Me, too. I think if you use good garden practices you'll be okay. There's some old folks around town here that have had the same basic garden layout for years and their gardens look better than anyone's.

Below is an old thread on crop rotation that has some good information. As for tomatoes, Carolyn Male, the tomato aficionado says she's grown tomatoes in the same place for many years without problems. And she's grown tomatoes for a lot of years. Unless you encounter some serious disease problems you should be OK.

In the meantime, get a compost pile cooking.

Here is a link that might be useful: Crop rotation woes

My tomatoes get worse every year, despite amending and all that. Hornworms are now a regular problem. The first time I planted here, that wasn't the case at all - I had the best garden on the block.

So, I'm of the opinion that fungus etc can move into your soil and get a foothold .... Despite being a seasoned gardener and using good organic practices.

I heard something useful on the soil forum today. They said that if you put diseased plants in your compost bin, that any organisms that will normally fight off that particular disease will benefit. You'll end up with compost that is enriched for organisms that fight off whatever disease you had the previous year.

I don't know - but I think it's worth a shot. Instead of throwing out my sickly tomatoes, I'm going to put them in the compost.

Patty, I've never grown tomatoes in a warm climate like So Cal so I can't speak to that but there are less problems with diesases and such in cooler climates. I've grown tomatoes in the same general vicinity for 5 yrs now and with the exception of early blight I've had no serious problems. My garden is probably larger than zachslc but it's not THAT big. 2 yrs ago was my worst ever for hornworms. This yr I've seen none and I grew more tomatoes this yr than ever before.

My 2nd yr of gardening here I had terrible blister beetles on tomatoes...but I've never seen one since. My 1st year here I had a bad infestation of bean beetles. Then I never had a problem with them again till last year. Oh...and I grew beautiful squash my 1st year here. The following 2 years I was wiped out by the squash vine borer. I gave up on squash. I've never used pesticides in my garden either but this spring I did dust with rotenone once for the bean beetles because they attacked my beans early on.

I think the 1st year of gardening in a new place is the best for many people because the pests and diseases haven't found you yet.

Does that make sense?

:)

The only reason rotate my crops is because I cann't seem to get that perfect garden layout. This is my 4th year and I am always trying to improve where I grow each thing.
Also I change to get different amounts of veggies to can depending on what left in the spring.
I seem to have good years for things, like last year it was the year of the onion, this year I have tons of carrots. It was a bad year for my green beans, so I will allocate extra room for those next year.

Thanks for the info. Now that I think about it it makes sense that crop rotation wouldn't be so effective in my situation. My comaprison is to my mother's garden which consists of three large raised beds thoroughly seperated from eachother. She doesn't follow the most meticulous gardening practices and has had some terrible problems resulting from planting the same crops in the same boxes two or three years in a row. In my case, the whole yard is a potager-type garden with vegetables mixed with perennials and annual flowers, bramble fruits, and herbs. If I were "rotating" crops I would basically be moving the tomato patch (as I like to call it) 30 feet to the east, which, now that I reflect on it with common sense, would be an exercise in fruition. I make loads of clean compost and try to keep good garden hygiene. I suppose I can't do a whole lot more than that without ad hoc solutions. Thanks for the input!

AkaPeggy, there is something to be said for that theory. The longer we garden in a particular area, the more we tend to "collect" pests & diseases, and reduce fertility. There are things you can do to reduce these problems... but I have moved my garden many times over the years, and the first few in any location are usually the best.

For small gardens, the loss of nutrients & organic material is the most frequent problem. New ground usually starts with adequate organic material, but it breaks down quickly. As it does so, it releases not only its own nutrients, but acids that release minerals from the soil.

If this organic material is not replaced, the nutrients available to the plants diminish over time. Weak plants have lower yields, are less resistant to disease, and are more attractive to insects. Chemical fertilizers are a short-term fix, and only delay the inevitable. Replacing the lost organic material each year, through any of several methods, is the only long-term solution.

Just one word of caution... be careful about using manure throughout your garden. There are many threads on GW right now about those who over-fertilized soil where beans were grown, and got little to no beans. Plan accordingly.

As for disease control, a little prevention goes a long way. Be careful about what you plant. Seeds from reputable companies are most likely free of disease; seed obtained through swaps may have been collected from diseased plants, and should be examined carefully. Be especially careful of tubers, live plants, or anything that brings in soil from another location. Remove & destroy diseased plants _immediately_ (or apply an effective treatment), before they contaminate others, and before they shed spores into your soil.

There are those who will claim that composting diseased plants destroys disease organisms; but if not, you will only distribute any that survive throughout your garden as you spread your compost. Personally, I believe it's better to be safe than sorry. Burn 'em.

If a particular disease is causing problems (such as bean rust) try to plant varieties that are resistant; your county Extension office may be able to provide a list of resistant cultivars suited to your area.

For insect infestations, it can be tough. Removing all debris in & around the garden is helpful, as is turning over the soil at season's end; you don't want to allow insect pests hiding places to over-winter. If your garden is in an isolated location (no other gardens nearby) prompt destruction of insect pests when they first appear (and are in small numbers) may be effective. But if your neighbors grow any of the same veggies as you do, you could be in for a long battle. No amount of rotation will solve an insect problem in a small garden... unless you (and all your neighbors) stop growing their food sources long enough to get rid of them.

As mentioned above, some vegetables can be grown successfully in the same location year after year, _unless_ there are disease problems. Others (such as melons) will do poorly if planted where they were previously grown. If you must grow such plants in the same location, use liberal amounts of composted manure when planting. Use of a foliar fertilizer rich in micro-nutrients (such as kelp) may also be helpful.

In the end, there may be times when the best solution to a problem is to not grow a particular vegetable for a few years, and replace it with something less troublesome.

I've grown tomatoes in more or less the same spot for 25 years now and this year's crop is going to be a humdinger.
Good idea to plant a cover crop in September - I use winter rye. That gets turned under in spring and adds humus. I also dig in composted cow manure (can't make enough compost in my own heap). And I side-dress plants with 5-10-5 once they are up or as soon as set out. And I mulch. And spray with Daconil to control early blight.
I've a pretty small garden and right now it's showering me with tomatoes, zucchini, basil, hot peppers, Swiss chard and string beans. Sugar snaps ended in July and garlic was harvested in July and area replanted with cukes which are flowering and should provide more cukes than I need in a week or so.
Think I have less insect damage than I did when I first started. I do clear off the garden in October and add everything to the compost heap. Have never sprayed for insects - the birds seem to take care of most of them and Remay keeps off the squash borer and flea beetles.

Even very simple rotation is a lot better than none, I find. Just back-and-forth between a legume and a non-legume, for instance.

That can be done in even the smallest of gardens.

I had my "first time garden in a new home" several years ago and it easily had the least pest pressure of all gardens since - hope it works better for you. If you cannot practice a crop rotation in space, it is possible to do so in time. A reasonable approach might be to try your arrangement unless and until you encounter an increasing pest problem and then forego that crop for 2-3 years, rotating with some other, different family crop.

Yes, a new location or a rested one will tend to have fewer diseases and pests.

Yes, a new and deeply amended location for melons is best, but I have set out watermelons in the same spot for my daughter for six years in a row.........I only saw some of the melons...one must weigh about 38 pounds. Now I believe in removing melon residue and enrichening yearly. Also this Root Shield from Johnny's has worked very well for me against soil fungal diseases which were a distressing problem for me

Well,then there's the rain forest. Which has been around for hundreds of years and still flourishes. If a garden poops out it may be less about the plants and more about over tilling or overworking the soil.
In my own experience, the first year or two of a garden has been lousy due to our very clay soil here in the south. It usually takes a couple of years to get enough organic matter worked in to get it going good.
But I've never had a suburban garden, always been out in the boonies, fighting chiggers, poison ivy and blackberry brambles.

Raised beds and square foot gardening methods give you a much easier time of crop rotation/succession. When you pull a plant up, make sure that as much of the roots as possible comes out with it. Next, dig out some the surrounding soil and compost it, and simply re-amend that location. Lastly, plant something else in the place where you removed something else. The rotation/replanting can be as close as a foot away.

Wayne, what problems did you have before using the "root shield"? I have problems here with verticilium; it kills some of my beans, eggplant, and okra. Haven't checked out Johnny's website for this yet... hope it is an organic product.

zeedman,
I had trouble with fusarium wilt and "mature vine decline"with melons. This Root Shield is a special strain of soil fungus that colonizes on the roots and keeps other bad soil fungals out of the root system. Nature has simular fungals but not in enough abundance where disease pressure is heavy. It is mixed with the seed starting soil mix. I add a drench to the soil with the remaining Root Shield as the vines start to run. The stuff is somewhat short lived in storage.
Simular forms of this fungal can be mixed with the seed before planting. Remember, this is to treat [prevent] SOIL funggal diseases. I don't know about other diseases.

Here is a link that might be useful: Root Shield

Most of the nutrients are consumed by plants is during the vegetative growth. Keeping this in mind I usualy shred the plants at the same place after harvesting.This way I recover enough nutrients to keep the soil fertile.
Take the shear and cut down the plants at the planting site.
During next season I add grass clippings,use 10-10-10 fertilzer and spray miracle grow as per need.
Do not plant beans at same place next season, since beans will add nitrogen in soil and plantig beans again at same place will go in heavy vegetative growth and few beans or no beans.

Crop rotation is used to prevent soil desease certain things like nematodes and blight fungus will get worse and worse every year if you are unfortunate enought to have them, above ground things like deer and beetles will not be affected by crop rotation. moving crops around isn't te only way to rotate crops, to increse fertility you could plant soy beans and grow em, or you could put sweet peas in and grow flowers for a loved one.

You have to decide which of two schools of thought you want to try. Move crops around to avoid problems or move them round once you get a problem. Both have their adherents. My garden stays in the same place because I have no choice. Plots are very small here. But I do change the location of crops within the garden using three broad categories - legumes, brassicas and everything else. I also have an area of perennial crops like strawberries and asparagus which stays put.

I do rotate my crops and have found it very helpful. I had a problem with black rot with the Brassica family. Once I started rotating the broccoli, collards, etc. the problem has gone. I grow many nightshades and rotate these and the Brassica family so that they are not planted in the same bed for 4 years. Doesn't always work out, but that is the goal. I rotate light feeders with heavy feeders too. I have 7 raised beds in one area and 8 raised beds in another. The crops don't get moved a big distance. I never put diseased plants in the compost; I try to be open minded, but that theory makes no sense to me. With crop rotation it is important to be flexable. Each garden has it's own issues. I know many gardners do not rotate crops and that is OK. We all do what we feel is best; if it works, it works. One thing I've learned is there are many ways to garden. Enjoy.

Even in a four by four square foot garden you can rotate crops.

Crop rotation is used to prevent soil desease certain things like nematodes...

There is a lot of scientific research by universities proving that planting marigolds will eliminate nematodes within three feet of each marigold plant.