Well, yes and no. Community gardens by another name - - of course, in some places, the government is required to have "alloted" space for vegetable gardens. I'm all for it!!

For 6 years, I had a garden in a community garden setting. I think the entire concept works better in Europe than the US because of the historical precedents.

Steve

I have gardened on my allotment for 16 years because my garden at home is VERY small. Many of us do not need to 'pack (our) car or truck and drive to an allotment to get (our) gardening done' because many allotment sites are close to our homes. Even if they have to drive, not many people would go more than 10 or 15 minutes away. Posters here often talk about driving for an hour to get groceries or garden supplies. Fifteen minutes to an allotment doesn't seem much by comparison - and it's much pleasanter when you get there. Lots of us also walk or cycle. My allotment is five minutes walk from my house. I can go and get veggies for meals only a little slower than if I had a big garden at home. However, if is cold or wet or dark it can be a bit of a deterrent. Remember the UK is a small and densley populated place and walking is more feasible. Many of us have sheds to keep tools and equipment. I am not allowed a shed because my plot is in a conservation area (ie an area of historic buildings where development is restricted). But I do have a large lockable storage box where I keep everything I need. Remember also that irrigation is not such a problem for us, so even in summer it is perfectly possible to visit once a week or even once a fortnight and things will just look after themselves in between. Also you need to consider that gardening here is not quite so frantic in spring and summer when you all seem to be rushing to hit the exact correct time for last/ first frosts etc. Our seasons are much less separate from each other and we can afford to be a bit more relaxed about putting jobs off. The window of opportunity to get things sown, planted or harvested is pretty long. In winter I might go there every two weeks just to get greens, pull a few weeds and take the compost collected at home down to the allotment piles. It is also nice to meet other allotment holders for a chat, to exchange ideas and to share a beer or two on the grass. I am really lucky with the location of my plot. It is directly behind the diagonal row of houses running across the centre of the photo and my home is one of the houses on the right hand side of the same picture.

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:110387}}

Flora do you blog as well...I really love reading all the blogs from or by the English/UK gardeners...

I think Flora put her finger on precisely why "allotment" gardening isn't common in the US - artificial irrigation is percieved as a necessity. To get an equal result in output as from a british veggie garden it is necessary in most years. If one leaves crops at a certain time of year un-irrigated for a fortnight, one takes a chance at having little harvest.

Though I have a home garden that would probably seem adaquate by british standards, I also indulge a deal of effort in what is effectively an allotment, as it is publicly-owned land which I rent for a nominal fee. It's an acre, though I only use about 3000 sg ft. In a dry year like this one the output is pretty small. Primarily it's a useful space to maintain important homestead-type varieties and has turned into a de-facto experiment in dry gardening. I've learned quite a lot about that, information which could prove valuable.

I suppose you are right...when it comes to watering, I have nearly always had to water continously to have any kind of garden here in TX...However this year, the only watering I have done is sprinkling a seed bed until seeds sprouted...this year, gardening in my area of TX has been a whole different thing....

I was thinking about this just the other day while walking in my garden...My Dad never in his gardening years watered the garden until he was an old man and had a small garden...It was always left to nature and we always had freezers full of food....I also was looking at a tomato plant of mine...one branch had escaped it's cage and was sprawling across the ground....My Dad died at 85 and gardened till the end and I would be willing to bet he never staked or caged a tomato....They always sprawled on the ground and you had to watch your step when you were picking tomatoes....I don't know if he did this intentionally or not but I suspect that he just didn't have the money to buy stakes or cages and let them do the natural thing..I know there was always a lot of damaged tom's but there was always so many, it didn't really matter if you lost a few...Gardening has changed a lot since I was a little girl...mostly people did it back then because they had to and not necessarily because they loved it...now people do it because gardening is in their blood...At least I know it is in mine...

When we lived in northern Indiana we rented about 1/4 acre of garden space behind another trailer park. We lived in a trailer park two miles away. Irrigation was not permitted and the soil was very sandy. That's when I really got into mulching and learned to garden organically. We had wonderful crops. That was one of my favorite gardens!

This summer, in our part of Oklahoma, we had tons of rain for the first half of the summer and at least 1 1/2 months with extreme high temps and no rain at all. We watered only very little, mainly pole beans which I wanted to nurse over for a fall crop.

I believe I'm never going to learn as much as I would like to, about dealing with these conditions. But I am inclined to do a lot more work on adapted varieties and specific timing for plantings. This is my second year to garden in Oklahoma and I'm realizing that timing is crucial for certain things!

I gardened in two distinct climates in Mexico. One was a high cold rainforest and the other was the high plateau desert. In both cases, I can relate to Flora's comments about the wider window of opportunity for planting. It was wonderful!

George

For the better part of my gardening life, I have used OPP (Other People's Property) for the majority of my vegetable crops. Twice this was a community garden... but after many losses due to theft, I vowed never to go that route again. Instead, I arranged to use vacant land in exchange for services, usually property upkeep & security. It is a system that has been very successful, and I highly recommend it.

For one thing, in an urban setting, few can afford the land for a large garden. I have nearly always had a garden at home... just not a big one. But there is always vacant land, and sometimes all you have to do is ask.

I gardened behind the factory of a former employer; they liked having me keep an eye on the property after hours. In another location, I gardened in a utility easement (beneath power lines) in exchange for cleaning up trash left by BMX racers who also used the property. While working on a military base, I was allowed to garden in a field, in exchange for keeping the field mowed & free of trash. And at my present location, I garden on the property of a family friend, in exchange for veggies & a gift certificate to their favorite restaurant each Christmas.

At each of these locations, I had water provided at no charge. Several of them also allowed me to run a power line, to operate my electric fence.

There are elderly property owners, who are no longer able to keep up their property, and might allow gardening in exchange for yardwork or help with home repairs... and a little companionship. You might find not only a garden, but a lasting friendship.

My "allotments" over the years have ranged from 800 to 10,000 square feet in size; they have allowed me to grow things I wouldn't have the space for otherwise, such as large plantings of corn & squash. For apartment dwellers & those with little land of their own, borrowed land offers a good solution.

I like that "OPP (Other People's Property)," Zeedman. I guess I'm still community gardening then. Our home in town has too small of a yard so my gardens are in 3 other locations. I pay for water only in one. In the largest garden, the property owner MUST pay the water district for irrigation whether he uses it or NOT. He is no longer interested in such a large garden and travels a good deal during the growing season.

There are PLENTY of places hereabouts where property owners allow local farmers to grow crops on their land. In some cases, the property owner gets nothing, zero, not 1 red cent! Where I know this to be true, irrigation water is not available and the fields are small. The farmer just cannot make enuf $$ farming the land to pay a fee. The property owner wants to have the ground clear of weeds but that is about the only concern.

With a reasonable approach to gardening - conscientious care, few weeds, and a bounty to share - many people with land are willing to welcome a gardener. References help . . .

Steve

Yes, I think the fact is that OPP for gardening purposes is much more available in north america than in britain. There is far more suitable land sitting around vacant.

What's missing is interest and ambition. However, after eight years of gardening a vacant and distant piece with a reasonable amount of ambition, I'd have to say it's a marginal enterprise. Two miles away is too far, even though I pass by it often enough. Deer are a scourge - and they are a problem in most parts of NA. How much money and effort does one invest in infra-structure on land one doesn't own and may lose the use of? I've put up a crude 4' barbwire fence but I'm not going to put the money into an 8' deer-proof fence. Not with no water on site. I could have the use of probably dozens of sites in my county but I don't know of any that would have deer-proof fence or water. If it did the owner would have a line of professional growers begging to use it. Some might actually pay a real rent for the privelege.

I think the best allotment or OPP options are in small town settings with empty lots and enough activity to keep off the varmints. I'd love a nice flat lot next to some commercial building with water to use. Then I'd only have to worry about human herbivores - I doubt they'd do as much damage as deer.

I am always so impressed when I hear or read about community gardens. They are usually in big cities like Chicago or New York and have wonderful stories about the people who garden or visit there...We have plenty of land and I would gladly let someone have a garden space but they would be faced with the deer situation that PNB mentioned ...They are very tame here in my neighborhood and even with a dog inside my fence they will walk up to the fence and eat...

Although, the idea of having an allotment is appealing to me, it seems like it would be tough is Texas. I have considered trying it though.
My father-in-law has talked about buying a little land north of Dallas to raise honey bees. I thought it would be worth a try to plant things like corn, beans, squash, and melons. I fear yeilds would be very small though.
I like the idea of using OPP in the city. I'll be scouting my local area now. I especially want to try corn, melons, and more squash, which is near impossible in my small backyard. Thanks for the suggestions zeedman

Pete

I'm somewhere in between, since on weekends I garden and live on a rented property. There is water, a necessity. But fencing deer out (and, this year, adding a finer-mesh fence to keep out voles) was not a big hassle; it probably took a total of a week of work and a few hundred dollars. The payoff in several years of happy gardening has been great.

If it were just a question of land, it would be tempting to buy a couple of acres of undeveloped land with water and put up a basic warm-weather shelter. Has anyone tried that?

Some community gardens in New York City, by the way, are rife with personality clashes and resentments. I hope human nature is kinder in the UK since you're working at close quarters with other gardeners who might get in your way or on your nerves, shirk their duties (or so you say), etc.

Personality clashes? Between humans? You must be joking, I've never heard of such a thing.

But are community gardens as exist in NA cities quite the same thing as the traditional british allotment system? I have no direct knowledge of either, but my impression is that urban community gardens are usually run like a non-profit business or co-op, with an employee or agency in charge and doing most of the work. Rather than split up into little individual fiefdoms as in the allotment system. I think the latter system is the better one; good fences make good neighbors.

From what I have read also there seems to be a real honor system and total respect for the allotments and the stuff on someones allotment...No one bothers with some one else's property....Can you imagine leaving your tools and veggies and equipment on an allotment here?...If nothing else the vandals would have a heyday and the local police would probably laugh at you because they would consider it a crime that they just didn't have time for.

NYGardner, your "couple of acres of undeveloped land . . . and . . . a warm-weather shelter. Has anyone tried that?" Yes, village farmers across the length and breadth of the Earth, over millenia of time.

RuthieG, community gardens can be wonderful places but I'm not sure that I found a wonderful vegetable growing experience there. We had the deer AND the two-legged varmints.

I once arrived at the gardens to see a stranger picking a box of vegetables. He was a really big guy and seemed totally unconcerned that anyone would find him there. I called the police and after nearly an hour of watching him lazily pick thru someone's garden - I left. The police never arrived even tho' this was city park land and they regularly cruise the parking lots.

It is disheartening to find damage to one's garden. It is doubly disheartening to know that a fellow human did it deliberately. Thievery is one thing and I've had someone I found in my garden tell me that "it's all God's gifts" (he left empty-handed after I cast my most "judgmental" look upon him ;o(. Vandalism is something different - it reflects disrespect for hard work, conscientious care, and our desire to give others, at least, the benefit of a pleasant view instead of trash-covered landscape.

What I most enjoyed about the community gardens was the community of gardeners. They are critical to success by any measure. And, any organization interested in administering a community garden would do well to cultivate the gardeners and leave them to the tilling of the soil.

Steve

I can only speak from my own experience, as different councils run their allotments differently. There are definitely issues with theft and vandalism in some areas but luckily I have not suffered from it much. I have had the same plot for around 15 years now and have had one spade, one rake, one fork and one reel of hosepipe stolen in two separate incidents. The tools were left leaning against a compost bin by a footpath and the hose was coiled up amongst the soft fruit bushes. I have never noticed any crops being stolen or vandalised. The plot itself is actually half of the original allotment size. All have been divided to allow more people to use them. I don't know the exact measurements but it must be about 125 - 150 square feet. I have a green gage tree, raspberries, black and red surrants, gooseberries, strawberries, Jerusalem artichokes, rhubarb and perennial herbs like rosemary, sage, thyme, fennel etc as permanent residents. At the moment I am harvesting Autumn raspberries, runner and French beans, chard, lettuces, herbs, kale, courgettes (zucchini) and beetroot. Over winter I will have kales, sprouting broccoli, rocket, chard, leeks and chicory. The first spring crop(other than the winter ones which keep going) will be broad beans (favas). The climate means there is something to pick almost all year round and sowing and planting happen in many months. I have given up on potatoes because they always get blight and take up too much space. There is a tap right beside it for watering if necessary. (I hit the jackpot here because when I took it on there was no tap. Then along came the council and laid on water, placing a tap right beside my plot. The next tap is 5 plots away.) The rent is now around £30 per year which includes unlimited water, regular dumping of leaves collected by the council for gardeners' use and mowing of the grass around the perimeter of the site. Plot holders are responsible for mowing the grass paths between each plot. There is an Allotments Association which has a scheme for selling cut price materials and seeds but it is the council which governs the site and oversees the rents and waiting list. You must have at least 2/3 of your plot cultivated and the rest under control or you will be sent warning letters and ultimately evicted but what you cultivate and how you do it is up to you. Relations between plot holders are civilized but by no means universally cordial. I still do not know why the chap on one side of me doesn't speak to me any more but most people are very friendly. For example a neighbour tied up my tomatoes after a storm and we swap plants and produce. In return I have helped her dig out tough old plants which she can't manage. It would be very hard to imagine another plot holder damaging or stealing from your plot, although cases of feuding have been known in some places.

Finally, no I don't blog. Just post on garden web if I think I have something to add.

I would love to have a community garden or allotment near enough my house to use. Although I have a decent size yard, I also have a lot of trees, as do my neighbors, which means I have very little sunny ground on which to plant. (And in Texas, cutting down or even severely trimming shade trees is usually not a pleasant option.) So if I could go somewhere within a few minutes' walk or drive, I would leap at the chance.

For a few years I grew veggies on a piece of land owned by a friend some 10 miles off. He had a huge garden and let me use a fairly small corner of it. And if we had surpluses we shared. Then I got my own place and life became a lot simpler. I suspect that plenty of gardeners/farmers would be willing to share if someone asked.
England, and other European countries, have a long history of people living in villages with plots of land outside the village for growing crops or grazing animals. Not like here where homes are strung out each on its individual lot and distance between them much further.

Flora, do you really mean 100-150 sq ft as in 10x10 or 12x12? It's hard to imagine everything that you mention fitting into that. The british allotments I've looked at on youtube seem to average something like 30 feet wide by maybe fifty to a hundred or so.

My home garden is probably about 500 sq ft in it's most productive area and that seems quite small. My allotment or rented land is an acre but I till only about 1500 sq ft. That's really more than I can handle with limited time and hand-tools only. I pay ten dollars a year for it, but there's no water and the deer come free of charge.

The drought this year was unparalleled since I began there eight years ago. I checked on it today for the first time in three weeks or so - looks like absolute hell. Strangely though, the only total failure is winter squash. Parsnips look a bit ragged but the roots look fine although won't know for sure until we taste them in december. Lutz storage beets also look rather sun-beaten but some have sized up reasonably and they taste ok. Dug up some potatoes to see how the yields will be; definitely looks like less than usual but not markedly less (potato yields are never good there). Walking onions, those dauntless fear-naughts,are unfazed. Mustard has sprung up from one rain. The red russian has nearly no bug damage.

So extremely dry isn't necessarily so bad.

You are quite right, pnb. I can't do my sums. The plot I have is about 5 yards ie 15 feet wide by 15 yards ie 45 feet long. Thus 675 square feet. As I mentioned it is half an official plot. Just been down there in a persistent drizzle to get beans, kale, chard, courgettes and herbs. But it's much too wet to tackle the grass paths with the mower. Nothing remotely resembling a frost here yet.

Neither here, likely won't have first frost for five or six weeks yet. We had a half-inch of rain the other night, much needed and fortunately came over six-eight hours so it could soak in well. Many persistent drizzles would be still be very useful.

Question: why do the Brits apparently not grow walking onions?

Answer: they do, but we call them tree or Egyption onions and they are not very common. My favourite veg book (Joy Larkcom - The vegetable garden displayed) describes them as very hardy but very low yielding. I think that the fiddle of dealing with small bulbs in the kitchenis is also a disincentive.

Yes, the small bulbils are about useless in the kitchen except at the green (skinless) stage. Their usefulness is as a large very early scallion.