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aro12345

Novice Farmer Needs Help

20 years ago

I recently inhereted farmland from my step-father, with a veritable barnyard of animals.

Simultaneously, my wife and I adopted 2 children from Paraguay, ages 4 and 7 and absolutely adore them. Our 7-year old, Juan Pablo, is very-mildly differently-abled in some generally-surmountable ways, but he's got a bizarre habit of eating manure on occasion. While he's not exactly grazing or feeding, if we're all playing near the barn or feeding the animal, he'll pick up a clump of either cow, sheep or horse manure and start eating it.

When we explain to him why he shouldn't, he's passionate about "not having this at home" and it's a treat for him.

I'm sure he'll grow out of this, but he's really amazed by animal waste and somehow enjoys the taste(if only they liked all vegatables as much) and I'm just concerned about any long-term dangers that could come from doing this.

I've made repeated effort to contact someone at the Penn State program but they don't want to make any definitive statement given the unusual nature or the situation.

Comments (13)

  • 20 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Boy, you have really had a lot on your plate! I congratulate you on your adoption. I think it's wonderful that you took in some children who may not have had a fair shake in life otherwise.
    You will hear from some other more knowledgeable than I but I can warn you that there are parasites and disease that spread through animal feces so I would keep a close eye on the boy and be stern about it. Just like you would be stern if he were playing close to the road. This is very unhealthy for him. Delicate question...does he try to do the same with his own feces or play in it, etc? If so, you may have a harder time getting him to stop. If not, you may be able to correlate the two things, that both are unacceptable.
    A thought that may be totally off base but maybe in his differently-abled state and being from a totally different culture, he sees the droppings as a "crop" from the animals. I know that in all the disadvantaged countries that nothing goes to waste in an animal, well, except it's waste ;) Good luck, you must be a special person to welcome these children (and animals too) into your heart. Keep your chin up, your rewards will be great. Lori

  • 20 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    The other possibility is that he is/was lacking in some mineral or other, and was/is getting it from the manure. Pica (eating inappropriate things, including in its myriad forms, caprophagy, eating manure) frequently begins, other than the usually short period of young animals eating droppings shortly after birth to get some of the necessary bugs/bacteria for their gut, as a mineral deficiency. It can also become a habit.

    If he's already getting a daily multivitamin, you might want to have some blood tests done to see what he's low in. Even if the Dr. says that's in the normal range, normal for some is low for others. A hair test can usually give a fairly good mineral reading for past amounts, as well. I don't think they do all the other wonders they are touted for, but mineral checks, yes.

    I agree with Lori that there are too many parasites out there for him to be allowed to keep on - in fact, if you haven't already, you might want to ask your doctor about a worming dose for Pablo, just to be on the safe side. Keeping a close eye on him - I know, yet ANOTHER thing to do! - and giving him a treat every time he DOESN'T eat any manure (sort of like operant conditioning) might also work. Of course, I don't quite know how to work treat-giving out for him as a reward, without also giving something to pacify the 4yo, without diluting the effect of the reward for Pablo! Maybe they have different preferences? And maybe you can figure out something you can reward him/her for, at nearly the same time? If you check out any of the newer dog-training books, on clicker training and no-punishment training, you might get some other ideas, and get a better explanation of how it works, as not punishing the "wrong" behavior and rewarding when they seem to have done nothing, except behaved as you want them to, seems counter-productive, but it does work. I have a friend who "trained" her husband and sons to be nicer and more polite to her by being nice to them whenever they were nice and polite. Needless to say, she didn't tell them she was doing it!!!!

    I can imagine how this seems to you, and how overwhelmed you and your wife must be feeling. More power to you, and a wish for a lot more energy!!

  • 20 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    We adopted also, and our children's treat of preference was the dog and cat food and horse pellets. I had to gently teach them different. I think I would have freaked more if it had been manure.

    Ain't life grand!

    Laura

  • 20 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Maybe you could get some pepper spray and spray the stuff where
    the kid will be around it. Make it taste bad. I would have said
    make it unedible but I can't imagine eating it in the first place.

    Was watching one of Blue Collar Comedy Tour shows recently.
    Bill Engvell had his dog at the vet one day and told the vet,
    "Hey doc, my dog eats his own dog poop. What's up with that?"
    Doc says, "It's normal, here just sprinkle this on his food and
    it will make his dog poop taste bad." To which Bill is stunned.
    Bill tells the audience, "If you are eating dog poop, then you
    have never uttered the phrase 'oh my god that is nasty'."
    Maybe you could find something similar. Put it in the animals feed.

    My concern would be e coli bateria. Nasty stuff for kids to get.

    Pooh Bear

  • 20 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    E-coli bacteria is in animal droppings, and can be deadly, DEADLY!!! Also he can get parasites like worms. My neighbor's boy got worms from eating dropped candy in the goat yard. She says "God made dirt and dirt don't hurt" but her boy got really bad sick over it.
    Get him to stop, explain how nasty it is and that he doesn't have to do that, even offer a replacement treat or something to keep him motivated to not do that.
    I know different cultures place value on different things, in India they use cow manure to "sanitize" things EWWW!!!
    They wash thier floors with it! Yet many of them do get sick from it too.
    try to understand his culture yet help him understand how sick he can get.
    Good luck

  • 20 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Dibbit is also right in the yearning of inappropriate food items in the case of a mineral/nutrient difficiency. Remember the cases of lead poisoning because children were eating paint chips? It would be entirely possible that these children would have some chronic difficiencies. I assume that you've had them checked out medically, though. I would not put hot pepper spray or anything like that on it to discourage for the same reason I won't do it in my garden to discourage my cats...I would be afraid they would get it in their eyes and cause even more troubles for you and them. Plus, on a farm it is just not plausible to treat each and every pile of poo ;) Keep us informed, Lori

  • 20 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I am a veterinarian, and it amazes me how ignorant my "human" medical colleagues are about parasites and zoonotic (transmitted from animals to humans) diseases. I have had Mennonite farmer clients who tell me they routinely deworm their children, and that their doctors frown on it. I tell my clients, Good for you, and keep it up!

    We deworm dogs every month by giving them heartworm pills that have added medications to kill intestinal parasites. Animals like to eat feces, dirt, or even just lick their feet after going outdoors which causes them to frequently infect themselves with roundworms, hookworms, whipworms, giardia, coccidia, Salmonella, Campylobacter, and other nasty organisms, all of which can and do infect humans. We have been complacent in the United States because we have much better sanitation than the rest of the world, so doctors don't see the clinical infestations they do in other countries. That is changing now, with so many immigrants coming here from Third World countries and bringing these organisms with them, but our medical community is still largely clueless about how to manage them. Dog roundworms cause blindness in hundreds of children every year when the larvae migrate from the child's intestinal tract to the eye. The CDC recommends deworming animals every 6 months to protect humans from their parasites.

    OK, off my soapbox, to answer your question:

    Take a stool sample to your doctor and have them submit it for testing for intestinal parasites, ("Ova and Parasite flotation") and cultured for pathogenic bacteria. Even if nothing shows up, consider deworming your son regularly until he stops this behavior, at minimum with pyrantel, which is the common treatment for pinworms but also kills roundworms and hookworms (and other strongyles carried by ruminants). I might also consider fenbendazoles or others in the same class (consult your doctor for the one recommended for humans) which are more broad spectrum and have less resistance among the parasites. Tapeworms are susceptible to few dewormers, but praziquantel is used frequently in animals and might be a good idea once or twice yearly, as tapeworms are not easy to diagnose until the condition is advanced. Other parasites also have a prepatent period (time when they are not detected on tests) which is why regular deworming is a good idea as prevention.

    Find a veterinarian who works on farm animals, and have him/her test your animals for parasites, then deworm all of them with a broad spectrum dewormer. You might also consider having cultures done, and if you find any animals carrying zoonotic organisms, cull that animal from your herd (caution: cultures do not always detect every carrier in the group, so this method is not 100% reliable in removing risks!)

    Teach your son this is wrong, with the same methods you would use to teach him not to play with matches, or to keep away from strange dogs (or anything else dangerous to life and health). It is not teaching him manners. It is teaching him survival.

    Eating feces is not normal in any country that I know of. It may be a type of refugee syndrome manifestation. Ask someone more familiar with syndromes seen in children adopted from poverty if this is something they have had problems with in the past. He might just be using the statement "we didn't have this back home" as an excuse to continue the behavior, especially if that has worked for him before in getting something he wants. The only nutrient deficiencies that have been shown to be causes of pica are iron and salt, and most American diets have plenty of both, which leaves psychological causes. (In my book, being 4 years old qualifies as a psychological cause itself! People ask me why dogs eat their feces, and my answer is, "Because they're dogs!" Sometimes children do things because they are children.)

    Regardless of why he is doing this, logic and reasoning is unlikely to be effective with any 4 year old (certainly didn't work when my children were that age!) so you will probably have to resort to good old strict discipline to make him stop.

    I hope this information is helpful, all standard disclaimers apply and please consider this personal rather than professional advice! Good luck!

  • 20 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Oops, I see you were referring to your 7 year old, my apologies! although considering his situation, he may be developmentally younger than 7.

    Please let us know if you are successful in resolving his habit.

  • 20 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    If your pediatrician is not familiar with health issues of adopted children, I suggest you find a new doctor. Your children should be tested monthly for worms, giardia, and cryptosporidium for at least 6 months and maybe a year. My wife and I hosted a local branch of Families of Russian and Ukrainian Adoptions for several years. We have seen many kids arrive with negative test results but symptoms of giardia. It sometimes takes months for the disease to progress to the point of detection. Unusual eating habits is one symptom. Others include persistent and unusually foul smelling diarrhea. These diseases are very common everywhere but North America so it would not be unusual for your children to be affected.

  • 19 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Laura we also adopted, and our childrens preference is canned cat food heated in a microwave oven. The zappy zap of the microwave will kill off bacteria, which can be found in droppings that may have slipped through during the manufacturing process. Which flavors do your children like?

  • 19 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Kids do the darndest things! All I can say is have patience and keep at it.

  • 19 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    put hot sauce in the poo and he will spit it out

  • 19 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Aro12345, how have things gone with your two children? Despite the sometimes not-quite fully thought out or truly practical nature of some of the advice you have been given, we do care about your children and the problems you have had with the older one. I trust that things have settled down, and you and your wife have made a comfortable home for yourselves and the children.

    It must have been been an eventful 6 months for all of you. I hope spring is finally on its way to you, although as I recall from when I lived near Paoli, it is slow......