You hired a landscaper, he presented you with some rudimentary plans and a plant list and you have pretty much decided what is going where and have now asked of the forum if this "sounds like a plan?". Sure, it's plan. Is it a good one? Maybe yes, depending on your view; maybe no, if you want something beyond the mundane and commonplace.

Did you ask for suggestions, as in the "what should I plant INSTEAD of the boring Alberta spruce" realm of suggestions? I don't think so and so it is a bit uncalled for now to snap back at us when your "sounds like a plan?" plea is as strong a request for critique/criticism as it gets. And exactly who's approval needs to happen before Saturday? Ours? Yours to the landscaper? Do whatever you want.....not sure why you bothered with us in the first place. Sheesh!!

Just wondering, zshopper: If everything was in place and you were so sure that it would look nice, why did you bother to ask for approval? It seems kind of odd to me.

Also, when people referred to your home as asymetrical rather than formal, this wasn't an insult to its character - it's just part of the description. I like my asymetrical house.

Good luck on Saturday,

Annie

Saying your house is formal or not formal is not a criticism of the character of your house. Designers always consider the style, shape, size, and flavor of the house when they design landscaping to complement it. Some plantings will make your house look even better than it already does. Some will do nothing. Others may detract from its appeal if poorly designed.

If you mean that the boxwoods will be in the "back row" and the azaleas will be in front of them, 4.5 feet is not enough. Ask the landscaper how big the plants will be in 5 or 10 years, and give them enough space to reach that size, allowing at least a foot between the full sized shrub and the house siding. 18 inches is even better. You have to get back there from time to time to clean, paint, wash windows, etc., and shrubs against the house will cause the siding to deteriorate a lot more quickly than if there is air circulation back there. It's also better for the shrubs.

In case he tells you that you can trim the boxwood and azaleas to stay small, that's true. But a) it makes more maintenance work for you; b) is not the best thing for the long term health of the shrub and c) most shrubs look best if they are allowed to attain their natural form, which can be extremely graceful and a beautiful thing to see.

Dwarf Alberta Spruce are really overused, get fairly large (check it out and see if you have the space) and are prone to infestation by spider mites. There are so many more attractive plants available, that I don't know why anyone would want a green gumdrop in their yard, but hey, if you like it, it's your yard.

There is absolutely no reason why a planting of really well chosen plants should cost you any more than a ho-hum selection. The only difference might be that a skilled designer would charge you for the time involved in creating a design. I suspect this guy is doing the design for free and will be paid to plant it?

You were looking for approval of the plan, and you're disappointed that some of us think you can do a lot better. That would probably be true no matter what the project was. If you're happy with the plan, and need to get the plantings in right away, go ahead and do it. You'll have plenty of time later on to think about it, see how you like it, and make changes if you want to. They're plants, not poured concrete, and can be moved to another part of the yard if they don't work out.

It can be harsh to have complete strangers weigh in on something as personal as one's home. I personally feel that people who post pictures on this forum are brave. As a reward for that bravery they will receive some very high quality, some very honest, some brutal, and some helpful advice.

You are making an investment of time and energy and money. You are obviously a thoughtful person who is willing to go the extra mile to achieve an end result that is pleasing. The input given here is also intended to give you the best end result.

Having said that, let me also add that I wonder about having shrubs right in front of those low windows to the right. Do you really want the shrubs on the right to be the same height as the shrubs on the left, given that the windows are at such different heights? Personally I wouldn't. I would go with the Japanese maple and some lovely low ground cover...interspersed with spring bulbs and summer color.

Let me say again, though, that I like the idea of the azaleas and the boxwoods. So that there is a continuity between the two sides, you could possibly put the same azaleas and boxwoods along the walk way on the right.

Patty

Saypoint and barefootinct these were the kind of suggestions I was looking for. I didnt come to this thread for any other reason but for that. Enough said I think you are right about too many shrubs as I measured again my room is limited. What do you think of mountain fire adromedas in between a boxwood and on the right side one boxwood (smaller one) and an adromeda. My husband loves the azaleas but I think there will be too many. As I'm researching there seems to be a very light green shrub, (I dont know the name of it but will find out) alternating with the azaleas might be nice. (I'm trying not to mish mosh the landscaping) If when placing the shrubs and we think we purchased too many the landscaper will take them back. If everyone hates spiral spruces what else can I put on the sides of the steps? My time is limited and the reason why I chose them was because not many people have them in my area and they are slow growing. And they look neat. I used to have large holly bushes which pinched us when entering the house. About the Japanese maple he said a cut leaf maple would be nice, now I have no idea what that is and I also wanted your opinions on the maple. On the left side I didnt want a spruce of any kind but again my area is limited and the sprinkler system is housed in that area. Thanks for your help.

You should google every plant he suggests and read about it. Size, light and moisture requirements, diseases and pests, appearance, color, etc.

A cutleaf J. maple is just that, it has lacy looking leaves.

Don't alternate plants. You can have the azaleas and boxwoods if you want, but put them together in groups. You don't want them to look like beads on a chain, though the narrowness of the planting area is going to contribute to that look somewhat regardless of what you plant there.

Look up the cultivars of the boxwood and azalea he is proposing. Find out how big they get. There are a lot of different cultivars or varying sizes. The andromeda is going to get more than 6 ft. tall and wide in time, or larger.

Can you make the beds deeper? You'll have a lot more options if you do. If not, make sure you use plants that won't outgrow the space.

I agree about the windows on the right, skip the shrubs in front of the windows unless you can find something that will stay below the sill height, or the room inside will have no natural light at all.

Andromeda is a lovely shrub and there are many cultivars, some of them dwarf that may fit your space better. Some cultivars grow very slowly so it might not matter if you get one that will eventually be too large--by that time you may have to replace your siding and want to re-landscape anyway. I had one that was about 30 years old that was only a 4 ft. ball.

I personally don't mind the "beads on a chain" look. One of the prettiest hedges I've seen was of alternating rhododendron and pieris andromeda..."stop-your-car-and-look" lovely when in full bloom. The house is on a corner lot and the hedge wraps the two sides on the streets.

If you have plenty of sun, you may want to investigate knock out roses--they aren't too far off from azaleas in look, are also easy care, but will bloom themselves silly all summmer long (as opposed to a few messy weeks in the spring). I would definitely trade in my azaleas for the roses but I only get 4 hours of sun in that area.

Here is a link that might be useful: andromeda choices

It's a cute house, but right now it's not really relating to the lot. As I look at the house, it's one very flat plane, and the cobble-edged beds tucked right up to the foundation aren't helping any. If it were my house, I'd lose the cobble edging and enlarge the beds. A nice tree, like an upright Japanese maple, would be great in the curve between the walk and the beds. Again, just a little depth so that you feel a little transition between the street and the house. Down the road, an arbor across the garage and painted to match the trim would be killer...

As to the Albertas, we have a 6-footer in the nursery that my boss keeps trying to pawn off on me, and I've told him I'd only take it if he throws in some birches. To me, as they get older they either look dead from spider mite damage, or they get lumpy and look like some third grader made a Christmas tree for mom by stuffing a green sock with lentils. IMHO.

Just my two pennies. I think the confines of the beds you have now are your biggest problem.

That was my biggest question about this project. Are you making the beds deeper? My foundation beds are 7' deep and that barely gives me room for one row of shrubs and one row of perennials. If you are going with two rows of shrubs then it seems like you would want these beds to be 9 or more feet deep.

Did you say want zone you are in? Zone 6 or 7 starts to open up your options as far as evergreen shrubs.

The post by isabella brings up a good point. A grouping of 3 or 4' tall shrubs might look good on the left, but those same shrubs would block the window on the right. I see the slope and the low window as being a challenge here. I don't know how to create a planting that seems balanced, minimizes the look of the slope and does not block that window. A good designer should be able to come up with some ideas.

- Brent

Zshopper no personal affront intended.

My question was merely intended to understand how the house and landscape must intertwine together in a design. I realize now that starting a separate thread would have been more appropriate.

I'm not an LA, LD, or LC; I'm an LN (landscape novice).

zshopper, you are putting yourself under a lot of pressure to be on this timeline for advice when you are at your current level. You getting some good discussion about things that can be very helpful to you but over a period of time, not necessarily by Saturday, since it appears that you are going to want to confirm/affirm each point--this shrub? what about this? That will drive you crazy. It doesn't really work well to be doing that (with random forum advice) essentially during installation and so that is the source of some of the tension. You see, your landscaper is appealing to you with a "finished" bing/bang product and it is unlikely that you will achieve the bing/bang I'm done sense in a few hours of forumizing at this point in your gardening experience.

You have an interest in doing things "right", you know some of the things you like, but naturally are uncertain and need more information as well as experience to make some of these decisions yourself. Are you in a position to take a breather of a few weeks on the installation and to review with your person? Did you want to try to get someone different? If not then Saypoint's advice of just do it and chalk some up to experience may be best.

A middle ground is to install a few LESS items based on the concerns about the depth of the beds--one row instead of 2, but placed correctly for size, maintenance, room againsts house--stick with the masses of several shrubs of one kind whenever possible as suggested, rather than dotting, and the LATER add something in front of them, either small enough or by expanding the beds outward. You can add various annuals or containers for color at any time. This allows you to develop your "foundation" while spending a little less on plant material that you're unsure of and may not need. The things you describe can be easily purchased in reasonably large sizes and planted yourself later if desired. I would certainly omit the Alberta spruces if you are being charged a lot for them because they really are not worth being the focal point or mainstay of your design, but if you'd be willing to chuck them in a couple of years you could go ahead. However with this approach you may not feel that your landscape is properly "finished."

Good luck!

The wonderful thing about your property is that you have plenty of room to expand your foundation plantings. You are so lucky not to have a home where the builder installed a straight, concrete walkway from driveway to front steps, having it parallel your house and leaving only 3 or 4 feet for foundation plantings. It appears that the edging of your foundation border is not poured in place. You could easily remove some sod and add depth to your foundation plantings. That's what I would do if I owned your home. By doing that and using a good designer (or learning a lot more about design on your own), you could have a gorgeous front yard.

I wouldn't worry either about the downslope on the right side of your home. I think it adds interest. In fact, I would fill all or most of that curved lawn area on the right side of your home with plants, using at least one smallish ornamental tree, an outcropping of largish boulders, and a variety of shrubs, grasses and perennials.

As for upright spirals flanking the door, I like them. Maybe that's because they are seldom used where I live. That seems to be more common in the east.

I agree with what others said about using Alberta Spruce on the left corner. There are so many other choices. Discuss the comments you received here with your landscaper and push him to come up with other choices for that corner.

Alternating plants: No! I have no doubt that the corner border described by Spunky looks beautiful, but it is probably the exception to the rule. With a large corner lot and a hedge wrapping around two sides of the street, those property owners have more leeway than you do with your foundation plantings.

Amazing what education I've gotten in a couple of days. Well I must eat crow, you guys were right and I was wrong. When you dont know much about something especially plants/trees you just look at what is pleasing to the eye and not the ramifications of large growth. Now this is what I learned today, hope all of you agree. I went to a local nursery and a designer was there and she said she had some time to help me (even though I didnt pay her for her expertise). She suggested on each side of the door, 3 boxwood grouping-1 American triangle 36"-1 Korean 24" (snowball)-1 korean small er snowball. Set them up as a triangle. The left side put 2 large azaleas and on the corner left a Blue Maid Holly, 5 ft. On the other side similiar 1 large azalea after the boxwood grouping then instead of a Jap maple (which she said grows too large) she suggested a smoke bush (standard) which doesnt grow large and looks like a tree, she said she tries to add color and the color is deep burgandy. Looks very pretty. She showed me a new plant its called dwarf hydrangea (pink purple flowers) but it is so tiny and so pretty, she suggested putting that inbetween. She did say I should pick up the belgium blocks and make the landscape larger but the blocks cost a lot to put in and they are cemented and even though it is a good idea, I know I cant do that too. We have spent so much money on the house this month its time to relax and enjoy, it seems that when we finish one thing we start another and I'm tired now. I know this is long, but let me know if you think I've done my homework, because my quiz is tomorrow and my test is on Sat. Oh one more thing, red mulch or brown (gee I know what you are going to say already) brown real/red fake.

Sounds like a plan to me. And get the brown mulch, not the red, for sure.

Much better. I'm glad you didn't just get pi$$ed off and go away mad. Some people do. The new plan sounds nice. It's funny, but I actually thought about Cotinus for your planting earlier.

Too bad you can't move the blocks. Maybe in a couple of years, if you think you're still interested in tweaking the plantings, you can enlarge the beds if you want to. Boxwood and azaleas are easy to move if necessary.

Un-dyed natural color mulch. It's to keep down weeds, retain moisture, and add organic matter to the soil as it slowly breaks down. I don't know when people got the idea that it was a decorative feature, but that red stuff shouldn't be used anyplace that isn't a gas station.

Sounds nice. I love the idea of the smoke bush. And the slight asymetry sounds right. And I still think azaleas and boxwoods will work nicely with your house. I think you'll be happy with the results and proud of the fact that you went the extra, exhausting, mile. Show us a picture when it's done.

Too bad about the stones. But I know what you mean about doing one thing to the house and then finding out there are about 10 other things you have to do next. You paint the ceiling and suddenly you discover the walls look dingy and then the hallway looks old and before you know it, you're having to paint the entire house. And then you have to get new furniture. And re-do the floors. It's the same way with landscaping, I fear.

No red mulch! Gives me the heebie-jeebies.
Patty

I've been up since 5 a.m. drawing out a plan. I feel like I had a crash course and am happy that I somewhat educated myself, I think it is going to pay off. I traced my house, outlined it and circled out each bush, color coded where the placement of each will go. Soooo at 2 today I'm picking out all the plants, not sure what size the blue maid holly will be, I'm really excited about the smoke bush standard, I like the burgandy color. After all this I have to start on the annuals, any suggestions?

The new plan sounds very attractive to me. How about some heuchera at the feet of the shrubs here and there--it will echo the color of the smokebush and complement everything else, plus it should come back every year (not sure what zone you are in). Then you can add whatever annuals catch your eye and makes you feel happy at the nursery. I'm linking one heuchera here that is easy to find at a reasonable price...I have "stormy seas" that I like even better (but it might be hard to find in your stores).

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:28063}}

NOT THE RED MULCH!!!! ;-) I agree that the new plan sounds more realistic and interesting (though I could not quite understand what was going on with the boxwoods...a total of 6 right?). You may need a male pollinator such as 'Blue Stallion' in your yard if you want a good show of berries on your holly, but you can wait and see if there is already a pollinator close by.

- Brent