And also good self care....

Hippocrates: Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food.

FataMorgana

Osler was probably referring to the host of patent medicines/snake oil remedies popular in his day. These were mostly useless and some harmful or even deadly. He'd probably feel the same way about most "dietary supplements" if he was alive today (while marveling at the many lifesaving and symptom-relieving drugs that were unknown when he practiced medicine).

Osler would most likely be sick to his stomach seeing how little bedside time doctors spend with their patients, and how much pills they prescribe.

"The glutton digs his own grave with his teeth."

"Remember how much you do not know. Do not pour strange medicines into your patients."

Osler evidently had contempt for most of the pills and potions used in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, as well as disdaining homeopathy and other quackery.

On the other hand, he referred to morphine as "G.O.M." (God's Own Medicine) and famously observed:

"The desire to take medicine is perhaps the greatest feature that distinguishes man from animals."

Maybe it's best to remember him as an outstanding diagnostician and inspirational figure in early scientific medicine, rather than selectively quoting him to advance a particular agenda.

This post was edited by eric_oh on Thu, Feb 13, 14 at 19:00

"The desire to take medicine is perhaps the greatest feature that distinguishes man from animals."

Or the great disadvantage.. Animals, like any organism, tries it's best to help itself heal. They know what they are doing, it's instinct. When animals get sick, they fast, some sick animals don't eat for days when sick. Fasting is their medicine.

Dont get me wrong,Some modern medical care is great, surgery and the er mainly. But most pharmaceuticals and over the counter "medicine"is unnecessary and even harmful, most have unhealthy fillers/dyes, etc. We take way to many of these unnecessary products when we arent feeling well in hopes of feeling better, but really what were are doing is consuming the unhealthy additives in most these products, which halts healing.. Instead, of drinking nitequil or whatever, only consume pure things when you are sick, get some rest, sleep, drink clean water. If you are hungry, dont eat chips and pop, instead, have a saled or fruit. You'll be amazed to find out you dont need any if these drugs or potions to get well.

modern doctors are essentially paid lobbyists for Big Pharma. they receive $ and perks to promote certain drugs. (i have two clients that are pharmaceutical reps, they admit this freely as do the big pharmaceutical corporations, its not a secret). and since the goal of any corporate venture, including this one, is to create and maintain a customer base for maximum profit there is little to no motivation to help people heal. get it?

keeping people sick means more money for docs and pharmaceutical companies!

contrast that with traditional doctors in china and other places in the east where human nature is known and understood. docs are paid monthly as long as their clients remain healthy. if and when the client falls ill the doctor no longer receives compensation...so naturally the doc is very motivated to make sure folks stay well. a variation of this is the basis of my herbal/nutrition practice, i let folks decide how much to pay me based on their results. folks are very generous when they get good results, 99% of the time they pay more than i would have charged them. and because client education is a priority in my practice they learn to care for themselves...rather than become dependent on me and a prescription drug for their wellbeing.

I agree with Natures_Nature that we are far too prone to seek drug solutions for problems that can be addressed more safely and beneficially by good diet, exercise and proper sleep. Similarly, too often people want to believe there are "miracle" herbs or supplements that will supply a quick and easy fix for their troubles.

"keeping people sick means more money for docs and pharmaceutical companies!"

This is a common view among the conspiracy-minded, but is contradicted by reality. Physicians constantly promote healthy diet, smoking cessation, moderation in alcohol consumption and a variety of other preventative measures (vaccination, for example) that are designed to keep people healthy and avoid the need for drugs and surgery. But too many of us want to keep our unhealthy lifestyles and get a quick fix when we get into trouble. And there are lots of "alternative healers" closely allied with the $30 billion dollar supplement industry in the U.S., who are eager to profit by selling us phony cures.

Railing against mainstream medicine (or for that matter herbalism) doesn't contribute to better health. What really empowers us is taking the best of both systems (the evidence-based treatments) - which is what complementary medicine should be all about.

There are good allopathic doctors and there are good naturopathic doctors. There are bad allopathic doctors and there are bad naturopathic doctors. It's the bad doctors that give the field a bad name. It drives me crazy when the bad guys dilute the good in that field. It drives me crazy that people label you as either mainstream medicine, or a conspiracy theorists. People make it seem like there is no middle ground, it's either your a irrational conspiracy theorists, or a big pharma rep.. There is a middle ground, there are actually logical real people who devote their lives to study goverment corruption. Their is also people who devote their lives studying vaccines. If the person devoting his time to study government corruption hears his neighbor saying how crazy he is for having all these water filters on his house. He would either probably laugh, or if your anything like me, feel sad for his neighbors, because I know the EPA cannot regulate everything, I know that some big companies like to cover up information(possible leaks in factories, pollution). I know that the chlorine and fluoride can bond to different elements to create possible harmful eliminates in the tap water. I studied this stuff, I know what kind of pollutants can make it in our water. Unfortunately, my neighbor doesn't know.. Now imagine, you studied/created vaccines for say smallpox and you heard someone state that the vaccine contains mercury and various other harmful substances. You would likely smile at the person and explain to them you been curing hundreds of people of small pox, no one yet died of mercury poisoning. It goes both ways. This world is a push and a pull, a ying and a yang, hot or cold, acid or alkaline, love or hate. Everybody, no matter what they believe in always has some truth. Everything has some truth. It is your job to take everyones puzzle piece and put it together, then you see the picture wide and clear.

Re smallpox vaccine, I'd tell them that no one receives it any more because the vaccine completely eradicated the disease. And if it wasn't for the Taliban killing vaccination workers, the last few pockets of polio would probably have been wiped out too.

There's no logical middle ground on that subject.

the facts are clear, draw your own conclusions:

doctors make more money when their customers are ill.

doctors make more money via kickbacks and perks when they prescribe certain pharmaceutical drugs being pushed by their pharmacy reps. doctors are lobbyists for Big Pharma.

doctors make little or no money when their customers are healthy.

good self care goes a long way toward keeping people healthy.

~ take good care of yourself!

It is hard to understand a mindset that denies all that modern medicine does in the area of wellness and preventive medicine - including emphases on prenatal care, cancer screening, immunizations, diet and exercise initiatives and much more. There is even a specialty devoted to preventive care.

Instead we hear grotesquely inaccurate stereotypes about how "doctors want you to be sick".

That sort of attitude empowers no one.

truth feels hurtful and wrong to those who prefer ego stroking whitewash.

the proof is in the pudding

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html

america has the most expensive healthcare system in the world, yet ranks 51st in actual healthy people. the 'doctors and pills are gods' system we have isn't working.

take responsibility for your own health, good self care empowers and promotes healthy long life. and when you need a doctor or modern medical healthcare choose wisely.

Earlier in this thread we heard the following sweeping denunciation of physicians:

"modern doctors are essentially paid lobbyists for Big Pharma. they receive $ and perks to promote certain drugs."

While this is untrue for the vast majority of physicians, it's fair game to point out ethical lapses wherever they occur. For instance, in alternative medicine where leading proponents of herbalism and supplement use have made fortunes while selling their own products (Joe Mercola, for example). And do you know for sure that your own herbalist isn't shilling for a supplement dealer?

One of the biggest marketers, Nature's Sunshine Products, is pushing a free herbalist training course. What a great deal! Where it pays off for NSP is that they build up a stable of "herbalists" who are committed to prescribing their products. In return, the "herbalists" get financial incentives after attending the "Natural Health School" and going out into "practice". First you become an NSP member.

"Step Two: If you haven't already, visit our Natural Health School, our FREE herbalist training course, where you can complete all of our herbal studies online. Add it to your favorites because you will want to visit this site again and again.

Step Three: Begin the self-paced Leadership Training by clicking here.

NSP Membership Benefits

Purchase products at wholesale cost (save 33% or more off retail on the best nutritional products available).
Receive rebates of up to 30% on your own purchases.
Receive up to 40% bonuses on the product purchases of those you sponsor.
Receive industry-leading commissions and overrides.
Choose from over 500 quality products to meet the health needs of your customers and those you love.
As a Member, you will also receive special offers, product discounts and company publications. You will be able to attend educational and fun NSP-sponsored seminars and events."

Hmm...wonder whether those new herbalists will be selecting treatments for their clients based on what's best for them - or making decisions guided by the rebates and bonuses they can expect from NSP?

If physicians got their education for free from drug companies and sold company drugs to patients in return for rebates, bonuses and commissions, there'd be a huge public outcry and they'd lose their licenses. But in the wild, wooly and unregulated world of alt med, this stuff is tolerated.

Moral of the story - be very careful (online and in real life) of people who pitch themselves as experts (but whose training and expertise cannot be verified). Demand good evidence for the treatments they want you to use. Don't settle for "Trust me, I'm a doctor/herbalist/homeopath".

That's real empowerment.

Here is a link that might be useful: NSP and their herbalists

We could be here all day taking stabs at eachother, it's like natural healing vs unnatural. They both have benefits and drawbacks. We already know that there is corruption in nearly every field. We have to look through the "bad guys" and find the true honest good guys. The only way you could do this is to spend time researching every facet of that field, never have a closed mind, visit various doctors, clinics, health retreats, see what works for yourself. When someone hears the word herbalism, or naturopathy, if you think quack saleman, you are close minded. If you hear the word allopathy, and think crazy medical doctors jamming pills down your throat, you are close minded. There are quack salesmen in every field, nearly everything has something good to offer, some truth.. You have to opens your mind, and experience that in order to see for yourself what is true or false. If we all just read something on the internet,etc(which the majority of people on these forums does), and not go through the experience themselves, they don't know what is really the truth, they just know what they read and repeat, read and repeat. It's amazing how many people have such strong comments, and beliefs, but they never walked the walk. Walk the walk, the truth will talk. You will know the truth when you find it. Nothing is better than to be honest and speak the truth of what you know. The lies can only hide so long. The truth always comes out in the end, it always does.

"If we all just read something on the internet,etc(which the majority of people on these forums does), and not go through the experience themselves, they don't know what is really the truth, they just know what they read and repeat"

My perspective comes from being a physician and patient (of both mainstream and alternative medicine) and from reading and evaluating what's promoted and published by various parties.

There's certainly a lot to be said for experience, but it's way impractical (not to mention expensive and potentially hazardous) to try to experience many different types of therapies for a given problem. That's where consulting dependable sources is valuable (and by dependable sources I don't mean semi-anonymous Internet "experts"). Another problem is that humans have a certain capacity for fooling ourselves, whether it's physicians who think their personal practice experience "proves" that an outmoded technique is valuable, or a patient whose symptoms abate in the course of taking a pill or supplement and falsely attributes the improvement to the pill (and not to other care they may be receiving or the natural course of the disease)..

This is why standards of evidence-based medicine need to apply to mainstream as well as alternative care.

And as I've said before, the term "complementary" medicine assumes a lack of rigid hostility between the two "sides".

*by the way, following up on the invocation of Hippocrates in the initial post: he certainly had some good ideas and was advanced for his time. But if we were still stuck in the HIppocratic era, we'd be trying to treat disease according to an imbalance of the four 'humors' (black bile, blood, phlegm and yellow bile)** and curing hemorrhoids by an application of red-hot irons.(which may have worked, at the cost of severe pain and infection).
**sometimes it seems like there's an excess of bile in this forum. ;)

This post was edited by eric_oh on Wed, Feb 26, 14 at 16:20