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Will repair work?

19 years ago

Hello all you tufa experts! Here's a good example of what impatience can do. I just broke the end off a trough I was unmolding and did a real half-a** job of repairing it. I mixed up a small batch of the HT I used to make it, slapped some on the edges and stuck on the end. It didn't fit very well (duh), so I just coated the jutting edges with some more - I don't mind the lumpy-dumpy look - then sealed it up in a plastic bag.

My question is, will this even work? Will it cure now as one piece or as a trough with a weak end? I was just soooooo frustrated because it was the 2nd unmolding of the night, my back was killing me from working on the floor, & it took me at least an hour to get it out!

If this doesn't hold, how do I fix it?

Thanks, Anne

Comments (17)

  • 19 years ago

    Patch it up at the cracks and give it a thin new HT coating to avoid the lumpy look.

    Buy a work bench :-), your back will thank you.

  • 19 years ago

    For a repair I would wet both pieces, and use a slightly more soupy mix. The rough edges can be smoothed off, the joint recoated. You will never notice the repair

  • 19 years ago

    Looks like yuo got the help you needed for the repair, so Ill address one other thing here. The work bench.
    then can be expensive to buy or make and they tend to get ruined pretty easy. Iv made several saw tables for cutting wood ro siding with a rotary saw, for cheap. I think ti would work well for a work bench as well.
    I use two saw horses and a hollow interior door.
    I do some remodeling and so they are cheap and easy for me to come by. as an alternative source Iv seen them for free on Craigslist.org, all over the country and canada. I take a 1x1 and screw it into the outter door edge on the long sides. Now you have a lip and on that I take a old tape measure thats busted its guts and screw it into the side of it so as I cut I can read the measurements out from the saw blade. I leave teh two short ends open so that I can slide longer boards in and out with ease.
    If I were to be using it for a work bench id leave those ends set up with a 1x1 so that I had a lip all the way around to keep my mess confined to it instead of my garage or patio since we are currently speaking about a messy thing like hypertufa and cement.
    a 2x4 across the boack side of the door on each edge and the center would give a hollow door all the strength you need for the work we are talking about. Because its light, and comes apart its easy to store when not in use. and The previous poster was right, a work bench makes alot of difference in your back !
    with this style if you got somethign to high to do comfortably you cuold lower the whole table to the ground to unmold it or coat it or what ever, and nto have to have it there for the duration of building it.

  • 19 years ago

    Anne, It depends on how "lumpy-dumpy" it is and when all of this took place. If you did the patch last night and the patch and the trough are fresh you should be able to take an old rasp or piece of cinderblock or piece of concrete or piece of brick and file down the "lumpy-dumpy" section. What kind of mold did you use that it took you an hour to remove?
    Depending on the size of the piece, I unmold in 24 to 48 hours and the piece is still damp and workable. You should be able to gently carve or file the piece in this stage. This is the best time to do repairs. If the piece is hard and cured you would wet both sides (edges) of the repair and place a wet mixture of the recipe that you used for the trough on the edges. Put the wet repair mix on thick and tape or tie something around the piece to hold the two pieces together. You want some of the patching material to "squish" out and pat it in place. Let it set-up for a little bit and spritz with water, not much. Cover with plastic to seal in moisture and let it setup but not a hard set. You want to be able to file/sand it with your rasp or brick.
    I've had pieces break and I sometimes just use as is, just looks like an old piece. Or let something cascade out the side and it will cover the whole thing. Billie

  • 19 years ago

    Billie - I unmolded after 55 hours. It was a cardboard box mold (outside), but the inner box was a wood wine box which wasn't quite big enough, so I added a 4 x 4 block of wood for length and a piece of 1/2"W styrofoam for width. All of this encased in a plastic bag sprayed with PAM of course. I think the problem was that it got wedge inside because I packed the bottom really well & the cardboard box bowed out a bit at the bottom more than at the top. Make sense? I managed to wiggle out the styrofoam, but the wood pieces were wedged in tight. I was trying to carefully scrape away at the inner sides when the entire end wall broke off. Of course, then I was able to slide out the wood parts.

    I patched the end piece on immediately using just a slightly more soupy mix, sprayed with water, and sealed it in a plastic bag. I really didn't want to mess this one up (I made 3 this month) because I had inserted a clay tile that my 7-yr old had made. Checking it today, I think it looks OK.

    I would'nt have minded a chunk being missing - like you did, I'd put a plant in it - but this was the entire end piece.

    Does anyone have a patched piece that has held up? Just wondering how long this might last.
    Could someone please tell me how to post a picture? I don't have software for resizing photos to insert and I cannot provide a link to my album because it's on Yahoo (which is banned due to ads).

    As for my back, yes, a workbench is in the works for me! I thought I was just experimenting with this 'tufa stuff, but I've got 4 troughs now, and somehow I don't think I'm done. Thanks to everyone for replying!!
    Anne

  • 19 years ago

    Put your pics on Photobucket. They have several different formats for posting pics. Just remember with this site they can use your photo without your approval. Billie

    Here is a link that might be useful: photo

  • 19 years ago

    Thanks for the link! I created an album for my HT projects today with photos of the stickman (tile) trough and broken repaired end, which seems to be holding up fine.
    Anne

    Here is a link that might be useful: Stickman trough

  • 19 years ago

    Anne, For all of these planters, 55 hours is actually a little too long. For your small and large troughs 24 hours is plenty of time to unmold. The troughs will be really green just handle them gently. You really don't need to put an inside box inside the mold. If you do use the two box method you do have to tamp the mix. You can see the line on your planter where the mixture wasn't blended in with the lower portion of the trough. This can creat a weak spot in the trough.
    If you like the two box mold you can use a cardboard box for the inside mold. Just cover the outside of the box with a plastic bag and fill the inside of the box with sand to weigh it down so it doesn't float or the sides cave in.
    WOW, you did a great job on the troughs, love the feet! I'm not into fairy houses but these are really cute. Nice work and great details! Billie

  • 19 years ago

    Thanks Billie! I waited extra long to unmold because I was worried about the strength of the troughs. I used a 1 Port., 1 1/2 peat, 1 1/2 perlite mixture - no sand. But obviously, the harder it sets up, the harder it is to get it out! Some things are soooo obvious AFTER you make the mistake:)

    You make a good point about not using inner boxes too. I needed it for the large trough, and just followed suit with the other two without thinking. We'll see how they hold up over time. I'm nuts about alpine plants, so I'll be all set for planting next month!

    Thanks for taking the time to look & give feedback. It has been so helpful and fun.
    Anne

  • 19 years ago

    Anne, I took a trough class a long time ago that was taught by Joyce Fingerut, past president of the North American Rock Garden Society and co-author of "Creating and Planting Garden Troughs". There's a lot of great info in the book, including contructing troughs, planting them and a list of alpine plants. I haven't been on their web site in a while but there might be something of interest to you in their links. Billie

    Here is a link that might be useful: North American Rock Garden Society

  • 19 years ago

    Anne, just took a peek at your photos, very nice! I especially
    liked your adorable little fairy house-great work! Wendy

  • 19 years ago

    Well you are having better luck than me. I made my first one yesterday and decided after reading this that I needed to go out and take it off its mold (after 36hrs). I had packed HT on top of a round pot. It broke in about 4 pieces. Maybe tomorrow I can fix it as it is too late tonight.
    What is the consistancy of HT? Maybe I didnt put enough water in it.
    Can I make a patch of quickete or straight portland cement or is it best to use a HT mix again.
    I used 1 part Portland cement,1 1/2 perlite and 1 1/2 peat.
    Does this take alot of pratice?

  • 19 years ago

    Use the same mix as in the trough. Wet the pieces and add mix like glue. If one of the pieces is too broken to reuse, you may be able to rebuild that part. It may have broken because it was slow curing because of low temp. Or you grabbed the edge when you rolled it over. Or chalk it up to experience and start over. I've done that many times.

  • 19 years ago

    thanks for the info. i am starting over because I must have done something wrong. When I picked up the pieces they are very fragile and break easily. How long can I leave it in the mold if I use plastic?

  • 19 years ago

    Justadncr, Put some sand in your recipe, even a half part will help strengthen it. How thick were the walls? Did you use a spray on release or plastic over your mold? All the details you can supply help others help you try to figure out the reason it broke.
    Whenever I make planters I always add sand. My basic recipe is equal parts portland cement, sand and peat moss. Billie

  • 19 years ago

    Justadncr - Leaving your piece in the mold for 36 hours isn't necessarily too long. You want to leave it long enough to set up hard enough to (gently) handle it, but not so long that it's permanently bonded to your mold. Depending on conditions, that can be 24-48 hrs or so. A good test is to see if you can scratch it with your fingernail. If you can make a mark, it should be sprayed with water & sealed up in plastic again.

    Remember that HT needs moisture to cure, but too much water can actually weaken it. You don't want water dripping when you squeeze the mix in your hand. You want it to be like peanut butter or like cookie dough. Use the same, but slightly soupier, mix for patching broken pieces, or as suggested, just start over.

    I used the same recipe for my trough (the one I broke above) that you did and just checked on it. It has been in a plastic bag for almost 3 weeks (unmolded of course)and it feels solid. I even lifted it from the broken end piece that I repaired, and it seems fine. Curing should be done slowly and many people leave their pieces in plastic for a month to increase strength.

    See the link below for recipes as well, so many of your questions can be answered there. Good luck!
    Anne

    Here is a link that might be useful: The Artistic Gardener

  • 19 years ago

    Well I did what you all suggested. Added some sand and sprayed the inside with WD40. I took it out after about 30 hrs and a fingernail test. I broke one small area but I made the mix thin and patched it. It has been two days and I think I have success!!!
    Thank you for all your help.
    Maybe tomorrow I will try a bigger one!

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