I imagine you're supposed to. It is a poison.
Whether or not you think you should is up to you.

Here is a link that might be useful: Rotenone

Thanks

What are you trying to kill? Maybe you can use something less lethal.

Scott

Just general fruit tree spray for bugs. Trying to be organic. Also thinking about BT if that is any good for tree use?

bt will kill most caterpillars and tent worms.

From the stuff I have read about rotenone is that you end up spraying 4 X's as much as if you sprayed imidan or a syn pyrthriod

I'm also not sure rotenone is any better then synthetic pyrethrins. Also I don't think a general bug spray is a good idea, you will also kill beneficials. If there is no pest you are after don't spray. If there is a pest you are after, look up or ask here about a good low-impact treatment.

Scott

I agree with Scott. Poison's poison and should be applied with some discretion for both practical and legal reasons.

Generally you identify a pest, determine threshold of damage and then decide what to spray. Only time I think a blanket approach might be justified is when you are targeting plum curculio, which can do so much damage so quickly that if you aren't checking daily you may be too late.

I'm frequently told Rotenone is next to worthless in the control of PC and when that was the only tool Garden's Alive used to sell Imidan. That should tell you something.

If you want to go organic or less toxic, I suggest you follow Scotts program.

I'm not telling you to spray or not, that is up to you, but take a look at the Rotenone/Parkinson link using google search. Plenty of research papers to go through.

It seems the general consensus here is that you spray your trees like clockwork.

The advice here sounds like 'if you see the bug damage it is too late.' Like the thread on peaches and seeing the goo emerge said.

So, just trying to keep ahead of the bugs. Do most of you go a season or two with no sprays to see what develops? Then you decide on what to use?

And are synthetic pyrethrins a lot safer to humans? Why are synthetics safer than organic?

Organic does NOT equal safe to humans...it just means it was derived from a "natural" substance, and wasn't artifically manufactured. Rotenone (from my recollection) works on the electron transport chain in mitochondria, so it's leathal to everything.

Fruitgirl is correct. Although the main organic certifying agency OMRI does somewhat take into account health risks. As I recall they currently don't allow Rotenone.

Synthetic doesn't automatically mean safer either. There are some synthetic products that I would judge safer than some organic, and vice versa. It's really a judgment call that can include a lot of factors: acute toxicity, carcinogenic potential (which is also an issue for natural substances) reproductive issues, and of course the effect on the environment. Here is a site you can look up some of that info. for just about any pesticide. I' reluctant to post this site, because I think they are a bit alarmist. Their attitude seems, the only good pesticide is a banned pesticide. For instance, even the organic pesticide spinosad, they list as a possible endoctrine distruptor, and possible developmental toxin. Nevertheless, they do have some good hard data on each pesticide.

Also residue levels can be an indication of toxicity potential. The Maximum Residue Levels Database are internationally accepted levels of pesticide residues on food crops, or in the case of the U.S., FDA accepted residue levels. For example, Spinosad has a Max residue level of 0.2ppm and Triazicide (gamma cyhalothrin)has a MRL of 0.5ppm.

Of course there are other factors involved (i.e. how fast the pesticide breaks down) Organic pesticides generally break down faster which gives less of a residue, but also means it must be applied more frequently.

Ultimately, you have to make the decision what to use, but to try to give some specific answer to your question, synthetic pyrethroids are considered one of the safer insecticides to humans, compared to other insecticides.

"It seems the general consensus here is that you spray your trees like clockwork."

I don't know where you get that from. I think the general consensus among sprayers is IPM, spray what is needed when it is needed. Pay attention so you know when and what is needed.
That does not mean wait a year and see what happens.

I am fairly certain I need an early curculio spray like clockwork. After that I can wait and see what damage shows. If I ever go a year without seeing curculio perhaps I'll hold off that first clockwork spray and see if I get any damage before spraying.
I know once I start needing apple maggot sprays I will need them like clockwork for a while, but I wait for my traps to tell me they're flying.
I know I'm fighting a losing battle with disease on one of my cherries. It needs clockwork. The rest can get an early clockwork spray and then wait and see.

Bug damage may be too late for that specific fruit but it's not too late for the whole tree. And for me it seems spraying a neurotoxin (synthetic pyrethrin) allows me to see some curculio damage without losing the fruit.

Perhaps Harvestman sprays on a clock since he is a pro that doesn't see the orchards he tends every day and his living depends on getting other people good looking fruit. But when you have the luxury of living with your trees it's not hard to be in tune with what is going on.

As Fruitgirl and Olpea said, the designation of a chemical being organic or synthetic is not what dictates how safe it is. Nicotine sulfate was once "organic" and is not a synthetic but it's very deadly.

My advice is the throw away the Rotenone. Its dangerous to you and everything else, and it is not USDA organic approved (anymore). If you haven't already considered it, I recommend looking into bagging (link below).

Here is a link that might be useful: Apple Bagging

My problem is that it takes me a week to cover all the orchards I manage so I can't completely rely on monitoring to time applications. I do listen to reports of when plum curculio is being observed in nearby commercial orchards- Cornell provides this here.

Actually I spray only about half the orchards I manage and the others are sprayed by a commercial tree care company I have enlisted. They are not competent to diagnose the needs and pests of fruit trees (as far as I know, none around here are) so I tell them when and with what to spray.

For the most part, the only insect I have to protect my trees from is plum curculio. In the course of managing this weevil I also control all other important pests- scab and CAR requiring fungicide in the mix, of course.

So, Keep, it's quite possible that if you keep the fruit protected for 3 to 4 weeks starting at petal fall you will be able to harvest sound fruit even if you can't identify all your pests.

Keepitlow, I didn't read this particular link about rotenone, but I wanted to add that several synthetic insecticides are linked to Parkinsons. Gardening, farming, and long-term use of well water when farms are nearby are also all empirically linked to Parkinsons. The risks are still very low, but it's worth mentioning to emphasize(1)it's not a matter of synthetic vs natural product, and (2)consider that respirator!

Thanks for the help.

No, have not bought any poison sprays yet. Will study it up some more. It all sounds very depressing for the fruit grower.

Have any of you found soap sprays useful against the tree bugs?

Soaps are good for aphids as far as trees go.
Just about everything has danger, just be smart about it.

Depressing is having to get dressed up in long sleeves, rubber gloves and a mask when it's 90°.

It's only depressing when you haven't worked out your strategy. You can go organic or synthetic. If you follow directions neither represents nearly as much risk as driving your car.

I have seen statistics comparing southern farmers who use a lot of pesticides to the general public and there was no difference in cancer rates or any other health issues that could be gleaned from the data. Farmers have got to be careful with those tractors though!