Grant, GARDEN DESIGN ILLUSTRATED discusses this. Check used book dealers.

Good general arrangement is evergreens on ends with deciduous between them and herbaceous, which are mostly near center. Climbers behind herbaceous, on tall solid fence (or ancient wall) you ideally have behind! Failing that, clipped hedge or at least groupings of evergreens.

If going to be all shrubs (as in shrubbery) rather than a mixed border place of herbaceous could be taken by small deciduous shrubs or groundcover shrubs. Making herbaceous plants or small deciduous flowering shrubs like dwarf deutzia, potentilla or Japanese spiraea main feature, in large center section greatly increases interest over all tall shrubs. Including herbaceous plants also makes planting look finished, whereas shrubs alone tends to look like a work in progress. But including a herbaceous component also greatly increases the level of planning and aftercare required.

I'm not sure I'd advocate such a formulaic approach. IME, successful plant combinations - and even a 90' long shrub border is simply a series of combinations - involve a complimentary and contrasting presentation of textures, shapes and colors. I'd focus on several star performers or feature plants and develop combinations around them that incorporate these elements. You can transition between these combos or vignettes by using plants that will blend these elements. Generally, the suggestion is to create layers, so placing larger growing plants as a backdrop and filling in with mid size and lower growing plants in the foreground will provide a sense of depth even if the border is not overly generous. But this is not a hard and fast rule (is anything in garden design?) and sometimes a taller but skinnier plant up front will provide definition or punctuation.

IMO, evergreens, either broadleaf or coniferous, are essential in providing interest, specially in areas with colder winters. If you are choosing them based on mature size and spacing accordingly, you should not have any worries about them shading out other plants.

I realize that this advice is a bit nebulous, but that's rather the nature of this forum :-) One text that I've found helpful to some degree is "The Well-Designed Mixed Garden" by Tracy DiSabato-Aust. While her book focuses on a mixed border, including a good deal of herbaceous material and grasses, there is still a lot of valuable imformation regarding creating pleasing combinations and year round interest that can be garnered. And I too would consider incorporating herbaceous perennials, grasses and groundcovers to fill in and complete the picture.

Thank you both for giving me lots to think about. I hadn't heard of the Grant book, but I think I may have had the DiSabato book out of the library once. Thanks for the book ideas.

I do want to have small medium and large shrubs. I already have a few in place and am trying to add more as I can. So far, I have used two large shrubs, one Viburnum maresii with the horizontal branching that I have enjoyed even when not in bloom and the fall color right now is gorgeous. I can't wait for it to get larger. [g] I also added a Gray Dogwood for the birds and the fall color is also very attractive. It makes a nice large background shrub. I have an Oakleaf Hydrangea which didn't bloom it's first year but hopefully next year it will. That would be very attractive in flower. Right now, it is gorgeous in it's fall color. An Endless Summer hydrangea bloomed beautifully last year but is still small too.

I also have some smaller material already. A Deutzia Nikko, which is that dwarf shrub, you mentioned bboy. Some Heuchera, Hosta, Japanese Painted Fern, Hellebore,Epimedium, Tiarella, Astilbe, Geraniums etc.

I have one Taxus Hicksii and two Blue Hollies, and that is all for evergreen so far, and they are SO small and so slow growing. I almost feel I should fill in with something else around them until they get bigger. I have thought of adding some Ilex glabra and I have some boxwood, I could move into that border. I also have a Red twigged Halo dogwood for variegation and a dark Summerwine Ninebark for a darker color.

I feel I have a good beginning, but putting it all together to me is the least fun part of redoing the border. I think I lean toward being a 'plant collector' rather than a 'designer' by nature. Although, I do love a good design and recognize it when I see it and hate it when it doesn't work, I still feel much less capable of creating the design. I try to get it right the first time, but inevitably I end up moving everything around.

I still don't feel I quite have enough 'star performers'. I would like something that is spectacular in flower. The hydrangeas certainly fit the bill, but I might try to add azaleas. Lacking enough sun for roses or weigelia, I am not sure what else to consider for 'star performers'. I keep trying to find four season shrubs. Also, I wonder how much variegation or dark leaved foliage I should use?

I just looked for those books at the library, and they didn't have the Grant book. I will get the DiSabato book out again and I found quite a few new books on garden design. I used to wait until winter to pore over books and plan next year, but now I do winter sowing and have to make early decisions about what I am growing and where it all is going.

Thanks for your help. :-)

I had a similar project last spring. My situation is a north facing border under small to medium maples and oaks. I ended up using three Canadian Hemlocks to anchor one corner - the opposite corner is more in sun and has a redbud tree, some hydrangeas, and a rose garden.

Between these two ends, the shrubs I used are viburnum maresii, viburnum judii, fothergilla, and oak leaf hydrangea. All but the fothergilla will get good height - I think the fothergilla may only reach 4 ft or so.

The fall colors are spectacular on all of these. Like you, I have some neighbor eyesores to hide, but I didn't want to go with all evergreens.

The shrubs are arranged in mostly 2's and 3's. I have one stand-alone hemlock in the very center and one stand alone oak leaf hydrangea placed near the already existing hydrangeas.

In front of the shrubs are various hostas and irises along with astilbes. I had professional help in creating this border and it was worth every cent.

Good luck!
Elaine

Thanks Elaine, actually maybe that would be a great idea for me, to get some professional help. I wouldn't need much help, since I am choosing my own material and installing ourselves, but just someone to tweak things might be worth it. I always worry about hiring someone, because I am so fussy and have such a specific idea of how I want something to come out even if it is in my head and hard to express. I couldn't leave something to someone else and if I didn't like their ideas, what would be the point. I suppose I am missing something in my thinking that through?

Elaine, love your plant choices, do you have any photos?

:-)

I do have installation-day photos, and they're on the computer, but I don't know how to post them ;-(

Elaine

You might find that screening 90' to a height of 6' while mixing in various sized shrubs and/or trees may be easier and more effective if you start with a background hedge. That will take care of the screening. Then you have a background for your other plants and you take away the need for those other plants to provide strategic screening at the same time. It frees you up to plant groupings that are responding to the needs of your side of the hedge rather than what they are or are not screening behind the property line. You can plant by grouping combinations of plants in rhythm and develop the foreground over time. You could also just add one or two groupings in front of it rather than a continuous border.

Privet is available very early in the spring as a bare root plant which makes it more affordable. You'll have to contact nurseries now to line it up for the spring, if you choose to do it.

ELAINE, I use Tinypic.com that does photo hosting. It is very easy to do. Link below. You can post a photo right into the thread or you can set up a photo album online and link to it. Lots of those photo hosting sites too. I use Tinypic because it just posts from my own computer file and I don't have to put them all on another site. Remember GW retains rights to anything you post.

LAAG, hi, thanks for that suggestion. It sounds like a great strategy that would be perfect in some situations. In my situation, I am doubtful it would fit the bill. Not many hedge shrubs will grow in the area that I need the hedge, which would be under maple tree canopies with little sun and tree roots to contend with. I've had two hollies in place for 4 years and they have barely grown 6 inches. Taxus are slow as well, Boxwood are low and sometimes not too hardy and don't enjoy wind in the winter, which that area has some of. Privet reseeds like crazy and isn't it decidious? The border is also pretty narrow and I would have to reduce an already small patch of lawn to increase the size of it. My property is not really square, but rectangular and longer than wide. It has been a challenge to make a shrub list of any shrubs that would grow under those conditions. A number of gardeners on GW who have similar conditions discouraged me from hoping that I could grow anything well there, but I am pretty stubborn. [g] I would rather try things than give up.

As for not having to plant the whole border, it is not a question of have to, but want to..lol. I do like to collect plants and would find it very easy to fill up a property 10x the size of the one I have. I have a hard time restraining myself from buying one of everything. [g]

It's too bad though. I love privet. I have seen it on a sunny property and it was left unpruned and had grown about 20 feet and was covered with bloom. It was also bordered by a lawn, so the reseeding was not such a problem. I know some people don't enjoy the smell, but I did.

Thanks :-)

Here is a link that might be useful: Tinypic photo

I did want to say, I liked all the ideas offered.

BBOY...I like the idea of evergreens on the ends, and using groupings of evergreens. As I said, I tried hollies that aren't growing much. Are there other evergreens besides hollies, taxus, boxwood, canadian hemlock, that would grow in shade under tree canopies?

I also liked the idea of combinations and groupings interconnected.

GARDENGAL, you mentioned starting with a Star Performer and developing combinations from that. How do you go about doing that? Find a list of shrubs that have similar growing requirements, first, then narrow it down to those that have complimentary texture color etc?

You mention the transitions between combinations and using plants that 'blend the elements'. Can you give me an example?

BTW, ELAINE, I loved the sound of your border. I love all those plants!

:-)

Let me see if I can describe what I mean better. I don't have any just shrub borders of my own - all are mixed - and my plant palette will be quite different from yours, but maybe this will help.

In one area, the "star" is a mature coral bark maple. The immediate grouping includes weigela 'Rubidor' with a similar inseason leaf color and cherry red flowers, Berberis 'Rose Glow', Thuja 'Reingold', oakleaf hydrangea, threadleaf nandina and Spiraea 'Magic Carpet'. The predominate colors are a bright yellowy-green and red/burgundy. There is a contrast in textures with the bold hydrangea foliage, tiny barberry foliage and the soft fluffy thuja and the wispy nandina. I also have assorted perennials in the area that repeat some of this coloring, including a couple of evergreen grasses and grass-like plants that provide a contrasting form. The spiraea (and various spreading perennials) act as the transition plants, tying the shrubs together primarily through their lower height and growth habit but also with the spiraea's variety of foliage colors (there is also a variegated abelia that does the same).

Does this help at all? Sorry I have no photos to share - I really have to get a digital camera soon!! BTW, this is on the north side of the house, but far enough away so that in summer most of the area, except directly under the maple canopy, is in sun.

I am a big fan of starting the design process with evergreens, making a nice framework of conifers and broadleaf evergreens. Not only do these form the bones that you will see all winter, but also they anchor the deciduous shrubs visually all summer. Whether you choose to do evergreen groupings at each end or punctuate groupings of them along the border, I think these are the decisions that have to come first. If you have a look at "Gardening with Conifers" by Adrian Bloom you will find lots of good conifers to use and ideas for arranging them.

The other thing I think useful is to work with the basic shape of each shrub (of each plant in general, as has been mentioned here before) rather than with "it" personally. You can decide, for example, that at this spot you want a tall arching shape and there a rounded one, and then you look at your list of tall arching ones and pick the one with the best foliage to work with the other plants in that section.

It really is a big puzzle... but that's the fun of it!

Since this is a very difficult site, maybe this is a case of starting with the plants, then arranging those plants, instead of starting with a design. I think this is the real problem I'm having with my front foundation plantings. I can design all I want, but then I can't find plants that fit the criteria because what will grow there is very limited.

Unless there is some group of plants I've missed, broadleaf evergreens are out for this border because they won't stand the climate and root competition. Conifers are out because of shade and root competition. Hemlocks are out because of root competition and wooly adelgid. And so it goes.

So is there such a thing as pseudo-evergreens? Plants that from a design criteria mimic evergreens, however are from a different enough genetic background that they don't have the same cultural requirements. Hornbeam perhaps?

Of course, there is so much more to garden design than the mere selection of plants. ;)

Since a stated goal here is to screen unattractive views, prairiemoon2 will want at least one of the following: privacy fencing or sufficient evergreens. There are some evergreens that will tolerate partial shade (i.e. certain yews and hemlocks (the latter may be problematic due to wooly adelgid)) and an arborist might be able thin maple branches enough to let in more light. Root competition, depending on how severe, is a potentially limiting factor, along with general soil quality, acidity and drainage.

It's also important to know just how big your selections will get (Viburnum 'Mariesii' is a fine shrub, but gets large (at least 10 x 10 feet))quickly.

More research and visits to area arboreta to see how they handle shrub borders would be a good idea.

Mad Gallica, you have a point. I have a similar problem too in my front yard; it's hard to find things that will grow. For evergreens under my neighbour's gargantuan conifer, which dominates half my yard, I use several different yews (they range from drooping or spreading to upright), Ruscus, boxwood, Acanthus (not a shrub, but an evergreen perennial, and one that is hard to get rid of so don't plant it unless you know you want it there forever), ferns (often called wintergreen, not evergreen), Nandina, Choisya, euphorbia... there is lots, at least in my zone, but it isn't all the most common stuff.

The conditions definitely influence the design, but I don't think the plant selection part of the process is different; just harder.

I don't know just how difficult the site is that PM has; sounds like more sun than I have at least, and maybe less root competition and debris. Growing conditions might also be more of an issue if you're trying to grow a hedge than if you're planting a varied border, since differential performance is going to be an issue in the former, not so noticeable in the latter.

GARDENGAL, that was a great example. I love the sound of your combinations, I bet they are lovely. :-) Your also on the other coast I see. So you started out choosing a color scheme of sorts and made sure you had contrasting textures. I can see you have spring and summer bloom, fall color and an evergreen. I don't think I am quite getting the shrubs that you are referring to as 'transitional' plants, though. Why would a spiraea or a variegated abelia make it blend the other choices? What are the characteristics of shrubs that blend other shrubs together?

KARIN, I really agree about the evergreens. Right now I don't have one evergreen in my border and it really looks like it is missing something. I definitely want to add some, but I am finding it a challenge to find one that will fit the bill. I am really rigid about not increasing the shade in the yard. I love many plants that grow well in full sun or light shade and the areas in my yard that accomodate that are very minor. Most of what I have is part shade to full shade. Two or three hours of sun in the morning is about it. So to reduce that amount would further limit what I could grow. The only thing I can figure is to put evergreens into the areas that are already full shade and use something under 8ft so it won't create more shade. What fits that bill? Not much. I won't use a Hemlock because of the pest that is a big problem right now, and eventually it would get too tall. Taxus would seem to take forever to be an effective size, so that leaves the Ilexes and the boxwood, I think? Maybe I can find some cultivars that will work.

KARIN, thanks for the book recommendation I will look for that title. It sounds helpful. I do love conifers and I wish I had more sun to use them. Maybe the book will have more ideas. I can't be the only one who ever had this problem. lol

As for your method of thinking about the basic shapes, I was trying that this morning, looking at the border from the second floor windows and trying to imagine what kind of shapes that I would find pleasing. For some reason, all I can picture are rounded shapes. I don't understand it. I am just not good at this! lol I am glad there are those of you who find it fun to help me, because I seem to find my fun in other ways in the garden. :-)

MAD GALLICA...yes, that is what I had to do, start with the plants that would culturally fit that area and now I just need to arrange them. Actually when you put it that way, it sounds like it should be pretty simple to just arrange them. I thought it would be until I tried doing it. [g]

Karin, nice list of alternative plants for your challenging conditions, I will have to look some of them up.

As for my conditions, picture a level 90x10 ft area that has a 50 ft Silver Maple bordering one end, three younger, 40ft silver maples behind the border to the West, one that is within 5ft of it. One horrible reseeding nightmare maple IN the border on the northwest corner, and three spruce trees to the north of it. Most of the border, except for one 16x16 ft area that comes out into the center a little, is in the root zone and under the canopies of the trees. Silver maples are horrible for sucking out every bit of nutrition and moisture. At least in the middle the canopies are high up so that helps.

:-)

Prairiemoon, I'll try to post those pictures later today.

Reading thru the rest of the posts, I recalled another viburnum what stays evergreen and takes shade. I'm trying to remember its name ... maybe "buckwood". this one gets large, has beautiful and very fragrant flowers in the spring. They start off as pink buds and open white.

Elaine

Burkwood viburnum (Viburnum x burkwoodii).

Are those your silver maples or a neighbour's - can you remove them?

As for Yew, different types grow at different rates, I wouldn't just write them off. If you have dry shade they are virtually your best bet. Besides, if they're at least there, even if they're small, they're better than nothing, and hey, they won't throw as much of a shadow. You're being a bit contradadictory if you say that you don't want to produce any shade yet you want fast-growing shrubs, if you see what I mean. But otherwise, yes, that element is controlled by placing them where their shade won't do any harm.

If you can't visualize shapes well, you might just need to browse around a nursery, or through a shrub book or catalogue if you haven't already, for some prompts.

Other options for evergreen might be Viburnum davidii or also Viburnum rhytidophyllum... too lazy to check spelling, common name is leatherleaf viburnum. Fabulous, gets huge, but handles dry shade and can of course be pruned.

Here, leatherleaf viburnum is definitely deciduous, and in similar tree shade, with probably considerably more moisture, extremely slow growing.

Let's see, first you buy all your favourite shrubs because you have enough space to plant them and then you want to arrange them in the alloted space in an "interesting way" and this discussion comes down to which variety of the common viburnum you should include. Am I right so far. Where I work this would take ten minutes so in some way we need to get from here to there. I know that some here think that design means that first you plant something here and if you don't like then you dig it up and plant it there. I don't think that this is design but if that is what you want to do go ahead. If it is 'design' you are interested in we have to turn back a page or two because you have gone straight to the answer when we are not fully aware what the question is.

Sorry to take so long to get back to this thread. Just finished getting computer problems straightened out.

Elaine, thanks for the viburnum Burkwoodii recommendation. Let me know if you are able at some point to post photos. I know it isn't easy...I had trouble for quite awhile. :-)

Karin...
No, they are not my silver maples so can't remove them. Yes, I had so far determined the yews might be the best choice, just checking to see if anyone else had a different view. As for being contradictory, it wouldn't be the first time..lol. But when I said I didn't want to produce more shade but also wanted fast growing shrubs, what I meant was I didn't want to produce shade so I wouldn't be able to grow the fast growing shrubs that I want to use, that would need at least some sun. Thanks for the catalogue suggestion..yes, I do seem to have to 'see' what something is going to look like.

Thanks mad_gallica on the clarification on the leatherleaf viburnum.

Inkognito...perhaps you could elaborate on the point you are trying to make. I would be very interested in your explanation of what the essential question is and 'backing up' to consider whether I have missed something.

Thanks :-)

When a question like yours is asked it has already been assumed that "RE: Help placing shrubs in a border?" is the problem. A designer would consider this to be the answer after a lot of other considerations were taken into account. Do you need a list of stuff to plant experimentally or is this a design question?

First of all, if it was not clear, I am not a trained designer, but a homeowner 'designing' their own landscape. My thread, began as a question on one aspect of design. How does someone trained in design, go about placing shrubs? The responses I got seem to reflect a few different approaches. Then it flowed into consideration of whether the shrubs I wanted to choose were the right choices for my location and if there were other choices I was unaware of.

Sorry inkognito, I am really not following your train of thought. The 'design' question was asked and answered by other posters. Which was.. 'As a trained designer, what is your approach or method for placing shrubs?' Yes, there were many other questions asked and answered before getting to the point of placing shrubs. No, I am not looking for a list of plant material that would be an experiment, but thought that those who design landscapes more often then I do, might be aware of a few suggestions for shrubs that I was unaware of that would work in the challenging location I am trying to plant.

Did I answer your question, I am not sure. lol

:-)

Leatherleaf viburnum is evergreen, the "deciduous" one being referred to here might be one of the hybrids between leatherleaf viburnum and a deciduous species.

Yes you answered my question. I laughed a lot too.

If it's any comfort Prairie Moon, Ink's cryptic style - the Socratic style, I think - confuses many others. On many counts, including applicability...

On this occasion I think Ink is trying to say that a border is not "designed" in isolation of its surroundings, and that the very decision to put a border where plants will have a hard time growing is a design decision already made. And a design decision already made is less likely (here) to engage designers than it is plantspeople, and so Ink might be inclined, if he spoke straighforwardly, to recommend you go to the shrubs forum or something. But bed layout does skirt the edges of landscape design, and has been discussed here before.

In my view it's your privilege to still come to the forum with a design decision already made, but I too sometimes recoil when people have made several design decisions that I think are bad, and then come to the forum for advice on how to make them work. As in, I decided on a stupid place or shape for my pathway, now what material should I use to make it look as good as possible.

Hey, thanks for clearing up the Viburnum question, Bboy. I have been regarding my still green leatherleaf with suspicion ever since. I thought it might be a zone thing.

Not quite karin. I just think that it is important to be answering the right question. Someone asks which is the best bike, the shiny red one or the the dull gray one and the answer comes back "the shiny red one, red is a good colour for a bike". End of story, right? Someone else suggests that the dull gray one would be less attractive to a thief and so, that is the best bike. So who is right? Do you think the question, in this form is answerable or do you think a designer, or even a bicycle salesman would offer a more useful answer if more was known? I am sorry that my style confuses you karin but part of my training taught me to first analyse the problem accurately.
inkognito (designer, plantsman and bicycle consultant)

Thank you karin for interpreting for me. :-)
Inkognito, I agree with your approach to 'first analyse the problem accurately', but to do that, I think it helps to be able to gather all the information. All I know is that I had a lot of information that I was willing to share but you received very little due to the way in which you asked your questions.

I would like to respond to what you said karin, about how you feel when people post questions having already made design decisions. I am not quite understanding the Design Forum I guess. I thought it was a forum that gathers together professional designers with some amateur designers to discuss anything pertaining to design. I would find it interesting to know what kind of posts you really enjoy responding to. I read an old post that I think the title of was 'Is it all gone?', in which a number of people on this forum expressed unhappiness at too many posters who were asking for design help for their yards. I imagined that if you are a professional designer, it's like being asked for free advice. I think the post mentioned that the spring is the worst time, because there are a lot of posts then with those type of questions. So I thought I was doing you a favor not asking for too much help with my yard.

As for my design project,at this point, I have already committed myself to a design and made lots of decisions already. So, why invite discussion about something that I am not in a position to change now? Either someone will have a great idea that I wish I had thought of, or someone will point out something they don't agree with that I have done. Either way I could end up feeling unhappy about what I have done and since I am very satisfied and happy with it right now, why do that? [g]

I really would have LOVED more help with it. I think I might have gotten a lot out of posting photos of my yard and asking for input from the beginning, but I didn't. Besides which my design project is pretty boring stuff. I have lots of limitations on what I can do, so I have basically stuck to what was practical for me. I have a small property, need to keep costs and labor down, I have no pretty borrowed landscape to help out, I'm organic, I like to use natives, and I have all these tree roots to deal with. A real pain in the neck, I suppose...plus I am pretty opinionated. [g] So, I tried to keep my 'design' question pretty specific to what I was having a hard time with. . I would have at least posted a photo of the border I was asking about, but our digital camera was stolen and not been replaced yet.

If it makes you feel any better, I really did end up being helped by the responses to my post. I have really started to focus much more than I was, on adding evergreens. I have felt encouraged to look more at the taxus cultivars. I've already checked out design books from the library and the Conifers and D'Sabato books recommended to me.

I have really appreciated all your help and I would like to think I could ask for help again. It might help if I knew what 'not' to ask. Maybe that's a question for another thread.
:-)

Prairiemoon,

First of all, I'm just a learner here and I've been learning as I read this thread. I'm grateful that you posted, and, at least potentially, the run of the thread may be at the very brink of an "Ah ha" moment. Some grit, courtesy of Ink, has been thrown into the mix. The beginnings of a pearl?

I keep reading your expression "design project". That's what it is, but it is definitely a subset not the main show. It's border or bed design. Yes, it comes up around here, and I for one am not picky about the contexts from which I glean new information. I think the frustration for some comes from the landscape portion of the forum title. It's a landscape design forum, not a border design forum. It becomes particularly problematic when it appears that someone is designing that bed without any consideration or reference to the larger landscape. I don't think that's the case for your situation, but without certain information it's hard to know for sure.

It might be like asking Rembrandt to assist in painting a 1 inch square of a larger painting. And asking him to do it without knowing what the subject of the painting is or how that 1 inch square relates to the total canvas. The 1 inch square is important. Leaving it blank will leave an obvious missing piece in the overall composition, but Rembrandt wants to know what the whole picture is trying to achieve. If you've already picked the colors for that one inch square, he wants to know if they really integrate with the painting as a whole.

So  I'm thinking that your question is fine. Your most recent post gives us more of the bigger picture. The understanding that is on offer here is to catch onto the idea that a border design isn't the same thing as landscape design. And, in order to be professional, some around here try to remind us of that important distinction. Rembrandt wouldn't get his brush wet before analyzing, planning, conceiving the whole.

PM, as one who is reluctant to jump in to the common "help me design" requests, I don't find anything wrong with your question. I see it as a request for assistance with planting design, which I interpret as a subset (thanks, Wellspring) of the larger, landscape design picture. And moreover, your question was a case of how rather than a case of what, calling into play in a smaller and very specific scale all those design principles that apply to the larger picture.

Very few of us have the luxury of designing with a blank slate. Virtually all of my clients have an existing landscape that needs revamping, with existing plant elements - to varying degrees - that must remain in place. This is a very real design issue and to ignore the input that these existing plants contribute is to inevitably arrive at an unsuccessful design.

I am assuming, correctly or not, that you have already given the proper consideration to the larger picture landscape design and are now looking to find the tools to combine specific plants in a specific location in a pleasing and reasonable fashion. That you already have a selection of plants on hand is neither here or there - the concepts behind successful placement and combinations remain the same. In much the same idea as the discussions regarding specific plants being superfluous to the design concepts being illustrated in the thread on "good and bad design books", the plants you have already chosen and acquired are superfluous to the design you wish to create except as to their suitability for that specific location and how they relate to each other. And I would think it is pretty much a given, unless you are incredibly clairvoyant and have a remarkably acute innate design sense, that you will need to acquire additional plants to satisfactorily complete the composition.

And I apologize for not following up on an earlier question you had on my use of what I call "transitional" plants. These are plants that by virtue of their habit (low, spreading), foliar size and texture and coloring tie various elements of the design together. I'm sorry not to be more specific than that, but can only say that there are scores of plants that will fill this description, including groundcovers, low growing shrubs or even sprawling herbaceous perennials. What you select is up to you as long as it fits that function.

Wellspring....
Glad the post was helpful for you too. :-) Yes, you are right, inkognito stirred the pot, didn't he? [g]

When I refer to my 'design project', I was actually thinking in terms of my whole yard, which this border is a subset of, but you are right, my questions pertained only to the border/bed design. I think it might help if I back up a little and share what my design project has been so you can have the 'big picture'. We have a small cape on a 1/4 acre, level lot which had been neglected for about 15 years. At least the shrub borders had been. It was necessary to pull out all 120 feet of shrub with many volunteer saplings etc, which was the motivation for the redo of the yard. I started by evaluating what was going to remain. I wanted to keep our lawn, but reduce the size and reshape it, keep the fencing which hasn't worn out quite yet. Would have loved to add some hardscape, but haven't been able to do more yet. We do have a very inexpensive brick colored paver patio that we installed a long time ago and we simply updated it with new pavers. Most of what I added were easy because I just put things where they made the most sense to go. pathway from gate to backdoor and patio, patio near the kitchen,vegetable beds where I had the most sun, perennial bed where I had the most sun.

Actually the shrub border is the largest and most significant area of our yard. It runs from the left side of the yard all across the back lot line and around the corner of the right side of the yard. We have a wide and fairly narrow lot, so there is the house, then a small area of lawn, then this 90 foot lot line that I want to add shrubs to. Every window in the back of the house faces that border. The areas that need screening because of unattractive views are on the other side of that border, mainly because we put a 4ft post and rail fence there that makes them quite visible. The sides of the yard have 6ft stockade fence. We installed the fences at least 15 yrs ago. The reason I put the post and rail in the back was because the idea of putting 6ft stockade all around the three sides of the yard would have left me feeling claustrophobic, like being in a box. Our property is in the middle of our block and there are two properties behind us that meet in the middle. With all their silver maples, I cannot really see the horizon which I really miss but at least with the post and rail, I can see their yards and other houses further down the streets on the side. The silver maple branches start pretty high up. No one in our neighborhood gardens. They all have grass, trees and maybe a few foundation shrubs, that's it. One neighbor behind has small children with an above the ground pool, a swingset area and an old truck under a bright blue tarp. [g] The other neighbor has an in the ground pool, a shed and has health problems, so they are not always keeping up with their yard. The old shrub border was overgrown and we were not even aware of what was behind it until we took it out..lol. Part of my problem is that the old shrubs were over 30 years old and were installed and had a chance to grow before the maple trees were mature. Now I have a much harder task to try to get something to grow large enough to screen the view, with the shade and tree roots to compete.

As for design goals, I wanted something that would allow me to grow a variety of 4 season shrubs and perennials that would provide food and cover for birds, an area to grow vegetables that was attractive, a comfortable place to sit and eat outside, something attractive to view from inside the house, privacy and as low maintenance as possible, using as many native plants as possible and keeping costs to a minimum. In order to keep the costs down, I chose to stick to the basic layout of the yard that was already there and functioning fine, but without the attractiveness that I was looking for. We removed the shrubs ourselves with shovels to further reduce the cost. Choosing to spend our money on plant material.

As for garden style...I don't know what my style is. [g] I like a lot of different styles, but for our yard, I guess a modified english garden would be my favorite and that would seem to fit with my cape house. But for low maintenance, I am trying to do that in small doses and keep it a little neater. I love meadows and grasses and prairies, but don't have the conditions for one, so I try to add some of these to the perennial borders. I think my goal of low maintenance fits in with a 'park like' style of shrubbery and trees. So that is about it. Nothing all that innovative or exciting, just the basics.

I am sorry if I was slow to catch on, that you were wanting context. I hope that helps. :-)

gardengal....
I hope my description of my property gives you a better idea too of what I have been working on. Yes, you have summed it up correctly, I would really like to end up with 'successful placement and combinations', which I have been trying to do for awhile and feeling like I was stuck somehow. The limitations of shade and tree roots has made it a LOT harder to work with a more limited pool of material to choose from.

I did go over and read the thread on 'good and bad design books' but I guess there aren't many who are using design books much? The discussion on design vs a list of plant material is what you are referring to though, right? Yes, I can see the difference, one is a subset of the other. Someone posted a list of what design involves, such as balance, proportion etc. and I was happy to have the reminder. When I read that list of what design involves, I think that personally, I don't find it easy to 'apply' some of those design principles. I often have wondered if it is actually something that can be taught or is it something you are born with? The problem is I can definitely recognize good design, but to 'create' good design is a different story. I have accepted that I will always struggle to create something that I recognize as good design. [g] In the meantime, that doesn't diminish my enjoyment of my 'garden'.

No need to apologize. :-) Your explanation of 'transtional' plants does make that clearer, thanks.