This is going to be a simple organic mix of different fruit. I won't be trimming the trees, even if it means reduced yield. I'm just going to let them go.

What fruit are best for low-maintenance?

rusticbohemian, turning blighted parcels into productive community orchards would be worthwhile. Have you grown fruit trees or done ambitious community projects before? Urban Gardens can be very successful in many ways. Is their a model community Garden you would like to work towards? I don't think the City fathers will let someone plant fruit trees with out a plan.

Yes, I've planted fruit trees before. I also garden. No I've never organized a community project, but that's what the Lions Club is for.

I think I am going to have to throw a dash of reality, like a bucket of cold water, onto some of this.

Without a regular spray program and some periodic pruning, both for initial pruning and then ongoing maintenance, many fruit trees will be a total mess, producing wormy and/or diseased, useless fruit that no one wants, and becoming an unkempt, tangled mess. Quite of few of them, especially the stone fruits, will have a much-reduced lifespan (not that their productive life is that long, anyway, 10 to 15 years at most) due to diseases that will claim them quickly.

And, while there are some fruits, such as paw paws, persimmons, and mulberries, which will grow and yield without any real intervention, I suspect that the reaction of many people in your city will be the same as that I get when I try to give some of my exotic produce away -- many, not all, but many, people stare at it and pass it up because they're not familiar with it. Too many people are conditioned to only want Red Delicious apples, navel oranges, etc, the stuff that they can find at any grocery store.

The concept of a community garden is an excellent one, but I think it's naive and unrealistic to think that an orchard of any kind could just be planted and then more or less ignored, other than perhaps the periodic mowing and lot clean-up by some Parks Department person.

I think what you propose COULD probably be done IF you could find the right group of REALLY, REALLY dedicated volunteers who would be willing to make a long-term commitment to this project, but people like that, with that much spare time on their hands, might be hard to come by.

I think a much more realistic approach would be try to develop a general-purpose community garden which is predominantly vegetable plots, with a smattering of flowers, herbs, and fruits. Especially at first, vegetables would provide an incentive to the local population to become involved, and would have a much more immediate payoff, on a scale of a few weeks to a few months for the intial crops to come in. You could certainly incorporate some fruit trees and small fruits, but I think you'd find that many people would loose interest in the concept of an urban orchard in the three years, at a bare minimum, that it would take for most small fruits and trees to begin to bear a significant crop.

Our local court here has established a garden that is about 2 acres in size which is worked on every Saturday and periodic weekdays and evenings by people who are sentenced to community service, and that has worked out really, really well. They have donated a vast amount of produce to the senior center and other worthwhile groups, and it seems to help the offenders as well. It's gotten a fair amount of press over the decade of its existence, all positive. This may be one thought, if a sponsoring judge could be found and some funding, a free labor source for some of the tremendous amount of work a community orchard would entail.

Trust me, I know of what I speak regarding the cultural issues of fruit trees and small fruits. I've got over 100 fruit and nut trees on my 2 acre plot, as well as pretty much every small fruit which will grow in my climate. And, while it's a very rewarding hobby, it IS a tremendous amount of work, and without all of that hard work, which includes a LOT of fertilizing, spraying and pruning, there wouldn't be much except a big, overgrown, diseased and bug-infested mess. I spend probably 6 to 8 hours every day in season, from late March to about early December, working in my garden, sandwhiched in between work, school, and other tasks of daily life. This is sort of the minimum input of time needed to keep things in some semblance of order. Believe me, my garden is far from perfect, either, with that amount of time committed to it, but that does keep it relatively under control.

I think your ambitions are commendable, but realistically, it is my opinion that it wouldn't work out quite as you envision. I think you need to modify your plans somewhat, that's all.

The most trouble-free fruiting plants (at least here in Michigan) are:

Persimmons, Paw Paws, Mulberries, Pears for tree fruits. But, once again, many people won't want the first three.

Small fruits tend to be easier, overall. Raspberries, Blackberries, Gooseberries, Currrants, Blueberries, Strawberries are all pretty simple, requiring not too much work or maintenance.

Dennis
SE Michigan

I agree with much Dennis said and commend him on the thoughfulness of his input. There's a couple things I'd like to add from my experience.

How much input will be required as far as spray is highly unpredictable. In that area which is climatically similar to the southeastern NY area where I manage orchards, pear trees, both Asain and European are sometimes succesful without spray. I have clients who even get good yealds of peaches from neglected trees. In a blighted urban area fruit tree pests may be sparse.

I think the wisest course of action would be to begin experimentally in a way that won't doom the project if some of the trials fail. Definately start with some Heritage raspberries which could provide fruit the very first season.

Blueberries would be interesting but would take a while for pay-off and might need to be netted. Be sure to use early mid and late varities, finishing with Elliot.

Asian pears are precoscious compared to European- try a couple of Korean Giants (aka Olympic) because they really get the sugar up, even in the northeast. You'll need a pollinator and Seckel could work if you don't use another Asian. If you don't get scab or pear psyla, Seckel may well work without spray input and doesn't require a ton of pruning to stay in bounds.

Be aware of the presence of squirrels. If they are highly prevalent you will never harvest any pears without protection.

Well that's all I have time for now. If you'd like some more input contact me at alandhaigh@gmail.com.

Good luck, Alan Haigh, The Home Orchard Co.

One other thing is the fruit that makes it will be stolen. Here in the Baltimore rough neighborhoods they steal everything that isn't nailed down. I think the community garden works better because all the neighbors with plots there become vigilant guards, and there are also people in the garden much of the time so even if thieves know they could come at night, they see the land has "ownership" during the day. The perception of something un-owned is what gets things stolen. On that front, it is also important to keep the lot looking "neat", not overgrown with weeds etc. It probably needs to be gated and locked or the city will be objecting because people will hang out make a mess etc.

One way you could cut down on stealing is to plant a monoculture which would ripen all at once. You could have a harvest day and invite everyone to come get it. Its hard to steal bushel after bushel in a short time. Also it weighs for larger trees where a ladder would be needed (semi-dwarf).

In terms of the fruit I agree with Alan, either pears or you will need to spray.

I would talk with a community garden organizer at length before you do anything, they will know all the ins and outs. I do think it is worth trying to do and wish you luck.

Scott

>One other thing is the fruit that makes it will be stolen.

But the original poster wrote:

>The park will be open for picking by all

So stealing is probably not really an issue, but vandalism might be?

I would be partial to starting with persimmon and paw paw. They both will take a while to come into production, but should be as trouble free as you can get, and would let you get your feet wet while you figure out the logistics.

Yes, it may take a while for the word to spread that these are actually good to eat, but this sounds like a project for the long haul.

I'd suggest reading "edible forest gardens" or "how to make a forest garden". These are about setting up a garden, modeled after the forest, and designed to be a low maintenance polyculture that yields a lot of diverse foods. "Edible Forest Gardens" is written especially for those in the Northeast.

Alex

Rustic,

Dennis is spot on, with his analysis. Unfortunately, fruit trees won't produce without a lot of care. There are a ton of unkept fruit trees around here as a testament. At best those folks get a sampling of fruit per tree, and generally it's no fruit.

If you are interested in putting some ongoing time in this project, you may want to just consider buying the lots. In some downtown cities around here, you can easily buy those lots for less than $500. Sometimes for $100.

Of course you may have to fence it to protect it as Scott points out, or try monoculture as suggested.

Sounds like a worthwhile project.

Alex, stealing is kids picking fruit to use as ammo, not to eat. Or someone taking it all. In either case the neighbors who patiently watched all the fruit grow and were looking forward to some will view it as stealing.

Scott

Hi RusticBohemian-

First let me say, I applaud your spirit and enthusiasm. I think its a great idea, but I think you really want to listen to the posts above. That isnÂt to say you shouldnÂt do it. I just think you need to modify you plan just a bit with more emphasis on low maintenance fruits and a long term maintenance care plan.

Like others have said, for the most part, most of these plants are not simply "Plant and pick". ItÂs more of an augment soil, plant, nurture, water, fertilize, spray, water, prune, thin, more TLC, spray, spray, pick.

That said, there are certainly plants that are easy to care for than others.

As HarvestMan said, certainly raspberries would be a good choice. I think mine are mostly care-free, except for the mowing down (the easiest thing to do) in the winter, and adding of compost in the spring. (maybe you could even do that all at once?) If you set them up with good containment in the beginning (so they donÂt spread to where you donÂt want them to be I think this could be about as close to plant and pick as you could get. Though I may have to disagree (gasp) with HarvestMan on one point There are better varieties out there than Heritage these days, and you can search this forum for more info on those.

Thornless blackberries would be another candidate. Like my raspberries, mine have been pretty much disease free, and for the most part, the birds stay away. The issue here is that normally youÂd want a really solid trellis here. But, in your case, you might want to go with the less productive free standing varieties. Again, youÂre going to want to prune out the old canes in the spring, and give them some compost.

Possibly some blueberries? The issue here is you have to do netting to keep the birds away. HereÂs a case where you would probably want to amend the soil first to get your PH down. Mullberries would be another good candidate.

Apples eh? Like the others have said, these guys are going to be a LOT more work here. At the very least, you should consider only disease resistant varieties. And, in your case, IÂd recommend only the most DR ones. Even with that, youÂre still going to need a solid spraying plan. I doubt bagging the apples would be an option here as they would attract a lot of attention and perhaps people would see them as litter? Apples may be a bit beyond your plan.

Another concern I have is water. You are going to need to water these plants pretty often. Do you have a plan get water to these sites? IÂm picturing a level-site, which wonÂt have much shade, and these many plants could suck up a lot of water.

I really hope your project succeeds. Just make sure you put in all the logistics before hand to make sure it does. If you havenÂt done any home orcharding before, IÂd be prepared to spend the next many months and years determining the right (low maintenance, hearty, disease resistant) varieties for your idea. Like others have said definitely start small if at all possible. YouÂll learn so much, and it will change the way proceed.

Good luck! This is a very big undertaking.

-Glenn

I love your idea but am with some of the others in opinions. To prove to the city council that this idea has merit, I would start a small community garden in one area of the property and then add some of the fruit plants you want others to "share". I would start with plants that multiply and basically take care of themselves, so to speak. Plants such as thornless raspberries and blackberries and strawberries for example will spread and do not need spraying. If the community/neighbors prove that they will care for the garden, I would then think about adding pears and maybe some nut trees.

Signs stating what areas are open to others to pick from freely and the names of the plants would be very helpful. In order to get kids interested, why not have a large pumpkin patch that they can get a pumpkin from in the fall. Many inner city kids have never seen how pumpkins are grown let alone the opportunity to pick one. You could then pass out recipes to the parents showing how you can cook and eat the pumpkin after Halloween and even have a community party to clean up the gardens before putting them to bed for the winter once the pumpkins are picked.

I would start a large area for composting and teach people how to compost and its importance. How are you going to provide water for the gardens? Is there a way to get rainbarrels started?

The neighboor people may have lots to offer. I would pass out flyers stating what you are trying to accomplish and ask for their support as well. Some may be willing to keep paths clean or cut/weedwack grass and weeds. Some may have the ability to make benches or trellises for the gardens. You may have local artists that like to make garden art from junk/recyclable items to add interest and fun. When the neighbors support such a venture and take pride in it, it has a better chance of success.

See if the local newspaper is interested in doing a story about your efforts. A little free advertising may go a long way in getting donations for your new park.

Good luck, Kim

Wonderful idea! Perhaps involving young people through 4-H or other organizations would be good.

I agree about vandalism. That is a problem in our small town. Children roam the streets and alleys looking for things to get into. My neighbor has a peach tree outside of his fence and children pull the fruit before it's ripe. The elderly neighbor next door has a peach tree but no fence and they often walk boldly right up to the back of her house to pull the fruit then throw at each other...I have found it in my garden. We fenced our yard in the hopes of keeping them out. I do not mind sharing what I have but waste makes me angry.

Peggy

There may be better tasting raspberries than Heritage but in my southeastern NY area none have proved as reliable and durable. I have tried Caroline and Autumn Bliss and a couple of others and they just haven't worked as well for me in less than optimum conditions. I wish breeders would work more on making varieties easy to grow. Don't get me wrong, I've gotten other fall bearers to perform well- it just takes more attention- at least the ones I've tried.

Blackberries are great if temps don't drop below 0 F. and kill the canes. I'm talking about varieties I like to grow like Navajo and Tripple Crown. Otherwise canes better be covered. The reason I pointed out Heritage is just because you could get fruit the first season which won't be true of blackberries or black raspberries. Up here black raspberries are more reliable than the sweet varieties of thornless blackberries I've tried. Canes can take more cold.

Interesting Harvestman. Youre the first person here on this forum that Ive seen come to the rescue of Heritage. All the other regulars here have always recommended the newer varieties. I dont mind my Heritage berries. I just find them a bit small, and not as productive as some of my other varieties. Others find the taste of Caroline to be much better, though I hardly notice the difference. But, if I had to cut half of my 10 varieties, Heritage wouldnt make the team. Yes, with any fall bearing raspberries (in addition to Heritage) should give you berries the first year. My first year Prelude's gave me a respectable crop this summer.

Hopefully the -3 temperatures we had recently (although not all that uncommon) around here won't bother my Chesters. I'm planting some Triple Crown blackberries this year. With Zone 5 being their bottom, and me in 6b, I didnt think thered be a problem. Perhaps they'll be able to deal with it too.

Now back to your regularly scheduled topic. :-)
-Glenn

Chester is cold hardy but has to be completely soft to get any sweetnes- at least that was my experience. It is the higher quality thornless that freeze below zero.

The reason I like Heritage is that I'm not a huge fan of raspberries anyway and don't consider them worth much trouble- I have too much to do with tree fruit. Heritage is so much more durable than other varieties I've tried there just is no comparison. If Heritage gets enough water (not from rain!) in bearing season, its fruit is fine and here it bears about as well as any. There just isn't all that much difference from other berries to me but I don't even tend to eat many straight. Not with all the luscious plums and peaches ready at that time.

Heritage didn't work for me where I had them.. berries were microscopic. They were on a hill and I guess were lacking water.

Scott

I was part of a so-called "Master Gardeners Program" where we were given some pretty decent instruction and training, field trips and lectures and such, but were expected to donate an equal amount of time in some garden-related community service.

One of the projects was to maintain, on loaned private land, a garden with the produce to be donated to to the food bank. It started out fairly well, and we got a few onions, potatoes, squash, and tomatoes for them, but towards the end very few volunteers were actually showing up for the actual work. I was glad when I was able to be done with it.

But the project was eventually emulated more successfully on different land and that new project is being well run a couple of decades later. Permanent buildings have been constructed, some livestock is being added, and there's a blend of permanent, paid people and volunteers. It's working well, and provides significant amounts of high quality food at very reasonable cost.

There is also a space where individuals can rent, at nominal cost, garden space from the city parks department. The entire block is under private cultivation by different "tenants" who are free to do what they like with the space and the results. The city provides water, I'm not sure what else. Seems to be working.

I think it's important for the people in the area to be personally invested.

Some churches do a lot with food saving -Mormans come to mind- and some do a lot with food recycling (Second Harvest, which I believe organises picking up grocery store discards). They might have useful suggestions.

Good luck. It's a great idea and I hope it works for you. No doubt there's a lot of potential for problems, but there's a lot of potential for success, too.

Well, bless you! Your heart is in the right place, and I hate to throw cold water on your plan. You are laboring on the idea that these people will be thrilled with your idea. How many boys are there in the area? Only 2 completely destroyed a pear tree for us. They picked the green pears to throw and broke so many branches we had to cut the tree down. Also realize that you won't pick much fruit unless the trees are netted. Then there is the spraying!! Well, let us know how it all comes out.

I think the OP could start with several mulberries. They need no spray or pruning, they produce early and are well liked, and they produce an avalanche of fruits that will accommodate two-legged, bushy-tailed, and two-winged thieves all together.

They also make shade, which is appreciated in the inner city. This is hardly an original idea. I work in Detroit, and there old houses have (in great numbers) apple and mulberry trees.

If that works (not a given, I am the only one around my office who goes pick mulberries), he could expand to chestnuts. Same deal (no care), and they are beautiful shade trees with a crop that defends itself from all but two-legged thieves (even they have to know how to open a burr). If that works too, he can branch into persimmons and pawpaws.

Another idea no one mentioned is that, if these areas are to be made liveable, large arbors of Concord grapes or hardy kiwis will prove popular. The kiwis are very productive if watered.

This requires the work of constructing an arbor, but these fruits may be consumed long before people take to chestnuts. When I take a can of just picked yellow pear tomatoes to work, people will not touch them (they are yellow). When I offer them chard in its very prime,they will ask me what it is, and it is there at the supermarket every time they go shopping. On the other hand, if children find out about the fruits and like them, that is all one needs to have the trees stripped.

Finally, the moment one of the children falls from a tree and breaks a collarbone, the City will come over and chainsaw and chip the whole grove. Sad but true.