Well I'd say you should till the garden and add in a bunch of shredded leaves and a bit of bonemeal. You could also add your compost now, it doesn't matter if it's completely finished as it will finish composting in the garden over winter. Then cover the garden with even more leaves. This goes for both areas. In the spring use a fertilizer that has some nitrogen in it before you plant.

However, whether to till or not depends on the type of weeds you have growing. If they are annual weeds with no seeds they can be tilled. Perennial weeds with tap roots like dandelions can be tilled (although it would be better to pull them). But if you've got a perennial weed that spreads by rhizomes, DO NOT TILL. If you chop up the roots then all those little pieces will sprout in spring and you'll have a worse mess than you have now. So pull up weeds with rhizomes. Also pull up any weeds you see with seeds on them.

To know if you have to add lime you'll need to have a soil test done.

Rodney

If it were my garden, I'd be doing my darndest to find out why my garden did so poorly before planting another. Soil type, drainage, results from a good soil test, planting methods, fertilization, weed control, and other factors can all come into play.

Have you taken advantage of your Rutgers Extension service?

Gardening is like reading a map in that the first step in figuring out how to get to your destination is to decide where you are starting. Start with your soil to find out what you are working with. You may think you know the answer to that question, but you really need to have a soil analysis, with a recommendation for improvement. Too much fertilization can be almost as bad as too little. Now is the time to take those soil samples and get them into the lab before they get busy. That way you have the winter to form a battle plan. Start with your local cooperative extension service.

Dealing with weeds is an endless battle, but it will get easier. Again, you have to know what you are dealing with. Identify the weeds you have and their growing/seeding habits. As the forgottenone well pointed out, what you have determines how you are going to deal with it. If you have seed heads now, get them out of the garden. One plant's seed will make your job much more difficult next year. Realize that there are cool season (spring) and warm season (summer) germinating weeds. My wife and I seriously attacked our weeds a couple of years ago and are seeing some serious results. We're not weed free by any means, but the decrease in weeds has been astounding.

We try to stay as organic as possible, and some may disagree with this, but we found it necessary to use some herbicide (like glycophosphate) to help us get on top of things. This will kill anything green down to the roots, but is not supposed to have a residual.

A weed, like any plant, has to have top growth to feed the root and sustain the plant. Even if you only keep cutting off the top growth, you will eventually kill the weed.

Tilling your garden is one way to eliminate the top growth, but if the weed you are dealing with spreads by root, then cutting up the root into a million pieces will only give you a million new weeds to deal with. That's why it's important to know what weed(s) you are dealing with.

After you figure out what weed(s) you are dealing with, it may be beneficial to till this fall. The more humus you can get into the soil, the better. And it makes no difference if your compost is put in this fall or next spring.

Be careful about leaving leaves on your garden overwinter as they will hold in moisture and may delay how soon you can get into the garden in the spring.

Some of the crops you grew this year do well if direct seeded into garden. Others need to be started as transplants. There are many good sites that you could research over the winter to help you decide if you are going to direct seed or use transplants. One that I particularly appreciate is Johnny's.

Happy gardening!

Here is a link that might be useful: Johnny's Selected Seeds

The easiest way to deal with your problem. Black Plastic.
Cover the whole area, pin down the edges, wait till early spring, better still till the area first, then water well.
The Black Plastic will warm the soil, starting most of the weed seed, but without light they cannot grow, so will die off.
If you can wait it will also kill of most perennial weeds. I eliminated bind weed with this method.

So here is what I'm getting:

- Get a soil analysis and how to improve
- Figure out what type of weeds I have somehow
- Till if they are annual weeds
- Do not till if perennial and make sure I pull them
- Figure out if there are seed heads and remove if there are
- Once the weeds are taken care of add mulched leaves
- Then add my compost and more mulched leaves

I have a few questions from what I gathered.

When I add mulched leaves, compost and more mulched leaves, do I till that all in this fall or let it sit until spring and till then?

For my new pumpkin garden, I'm assuming I should follow the same steps even though it is mostly grass?

Lastly, what about the black plastic? Would that be beneficial? I do have some very large rubber I could lay down to cover both gardens. Would I lay down mulched leaves, compost, mulched leaves over the gardens and then cover with my large rubber?

Your plot looks pretty promising to me. My weeds make yours look puny, though. It is not too late to sow cereal rye (you can plant whole rye berries from the health food store). It's the only cover crop that germinates well in cool soil, and it builds organic matter while deterring weeds. You could sow it in strips and pile on organic matter during the winter between the strips of rye. Improving soil is a slow process, so you want to keep it up year round.

I grow my pumpkins outside the garden in a planned compost pile that I make in spring from weeds, old mulches, etc. I include two layers of chicken coop litter for nitrogen, and the Grow Heap is 6x4 by 2 feet tall by the time I'm done. That's enough space for 6 exuberant pumpkin plants. This year's pumpkin heap produced over 100 pounds of cooking pumpkin, not bad for a no-dig method.

Whether you choose to add the mulched leaves and compost this fall or next spring does not matter. I would not leave either untilled, however, because they hold water (normally a good thing) and it may be later drying out in the spring.

The black plastic idea is a good one. It goes on last. The leaves/compost go under it. I don't know about the rubber you have. I would be concerned about any chemicals leaching into the soil.

That really isn't a very big area to deal with, kelby232. I would just dig it over with a fork or spade (not a shovel)and weed as I go which is what I will be doing with my own plot in November. Turn in any manure or compost you have or spread it over the top when you have finished. It doesn't really matter. Leave the soil in large clods. Winter frosts will break them up leaving you with a good tilth in the Spring.

In addition to what Flora said, I would Also give it it some form/shape, character and identity.

This post was edited by seysonn on Wed, Oct 9, 13 at 7:34

So I'm hopefully going to have a busy weekend.

Here is my plan of action:
- Rake up the TONS of leaves I have on my 6 acre land
- Rake up the TONS of pine needles (pine straw)
- Try to do what Flora said and dig up the weeds
- Mulch my compost and leaves and place on top of my garden
- Till the compost and leaves into the garden
- Cover the tilled garden with leftover mulched leaves
- Start working on my pumpkin, gourd and squash garden
- Start working on my raised garden design

I will try and take pictures as I go along to update my progress. I plan on making my current vegetable garden into a raised vegetable garden using a design I found from "growing the home garden" listed below. Money will be tight so it won't be that high of a raised garden bed. Most likely just 1 layer high until I get more materials.

I will be using the pine needles (pine straw) as mulch for in between the raised garden beds.

Here is a picture of the design I will be following:
{{gwi:116190}}

Here is a link that might be useful: Growing the Home Garden

This post was edited by Kelby232 on Wed, Oct 23, 13 at 13:37

Sounds like a plan. Don't forget to include a soil test.

The one thing you don't want to do with raised beds is walk on them. You want to be able to reach into the middle of the beds without stepping in them. I'm 5' 11" tall and 4' wide beds are at the reach limit for me even with access from both sides. So if you're shorter than me, you might want to make the beds 3' wide instead of 4'. This is just something to think about.

It will be unavoidable to step in the beds meant for corn, so I'd leave them the size they are.

Rodney

The only problem I see is the 2'wide paths. Think about getting a wheelbarrow full of compost down between the 3x4' and 8x4' beds. That's fine, but now turn to dump them.....ya gotta step in another bed to maneuver it around to dump it!
If you could make the area outside your 6x4 and 8x4 at least 3-4' you would have great access to all of your beds!
I'm suggesting this from experience! I didn't leave enough space and have to struggle to get compost to a couple of my beds.
Nancy

Now you are talking: Designing and organizing.

ABOUT RAISED BED SIZES:

I would combine a lot of those 2 x4 s and 3 x 4 s into one(5 by 4 or 6 by 4). IT IS COSTLY to make/frame so many small raised bed.

Hold on the needles, for now . They can make the best mulch. Just till in as much leaves(Oak, maple >>.) a you can.

For the raised beds frames you can use old pine logs. I have don that.

If you burn wood in stove or fireplace, spread the ashes in the gardens.

I am sure there are farms that will let you haul manures for free. Do that two.

Another thing that is importan is to get a professional soil analysis. Most counties provide that service free or at a reasonable cost.

You've gotten a whole lot of good information and suggestions here. Some of it sounds conflicting, but mostly it's not. Read all you can on these forums and in gardening books, especially those written for your region. You will quickly get the whole picture. I like your plan of action!

I garden in raised beds too. I agree with seysonn that you should combine some of those small beds into one long bed. You'll get a lot more planting space that way, and will save work and money on edging them out.

If I were you, I would divide your six foot wide corn/bean beds into two three foot wide beds side by side, but with a 3' path between. When you get raised bed soil in great shape you will sink to your ankles in it if you walk in the beds. You can still get pollination in your corn if you plant the two beds side by side. And, you'll have much easier access to beans in a 3' wide bed.

I also agree that four feet wide will be too wide for raised beds. Three feet to three and a half feet will be far better. By reducing your beds to three foot widths, you can pick up another foot in your 2' paths. I have three foot wide paths between my beds and that is perfect. I have no trouble getting my wheelbarrow in for any job I want to do. Four foot wide paths is a waste of planting space, in my opinion.

I also agree with the comment on pine straw. It is truly wonderful mulch. Since you have lots of leaves, use those as soil amendments and save the straw for mulch on your paths. ALSO, use it as mulch inside your beds. When you set your transplants in the beds in the spring, like tomatoes, peppers, etc., immediately put a thick layer of pine straw mulch over the entire surface of the bed and around your plants. This one thing alone will reduce your weed problems dramatically. When you plant vining crops, mulch the entire bed except the hill where you plant the seeds. Then as the vines spread, they will grow over the mulch. Your fruit will be clean and your bed will be weed free. See? The only time I ever plant a bed without mulch is when I am sowing the entire bed as a block like carrots or crowder peas, with no rows or paths in it. When I do this, I am always reminded why mulch is so great. I have to pull a lot of weeds until the crop plants get large enough to shade them out.

I think your plan looks really great. With a little tweaking, it will be a garden to be proud of. Best of luck to you!

So another update on my vegetable garden.

I filled out the design plan I found with what I will be growing and wanted some feedback on the plant placement.
I know that corn grows tall so I'd want that on the northern side of the garden so it doesn't shade the rest of the garden. The rest I am not too sure about.

Here is the filled out design:
{{gwi:116193}}

Here is my plan to upgrade my existing garden to the design shown above as well.

{{gwi:116195}}

I am cutting down most of the pine trees but I am worried about the tree on the north side because I am not cutting that one down. I won't have true raised beds yet since I don't think I will have the materials. I'll just be putting the raised beds in but most likely only 6 inches high so the plants will still be using the soil on the ground and not in the raised bed yet. I am worried how the tree will affect the corn on the north side.

Thank you for the feedback. Please let me know if I should move my plants to different beds as well.

Very good. Pine trees shouldn't be a problem (1) if they don't shade too long or (2) you are not planting under their canopy.

Raised bed is no necessary, Unless you get A LOT of rain and your soil has poor drainage. You can slightly hill them a bit (By adding soil from other location) This way run off water won't get into your gardens. I used to lay down old pine logs wherever needed to hod the soil and prevent erosion.

Finally, Now is the time to till in all kinds of leaves. I would use a lawn mower to chop them first in a pile. Just remove the bag, closed the chutes. This can help better mixing and faster composting over winter months.

Good Luck !

I didn't read that anyone mentioned it but may have missed it.
Pine trees increase the acidity of the soil and by the looks of the trees you have they have been there a while. So i also concur with getting a soil test. I use a simple litmus test for measuring the acidity in my soil.

Personally i never use pine needles on my garden. They encourage fungus growth in my experience. I'm not sure of the science behind it but speak from many decades of vegetable gardening.
Ralph

Ralph ... I think all tree roots and leaves/needles acidify soil, not just pine. I have used pine straw as mulch and never have had a problem. The advantage of pine straw it that it don't get wet and mushy, as opposed to leaves and wheat straw. Also, they make a good soil amendment, IF you don't have serious LOW pH problem.

Like you said, I also do think that a soil test is necessary at this point. Then if soil was acidic (pH less than 6. 6.8 being ideal) it can be corrected to some extent by adding lime, tilling it in and letting it work in during winter months.

But it is up to Kelby to decide what to do or not to do. To establish a garden one has to make some investment in time, efforts and money. I said INVESTMENT not EXPENSE. expense goes but investment has return.

Kelby: you've gotten a lot of good advice. I just want to add that using leaves for compost or adding to the garden will work much better if the leaves are shredded. You can use a lawn mower to do this as suggested. I have been using a leaf blower that has a reverse setting so it acts like a vacuum and shreds them while picking them up. This has been a wonderful experience. Huge amounts of leaves are turned into manageable amounts of ground cover with a small amount of effort. I got my leaf blower for $60 from a hardware store. If you don't shred the leaves, they can become a matted mess and take more than a year to breakdown in your garden.