KJS,

Walmart and Home Depot sell a product called Triazicide - Once and Done Insect Killer. Like Permethrin, it is a synthetic pyrethroid. Triazicide (the concentrate, not the cyrstals) is labeled for pome and stone fruits, and can be used up to 3 weeks prior to harvest in apples. Triazicide appears to be very close in chemical make-up to the commercial product Warrior. My guess is, its residual power would be similar to Warrior (10 days to 2 weeks).

I searched a lot of PDF files from the EPA last night and couldn't come up with anything about apples after petal fall except not to do it. No explanation what so ever.
It doesn't make sense. I've put the stuff on my dogs before.

I'm going to try Permethrin with a sticker as close to blossom as I can get and then I'll probably alternate between Malathion and Triazicide through the year.
But I'm rather new to the spraying stuff.

Can permethrin or carbaryl be used at peatal fall on peaches? Or is it only apples that its a no no on? I am also looking to do some spraying early and then footying my peaches and I thought that permethrin was the best thing to spray. Was I wrong?

thanks,
Scape

The label I have on my Tiger Brand, Super 10 Permethrin manufactured by Cape Fear Chemical is registered for Apples and Peaches. There are some guidelines about how many applications per season and so many days prior to harvast.

As far as not using it after petal fall on apples, well that is an EPA requirement. EPA approves the labeling or should I say dictates the labeling. Why? Could be anything from how long the chemical stays on/in the fruit or tree or perhaps even a toxcity problem.

Most spray charts I have from extension agents list Malathion as the chemical to use after petal fall.

Scape,
You can search the brand of permethrin you plan on using and probably find the label online. You can also open the label in the store and read before you buy.

As far as I have seen this applies to apples and pears but can be used close to harvest on other fruits and vegetables. Which is the reason for the question.

Scape,

Carbaryl can be used on peaches at petal fall. However, I've used it close to harvest because of its short residual and PHI. Obviously, there wouldn't be much reason in mixing permethrin and carbaryl, since they are both toxic to most pests that affect peaches.

Scape,

Rereading your post, I see that you weren't planning on mixing the two insecticides anyway. My mistake.

Thanks guys, I appreciate it.

Scape

kjskjs:

The prohibition against use of Permethrin after petal fall on apples is a real puzzle to me. If the EPA has a real reason or reasons for this provision, I have never been able to find it, and I have looked. And I don't know why, if the reason is valid, it cannot be shared with consumers. I am always mistrustful when told not to do something with no reason given. Not only is info not forthcoming from the EPA, but university websites and other sources seem not to have any either.

Resistance buildup seems unlikely for a pesticide like this, so the only reasonable assumption I can make is that it has something to do with protection of beneficial insects, such as ladybug larvae feeding on aphids. But why Permethrin should be singled out among all other pesticides, many of which can also affect beneficials, makes no sense to me.

Certainly, the prohibition can have nothing to do with dangers of human ingestion, since Permethrin can be applied to crops like asparagus and crucifers nearly up to harvest, and I do use it on asparagus, cabbage and broccoli, though I can stop a full month before harvest of the crucifers. Permethrin is in fact a low-toxicity pesticide, with a relatively short half-life.

I never apply an insecticide, Permethrin, Carbaryl, or anything else on apples until after petal fall, first because I keep honeybees and don't want to kill them, and second because my target insects, mainly plum curculio, go to work only after fruit set when the blossoms are long gone. The only chemicals I apply when apples are in bloom are Ferbam against CAR and Streptomycin against fireblight, and neither of these affects the pollinators. If I were to follow the logic of the insert, I would not be using Permethrin on apples at all. I alternate on apples with Imidan with early sprays until final thinning and bagging in ziploc sandwich bags, but if I didn't have Imidan or practice bagging, I would probably use Permethrin all season long since it is effective on plum curculio and codling moth, which are my two major pests, while Carbaryl and Malathion have not worked for me.

Consider also that, among the target insects listed on the insert for apples are plum curculio, tarnished plant bugs, and Japanese beetles. None of these insects are active on my apple trees until fruit set, and the Japanese beetles show up much later, often not until the end of June and into July. Petal fall is a distant memory when I start to deal with these insects, so why list them at all, when they are not present during bloom? And if you want to protect pollinators, including honeybees, you certainly wouldn't apply Permethrin during bloom, since it is deadly to them.

I hate to say it, but my confidence is the EPA is less than complete. Consider that one of its sister organizations, the FDA, was unaware that the U.S. Peanut company was turning out products contaminated with salmonella at a plant in Texas they did not even know existed. And there were apparently 20 others peanut processing plants in the country whose existence was not known to them. When our government organizations cannot find something as large as a peanut processing plant, I am not too worried that an EPA inspector will put the cuffs on me while I am illegally applying Permethrin after petal fall.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

"I never apply an insecticide, Permethrin, Carbaryl, or anything else on apples until after petal fall"

That's what I was waiting for. So it's nothing like Carbaryl causing fruit drop or Malathion damaging Cortland/McIntosh.

Then all I can figure from reading the EPA pdf files is that more people grow apples and Permethrin poses a groundwater risk. I bet it has nothing to do with eating the apples.
I did see the part about groundwater close to a place where they lowered the rates on apples simply because lower rates were still effective.

I agree, it makes it fairly useless to spray the tree for curculio until fruit set. Their larve and/or over wintering adults will be in the ground. At best you would hit some eggs from some other target.