Can you post pics and a plan?

Well it sounds like a hodgepodge to me. You are trying to do too much Fern. Even if you miniaturise everything and only grow bonsai lettuce I can't see a veg patch. Not to upset the hosta mafia but hosta are often grown to fill space which you don't have alot of. What do you want to do out there, pretend it is bigger or what?

I would urge you to locate a copy of SMALL GARDENS by Peter McHoy. It is published by Barnes and Noble so probably can be found in their stores if they have expanded to Canada. An excellent book. It should be an eye opener for you and greatly assist your planning.

The first step, I recommend, is to ruthlessly purge EVERYTHING in your yard. Everything. All of the pots and containers, garden bric-a-brac and furnishings. You don't have to throw it out (save the truly good things, and toss the junk and broken items), just remove it and store it in crates or the back of your truck or somewhere that is not the yard.

Second, get the book Nandina recommended Peter McHoy is a popular British garden personality who has produced loads of gardening books. I also recommend Truly Tiny Gardens, by Thomasina Tarling, a fine garden designer. She has great photos and ideas for spaces as small as a balcony and as "large" as a traditional townhouse courtyard.

Small gardens are challenging, but you can get a big impact, plus living space you never know you had, if you do it right.

I have the same situation, townhouse with tiny yard. It could or could not be a hodge podge, depends on that ever crucial element of design. In addition to the good books mentioned above, there's also a book called 'Townhouse Gardening' or something like that. I like the "Small Gardens Book."

Here's some ideas I copied off of an HGTV Web site. They mirror my actual experience.

-In a smaller garden details really matter. You notice immediately what works and what doesn't. High-quality materials and good workmanship stand out.

-Avoid bulky furniture; airy materials such as wrought iron and teak will seem to take up less space.

-Every plant has to earn its keep in a small space, so choose plants that offer a show in more than one season. Include evergreens for winter interest.

-Strong structures and simple designs are crucial in a small space so that the area doesn't look too busy.

Below is a link to designer Keith Davitt's Web site. I go there for inspiration.

I hope to post more pics of my yard in spring. I'm just finishing a major rehab. Sadly will be moving this year.

Here is a link that might be useful: The portfolio of Keith Davitt

Small Gardens seems to be sold out at BN.com, McHoy has several others on this topic though.

Helen Dillon is another well-known author who writes about small gardens. She's a fabulous garden designer who has an extremely small garden in Dublin. Garden Artistry: Secrets of Designing and Planting a Small Garden is excellent.

And if you get HGTV, you might want to watch Matt James' "The City Gardener" for inspiration. It's British gardens, so the plant choices are probably not zone-appropriate for you; but he does wonderful things in very tiny spaces.

I've bought a number of magazines for Keith Davitt's articles. He's amazing...

Thanks for the feedback. Right now a picture is not in the cards I'm kind of techno-illiterate. I was kind of hoping for a Cottage garden type concept with a little pottager thrown in - I coined the phrase "pottager". I want to keep my Francis Williams Hosta - I've had it for about 15 years and my Carmen Jewel cherry bush - which I'm training into a tree and my pride and joy LUPINS. I could grow my veggies in a container I guess - but I've only had success with cucumbers in the ground. I want the space to be restful and easy to maintain but do want to have a bit of production. I'm at lease moving away from my rectangles and boxes and adding curves into my landscape. I will try to find someone to help me post pictures

Fern

I think your plan sounds quite reasonable and I don't think you are making that many demands of your space. You seem quite clear on what you want. You can cram a lot into the little space, especially if you use some of the vertical space as it sounds like you are doing. Consolidating multiple containers into a bed or raised planter definitely sounds like a good thing.

>I'm at lease moving away from my rectangles and boxes and adding curves into my landscape.

What's so bad about rectangles and what's so good about curves? Curves can be very tricky, especially in a small space, where they often are more accurately descibed as squiggles. Nothing wrong with clean lines, especially as they relate to other shapes in the landscape: walls, fences, windows...

The strong form of rectangular beds smoothed by plants overflowing the edges is often more pleasing than amorphous (rounded triangular bed?) shapes with the same spill-over.

The semi-circle sounds appealing, but when you add the octagon, the peninula and the rounded triangle I'm afraid you start to lose ... something.

I agree with digging. BIG rectangles have a very different effect than dinky ones...

The curved lines concept came from an artistic friend who used my garden hose to design an S that stretched at an angle from my gate to 4 feet from the side of my step. The top part of the S will be my new perennial bed with the bottom half being the semi-circular patio. The small bed that I've talked about will be at the top of the S beside the Gate - it isn't a complete triangle but the walk mirrors the top of the S to form a walkway and small corner bed - does this make sense? The perennial bed curves around behind the patio and continues to the step - the whole patio has a diameter of between 5 and 6 feet and the walkway blends into it. Val wanted to get me away from my straight lines because I was trying to do too many little boxes and rectangles etc. Hope this mad some sense

Fern

Hey Fern!

Here's a link to another thread in this forum, which addresses the topic of curves. It would be interesting to see it develop. (I wasn't too sure if you had noticed it).

Personally, I think that the "error" (it's not severe, but I just lack a better word) in your old design (and this is what I think your friend was getting at) is that you were trying to do to much. And it's not confined to rectangles alone. Too many curves and changes in direction can be just as confusing or convoluted as too many rectangles.

Unfortunately, in a small space (and I suppose, in any other case), curves must be just as well planned as straight lines. You want them to be curved enough to look intentional and to have enough impact, but not too much to become to harsh or too much.

-Audric

Audric, this keeps reminding me of your '1000 cubic feet Fantasy Garden' assignment. You did a sketch that was really interesting, but I don't think we saw the end product. It was about what one would design with no restriction but space. I think. The thread was called '1000 cubic feet Fantasy Garden.'

Anyway, someone (Pam?) said it could be thought of as a vignette.

Anyway, some of the thoughts there might apply here.

Maro

Maro, that is exactly the thread! Although it failed to launch, it did provoke some interesting discussion as to what could be done in a tiny space (other than a tree in a corner!) Let me find it...

....

Here it is!

One thing (I think!) I was trying to address is a tendancy, which I think is common, to reduce everything when working in small spaces. So I was trying to see what people would prioritize when given such extreme conditions.

I suppose like in a display garden, i.e. for a garden show, you have to be extremely concise in getting across your message. It could be likened to the essay writing of gardening (or, perhaps in a more vulgar manner, to a woman's skirt): it has to be long enough to cover everything sufficiently, but short enough to keep things interesting.

When space is limited, then, some things will have to go. Of course, multi-function items/spaces can greatly decrease the number of things which have to be cut from the list. I suppose that's also why 10-function multi-process chopper-dicer-blender-juicer-puréer-selfcleaning-icecream makers are all the rage.

I guess, long story short, is that one must concentrate and put great emphasis on what few elements are in a small-space garden. Each item in the garden should be working towards the common goal (or vision, or purpose, as it may be called) of the garden as a whole. Otherwise, it would not only be superfluous, but also detrimental.

To paraphrase (probably incorrectly) Stewie Griffin, from Family Guy: "You know, Brian, a corporation is a lot like a centipede. It only works when all the legs are moving towards the same direction. And you know what you are Brian? You're a busted set of legs."

Sorry for the rambling post, but it's mainly some food for thought (and me thinking out loud).

-Audric

If it's JUST an S with nothing more, that could be great for the space, very simple. Anything more would be a bit crazy. *g*

>I coined the phrase "pottager"

You may have rights to that word, but take out a 't' and search the web for "potager garden" and you will find lots of hits. There is a Potager Gardens forum here at GW. Wikipedia defines Potager Garden as:

"A potager garden is a French method of creating ornamental vegetable or kitchen gardens. Often flowers (edible and non-edible) and herbs are planted with the vegetables to enhance the beauty. The goal is to make the function of providing food aesthetically pleasing.

Plants are chosen as much for their functionality as for their color and form. Many are trained to grow upward. A well-designed potager can provide food, cut flowers and herbs for the home with very little maintenance. Potagers can disguise their function of providing for a home in a wide array of forms--from the carefree style of the cottage garden to the formality of a knot garden."

- Brent

Hi Brent - "pottager" came from when I was looking on the "potager forum but I kept thinking that I wanted to somehow encorporate the "potager" with a Cottage style - so "pottager". I love the formal nature of some of the potager gardens but in my cramped space I will have to mix and match more of a cottage style. Make sense?

Audic - thanks for the link to your "fantasy garden"

Everyone has given lots of great advice and by popping into lots of different forums I've been reading ideas that I never thought of asking about.

My S is now outlined [in orange spray paint] and I'm feeling a little more secure about the design. Next I'll have to figure out how to do the planting in my big new perennial bed.

Fern

Today I saw Practical Small Gardens by Peter McHoy on the Waldenbooks bargain book section for $5.99.

Here is a link that might be useful: an online place

On rereading your original description the only thing that I might wonder about is the inclusion of an octagon with the theme of curves and semi-circles. I think the important thing about curves is that they have continuity and fluidity. Ending a curve at an octagon could be jarring, given the square space which already adds a geometric form.

Also, if you're at the point only of painting your S, and still have hardscape to install, then it is probably too soon to start planting. You may find that as you lay your patio, for instance, your layout changes a bit. If you must plant to keep the plants alive as summer advances, then sink the pots in to keep them cooler and moist; unless you like moving plants, planting should be last. Really really last.

Okay...sounds like potager gardening is not new to you...some of those gardens are quite pretty. I have peaked at the "Square Foot Gardening" forum before. I am not sure it is quite as attractive but those guys claim to be able to squeeze a lot of production out of a small area. I am thinking that it would be cool to create a 2x2 or 3x3 plot for each of my kids.

BTW, I am having a hard time envisioning your space. That is mostly because I don't understand where the gate and steps are located. What type of fence do you have? BTW, search the forums for "post picture" and you should find plenty of info.

- Brent

My new curvy sidewalk and patio have been poured - yippee - it really does look GOOD - even if I do say so myself. I'm going to work on the photo concept with a friend who has a digital camera. My small bed on one side of the sidewalk will be finished today [I hope] 8 x 2-5 ft with a Francis WIlliams Hosta, Monkshood, Japanese Painted Fern, Globe flower, Lupin, Miniature burning bush and hens and chicks. I'm going to "mirror" the edge of my new bed with Globe flower, lupins, hosta & hens and chicks to try to create the illusion that the walk cuts through 1 bed - hopefully that will make the entire yard seem like one large 17 x 17.5 ft bed with a walk and patio in it. I'm hoping to include a few "specimen" plants like a hydrangea, peony and my Cherry bush. I also bought a bugbane - brunette to provide some height at the back of my new oval [8 x 11 ft] part shade area. This is fun and now that it is starting to come together I think that it is going to look really good - neighbours at the condo have been asking how they can do the same thing. My little octagone raised bed is actually looking good with a trellis behind it for Scarlet runner beans and cucumbers in the front which should spill over the edge and trail onto the patio. I'm so excited and need to thank you all for advice

I am looking forward to seeing the pictures. Miniature burning bush? You are not talking about the 8' tall Euonymus alata 'compacta' are you?

- Brent

No - I am safe from anything that big. I had planted this little burning bush in the front of my townhouse about 7 years ago - it was in between 2 front steps and got zero sun. It still isn't any bigger than when I put it in. I think that it is really stunted and it kind of looks like a bonsai tree - the root ball was only the size of a small toy football. I've given it a new home in a sunny location in the "finished" bed and don't think that it will take off. I will however keep a close eye on it for any growth activity.

I actually finished planting the small bed last night and now only need to mulch it - now on to the area closest to my townhouse