Hello. I used to have a 300 tree fruit orchard of which about 100 were apple trees, with the rest being peach, plum, cherry, pear, apricot. I prefer older varieties.

My favorite heirloom apples are the russett type. Roxbury, Golden, Zabergau Reinette, Hudson Golden Gem to name a few.
I love the feel of the skin, like dry paper on some of the apples and the taste is wonderful. Apple-y if that is a word. This year I moved to central Tenn. and I am starting over but only a few trees on my two acres. Nothing commercial this time. Just what I want to raise for myself.

I have planted 11 apple, 6 peach, 2 plums. Will be adding to that later with more apple, plum, pear and apricots.

I am doing an "edible landscape" type of plantings. Have 4 types of blueberries, 3 types of gooseberries, Nanking cherries, Hansen cherries. Lots more stuff on my list for the future.

Good Luck..

i agree with beardedguru- anything russeted is good. a few of my other favorites that should do well in your area are black twig, kidd's orange red, and chestnut crab. they are good for eating, pies and cider.

A good idea would be if you could taste them for yourself first. Try going to a farmer's market in season. Or if that fails, you can order a goodly selection of antique apples for eating from AppleSource in Chapin IL, run by Jill Vorbeck. They have a website, but I doubt they'd have anything this time of year. (Their sources are nearby farms in IL and IN.) Doesn't cost any more than a box of expensive fruit from Harry & David.
I can't tell you my favorites yet, because my trees are too small. :) Also depends on if you're eating fresh, making cider, baking pies, etc.

Gravenstein are wonderful - work well for every purpose, juice, pies, jelly, butter, and sauce, but especially for eating out of hand - crisp, juicy and tart - only drawback is they're an early type that doesn't stay perfect for long

golden russet and kidds orange are great too, as well as fuji and mutsu .... but you need to find out what works well in your area, not all will

Bill

if your summers are not too hot- cox orange pippin is unbeatable

I got interested in apple growing from buying apples from an heirloom orchard outside of Milwaukee. These apples are definitely unique (and superior, in my opinion) from varieties that are available in stores or most pick-your-own orchards, with the exception of McIntosh which is readily available and excellent. My favorites to date have been Newtown Pippin, Spitzenberg, Ashmeads Kernel and Cox Orange Pippin. My wife makes applesauce with Pink Pearls and this is very good. Chenango Strawberry has the most wonderful aroma, but does not store well.

Thanks for your help! I'll take a look at that Cox Orange Pippin.

I've never tried growing Cox Orange, but there's a lot of people who claim that they are traditionally pretty hard to grow. Not particularly vigorous, if I remember right. A few years ago (1946, I think) the Dutch crossed the Cox Orange with a Jonathan and apparently the result, which is called a Karmijn de Sonnaville, has all of the undisputed great qualities of the CO but is a lot easier to grow. It ranks as one of the most flavorful apples you can grow (in fact some claim it's *too* strongly flavored, whatever that means. Hmmm.)

Can't tell you from experience, since mine just went in this year. Raintree sells them as well as Trees of Antiquity and I think Cummins. Probably lots of other places, too. Not sure if they'd still ship to your location, but Raintree is blowing them out at their end of season prices. About $16 plus shipping.

Just a thought.

Don

Cox's Orange Pippin is disease-prone and is supposedly not a good apple in areas with high summer heat. Don, Karmijn is also supposedly not a good hot-weather apple. And, Kidd's Orange Red is a third. I am now testing this hypothesis and growing all three, but no data (apples) yet. The ones that get the best recommendations for hot summers are Rubinette and Queen Cox. I've also heard good things about Holstein. All three are children of Cox and have inherited good flavor attributes from it. I'm growing those three as well (plus a couple more Cox descendents) -- soon I'll have some real answers.

Scott

Oops I threw too many apples into the "poor in heat" pile - Kidds Orange Red is supposed to do better in heat than Cox. It gets russet streaks which makes it not marketable today. Carduus, I would recommend one of these better in heat Cox-types in your climate, it can get pretty hot there in the summer.

On this general topic, I also like the heirlooms with the more earthy anise or licorice or pine flavors, which have faded from popularity. Doctor Mathews, Pitmaston Pine Apple, Ashmeads Kernel, Golden Russet, etc. I believe these are all good midwest apples.

Scott

I tried Holiday at a pick your own orchard last year. The first apple tree I ordered this year was Holiday from Trees of Antiquity. Obviously no fruit yet, but I can't wait for that taste again. Crisp and flavorful. Tree is looking great so far (on M111.) We also planted a Newtown Pippin and McIntosh.

From this catalog:

http://www.southmeadowfruitgardens.com/FruitTreeCatalog.html

HOLIDAY - A high quality, fine flavored dessert apple, raised in 1940 by F.S. Howlett and recently introduced by the Ohio Agricultural Experiment Station, Wooster,Ohio. A cross between Jonathan and Macoun (McIntosh x Jersey Black), it has inherited the good eating qualities of its parents with the rich flavor of Jonathan and the white juicy flesh of Macoun. Shiny bright red over yellow skin with a prominent bloom and prominent dots. It ripens late, mid October. Season November - January. One of the best new varieties during the Christmas holidays.

I planted 20 whips last year to make an espalier fenced garden room. 20 different varieties. The only one that didn't make it was the Cox's Orange Pippin. I'll order something different to fill that space this fall or next spring. I'm leaing towards Grime's Golden.

Of the heirlooms I've tasted Ashmead's Kernal is my favorite eating, Black Arkansas makes a great applesauce, but a combination of Black Arkansas, Liberty and Ashmead's Kernal makes an even better applesauce. The BA melts away and the Ashmead stay's chunky for a sweet and complex applesauce that will blow away anything from the supermarket.

Get lots of apples!

Waiting the next few years until my apples are bearing age is going to be difficult. Fortunately, there is an orchard nearby with a good selection.

Ellen

Carduus:

As an apple grower who went through an "antique apple" phase (heirloom is for seeds), I would suggest that you keep an open mind and also consider some of the better more modern cultivars before making your final selections for planting. That is not to say that you should exclude consideration of antique varieties, but you should be sure to try them first, and to understand the special disease and physiological problems they may bring before planting them. Nursery descriptions from people who sell these cultivars are not reliable sources of information.

The principal objective is to plant apples that are appropiate for the use you have planned for them, that you really enjoy eating, and that are best adapted to your location and climate whether they are antique or modern. Quite a few antique apple aficionados consider the russeted apples to be the peak of perfection, but more people think they are off-putting, which is why they have disappeared from the commercial market. I like them myself, when the underlying apple is good, but they are often difficult to grow.

The Holiday apple described above sounds very good, found, as it was, in Ohio where you live, but Southmeadow Fruit Gardens is not, repeat not, the place to buy them or anything else. The list of people who have sent Southmeadow their money and received nothing is very long. I purchased some trees from Southmeadow years ago, in the days when they were actually filling orders and shipping out trees, but ownership has changed and now they just cash your check. Good luck if you order from them.

I still have quite a number of antiques out there in the orchard, including Ashmead's Kernel, Kingston Black, Albemarle Pippin, Virginia (Hewes) Crab, Cox's Orange Pippin, Kandil Sinap, Yellow Transparent, Calville Blanc d'Hiver, and Pomme Gris, as well as some moderately antique types like Stayman Winesap. Some of these I planted with the specific intention of blending them into the cider I make in fall. But for fresh eating, I like Pomme Gris, a small, russeted French apple, best of all. Some antiques, like Esopus Spitzenberg, turned out to be so horribly susceptible to fireblight that I took them out. Others, like Calville Blanc, have been very shy bearers. Albemarle (Newtown) Pippin is a very hard, decent tasting apple, and keeps well in refrigeration longer than nearly any other, but Fuji also keeps a long time, and is a better fresh eating apple. Yellow Transparent, a very early summer apple, has always been our number one apple for applesauce, and makes wonderful pies, but it would not appeal to most people for fresh eating because of its tart character.

All I am saying is go slow before you get totally wrapped around the antique apple axle. To get an idea of some of the problems I have experienced growing just one antique variety -- Cox's Orange Pippin, see the adjoining thread.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

Thanks for the advice about Southmeadow. I actually ordered my Holiday (and the Newtown Pippin) from Trees of Antiquity and so far it is growing great. I ordered the McIntosh from Miller. The Miller tree was larger, but so far the trees from Trees of Antiquity are growing better.

I have never tried a russeted apple. Do you think that your Pomme Gris would grow well in the Midwest?

ali

ali:

I have no way of knowing whether Pomme Gris would do well in the Midwest, but maybe so. It is from France. The problem would be to find a source for this apple. The only one I know of is Orchard Lane Growers in Gloucester, VA. I can send you a scion in the dormant season if you want to try grafting.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

I don't want to send this off in another direction but I started a belgium Fence espalier a few years back and this is the first year fruit has set and was wondering what type of espalier euglossa has started. But to help those who want a good old apple try Smokehouse it is a Lancaster Co. Pennslvannia apple, best flavor I ever have tasted. The fence has a combo of old and new apples . Honey Crisp best new apple, Minklers Molasses 2nd best old apple but real hard to find Good luck and taste lots of apples before you plant

The provenance of Pomme Gris is not so clear, it may in fact be a Canadian apple. It has been grown successfully in Canada for a very long time and Jefferson grew it at Monticello as well. It should do well in the midwest. I have a tree I purchased from Cummins Nursery and they may still be selling it.

Scott

Well I checked and Cummins is no longer selling it but Vintage Virginia Apples is. I got my first tree from them this spring and I was really impressed with the quality. Their prices are high though.

Scott

Here is a link that might be useful: Pomme Gris

Be very selective if you have many cedar trees nearby. I planted several old heirloom types and all are suffering from cedar apple rust problems except the one non-heirloom "Liberty" apple which does show some tolerance to it. My poor Mutsu is so yellow now from CAR that it's looks like an Aspen tree :(

Regarding Pomme Gris. It is certainly midwest hardy. I have one planted in zone 4 in western Wisconsin and it has been growing quite well for at least 5 years. It has fruit on it for the first time this Spring, so I can't tell you what it tastes like. I think I got mine from Fedco in Maine, but they don't have it in their catalog every year. They also only have it on standard rootstock, although they will sell you scion wood if you want to graft your own. - Steve

Applianceguy,

I put in a lozenge fence-four feet between trees with a double Y, so each tree will have four branches-a pattern someone here suggested a couple of years ago when I was planning this. A total of 20 trees, enclosing a 'room' about 20 feet on a side. There is one tree at a 45 degree angle beyond one corner, leaving a sort of open door space for the entrance. Eventually I'll put a gate up there. I'll train the two trees on either side of the opening with several branches to fill in the lozenge pattern. I'd like to have branches cross over above the gate also, making it a space tall people have to stoop a bit to enter.

I'll have to replace one tree, the others are doing very well and need some training work this weekend.

I cleared out a bed about 3 feet wide along the 'fence' line and mulched it. I'd like to plant some daffodils along the borders of the bed this fall in hope that it will act as deer repellant, but more realistically because I think it will look nice.

How old are your trees? I've read they will fruit quite young, but am afraid to believe that.

I have more espalier plans for the future.

after I planted my trees I came across another espalier pattern that has two trees planted very close together-maybe a foot apart, trained as horizantal cordons, but with each layer twined in the center, so every other horizontal branch crosses over to the other side and alternates between the two trees.

I still want to plant quince, asian pear, almond (there's a guy working on hardiness here, so someday, but not yet for that), plum, peach and maybe cherries and I wonder if any of those would take to a horizontal cordon. My reading leads me to believe that none of these would do well with such a strict pattern. But the idea of horizontal alternations between green and blue plums or yellow and brown asian pears or red and yellow cherries is very appealing.

The others I plan to train to a simple fan shape, but I really want at least one of these twined horizontal cordons-and I really don't need any more apples.

Ellen

I bought my Pomme Gris from Kuffel Creek Apple nursery as a bench graft last February/March, by asking for it, even though it wasn't listed on their website. They special ordered the budwood. The little tree is a healthy three foot whip now, doing great so far.

Here is a link that might be useful: Kuffel Creek Apple Nursery