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newbie warning: developing a budget

20 years ago

OK, now that I've read the "newbie" thread and you've put the fear of g%d in me to dare to post on this forum... I post the following with great trepidation...

I *tried* to do my research before having the audacity to pollute your lovely forum with my "newbieness", but there is one subject I simply can not get the most BASIC of help with. Maybe I'm just "googling" the wrong terms. Tell me where to turn and I'll return to "read only" status. I promise!

When I look at beautiful landscape design, how can I get even the most ROUGH idea of how much it cost? I see lots of pretty pictures from landscape architects on their websites, but they never have "This is what we did with a budget of $XXK" annotated on them. I'm not talking about accuracy of more than ONE significant digit here! But when I see a "pretty front yard" in my neighborhood, I have no idea whether I am looking at $10K or $100K worth of landscape! I want to have this two-foot tall wall we have going up the driveway (made of ugly pink blocks) covered in an engineered stone facade as part of the plan. Home Depot wants $7 a square foot for the material. I can do that math. But I tried to discuss it with the guy who clears our brush every year (the closest to a "landscaper" I could find) and all he will say is "Ooohhhh, hardscape is EXPENSIVE!" Huh? Am I misunderstanding what is involved here? What do bricklayers get an hour? I can understand the complexities of engineering a new wall... but an existing one? What part of the puzzle am I missing?

Web sites discuss budget in only the most vague of terms: "Ten percent of your home cost". Well, I'm in Southern CA... are we talking about the $250K I paid for the house only a few years ago or the $1M it's worth today? And what does the selling price of my home have to do with what I pay for landscape anyway (except for resale strategies, of course)? I guess I am looking for some guidelines like "a patio made of this material runs XX-XX a square foot", "a sprinkler system for this type of design runs between $XX-XX per square yard", etc.

The closest I came was a web site that gave out landscape awards for "under $30K" and "30K-100K" But that had only three designs. Is there a site out there that has designs and their itemized budgets posted in an archive?

I'm looking for some kind of general guideline that can help me determine if I'm being quoted something reasonable or not. I figured when I couldn't get a landscaper to return my phone calls when I stated my first guess at a budget, I must have been way out of line ;-) Is there some web site where I can get a *general* idea if my budget will buy me a broken down Ford Escort or a Mercedes? I'm not looking for the cheapest way to do something... just don't want to walk into this project with the word "SUCKER" written across my forehead!

So, where can a newbie go to get a general idea of what kind of landscaping I can expect to get for my money? I've never tried to "buy" anything before feeling so much in the dark and at the mercy of a contractor. When we had a remodeling project done, I had an insurance company's guidelines on "drywall usually runs this much a square foot" to help me get an idea of what to expect.

Thanks in advance to anyone willing to point me to some resources.

Comments (9)

  • 20 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I'm a newbie too and I'm going through what you're going through. I'm calling contractors out to the house to give me bids, that's where I'm getting my numbers from. Everything seems to be in multiples of $5000. $15,000 for the driveway, $15,000 for a wall, $5000 for a patio, $5000-$10000 for paths. Eyechiwawa!

  • 20 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    There are so many variables that any price would be a guess. I have quoted for jobs that someone else has priced at half as much and someone else at twice as much. The first thing you need is a specification that outlines exactly what is to be done and how, materials, methods, warranty, permits and so on. This is the document that you offer out to bid and the only way that the prices that come back can be compared. The specification forms the basis of the contract wherein the contractor is saying "I will do this for this amount of money" and offer up his terms and you will be saying "I will pay this amount of money for doing this".

  • 20 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Ink is right. The price depends on how the job is done. Even for a planting, the size of the plants at installation may vary, the quality of the plants, the way they're planted, if they're mulched and with what kind of mulch, there are so many variables.

    It's sort of like asking how much it will cost to add a bathroom. How big? Tile or marble? $100 toilet or $1000 toilet? Radiant heat under the floor? Whirlpool tub or low end composite bathtub? What kind of windows, and what level of quality? Then there is the experience of the builder to consider. You may not save money in the long run if you have your brother-in-law's neighbor do the job instead of an established builder with experience and a reputation for quality work (and correspondingly higher prices for labor).

    If you know anyone who has a completed landscape project that you like, and are well enough acquainted to feel comfortable asking what something like that might cost, you may be able to get an idea. I could show you pictures of my landscape projects and tell you what I paid for them, but I live on the other side of the country, and prices here may not reflect prices where you are.

    You can probably get some landscapers to give you directions to installed jobs that you can look at, but this is the busy season for landscaping in many places, so you may have to wait a while.

  • 20 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    The only thing that comes to mind that might help you is - look into new developments and see what their landscape package costs and what it will give you. Sometimes, if they have some unusual features, those are stated separately as line items.
    For specifically for your wall, ask HD how much their contractors would charge.

  • 20 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Actually, this is exactly where the designer comes in. Do you have a budget, what can you realisticaly afford to spend (most of the time cheap prices does mean cheap workmanship, unless you have the skills for DIY) and do you have a PLAN? Find a designer that you like and will work with you and then pay to have a plan drawn up. The expense of getting the plan IS really worth it (you have a starting point to compare apples to apples.) The designer will also give you an install quote, so you can know ballpark figures very quickly. I know you want to do this as inexpensively as possible, we all do, but the first step is the plan, you are paying for knowledge and experience, it is not a waste of money.
    NN

  • 20 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    from one newbie to another :) ...
    When I was doing my pool as owner/builder, I did an overall plan with specs listed and faxed this to the concrete guy, the plaster guy, the tile guy, etc... Go to your local rock place that sells the rock you like and get a list of their recommended contractors. Then, fax your plans to the people and start getting bids.

    Also, given you are in So CA, you could buy the material and then hire the group of Border Bros standing near Home Depot. They're cheap and you just point to what you want. :)

    Nicole

  • 20 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    This doesn't have to be so hard to figure out, there are sources of information available to the public that list all the current installed costs that architects and landscape architects use to determine estimates of cost for their designs. Unfortunately I don't remember off hand what the exact title of this book,(updated yearly) is, but your local landscape contractor association should be able to give you the name of this book, and your local library might have it.

    Most homeowners radically underestimate the costs of installed landscaping, and seem to think that 5000 dollars ought to be enough to do a whole front yard. It may very well be if all you are doing is rudimentary plantings, lawn from seed and no irrigation system in southern California, and install it yourself. Labor is usually half the cost of the total job for most trades involved in landscaping, and calls to local contractors should be able to get basic answers to square foot average costs for lawn, irrigation, planting, lighting, etc. I recall 10 years ago that a very basic developer installed landscape package with no bells and whistles was averaging $3.75 to $5 a square foot installed, but this was for projects of large scale, and obviously did not include any hardscape elements.

    I would highly recommend hiring a landscape designer or architect to give you a consultation to get a better idea of costs in your area, and you should be able to pay for an hour or two of their time and get some very realistic idea of costs. You could also price materials at a landscape supply company or your local big box store to get material costs, and double this to include labor to install. If you want the convenience and peace of mind of hiring someone who is fully insured and fully compliant with labor laws, you will probably need to double the material costs. When the California cost of remodeling a kitchen can easily exceed $70,000, the cost of landscaping will not seem so costly by comparison.

    It may seem that landscape designers and contractors are sometimes sensitive to answering these sorts of questions, it is often because homeowners don't do any ititial legwork to get this information beforehand, and act insulted when they ask and are answered with realistic costs. The bottom line is, that designers and contractors also face the same high costs of living here and doing business here, and are not in the habit of giving their services away for free. Information is valuable, and you should expect to pay for it if you don't have a clue, and aren't willing to research it.

    I would not advise you to get a plan and specifications for installation in advance of working out a budget first. That is out of sequence to my way of thinking. The 10% of house value is more of a resale value question, implying that a well designed and installed landscape will add this amount of value to the market price of a house, and will usually result in a much quicker sale in a tough buyer's market such as we are in currently.

    I don't mean to sound cranky about all this, but hope that it is helpful. I personally am well beyond the days of working with first time or inexperienced homeowners with tight budgets, although I still do such projects for good friends. Ask your neighbors for the costs of their gardens, and get out there and price materials, and then ask your questions to this forum when you have more specifics in hand, you will get much more appropriate answers...

  • 19 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Al, that was a very helpful and informative post. It should be added to the Landscaping FAQ! (and if there isn't one -- I don't come here very often, I admit -- there oughta be!)