Can't see the trees structure, so can't advise how to prune. The plant likes whatever you're doing, though.

Maybe I would tidy it up some by pruning back those long branches, Then maybe we could make a pruning/repotting project out of it next summer? You can cut this plant back at the appropriate time to nothing but a bare trunk and it will bounce back quickly. There's a thread around somewhere that shows how hard I cut the plant back without the plant missing a beat.

Al

Grace, you have done a wonderful job with you Doll, theres alot of info on this post for you to read.
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/houseplt/msg070032111656.html

Christine - I did read that thread! Thanks! :) I didn't realize until that thread that this plant would be ideal for gritty mix so I did a mental note to repot it near Father's Day into GM. Right now, it's just in ProMix HP....and I'm watering very infrequently, though I noticed that these days, it's drying out MUCH faster than when I first planted it and watered every 2.5 weeks or so. Now, it needs water about every 10-12 days, I think.

Al, here's the plant from the side:
{{gwi:107085}}

It's not that it's so big -- but rather it's wild with random branches reaching far beyond where it really should, given the overall size of the plant. But I'm not really sure where to snip to prune, because some of the branches that need pruning have their first available leaf node outside the main circumference of the plant, as shown below.

{{gwi:107086}}

{{gwi:107087}}
Assuming it has to be pruned at a leaf node -- there's almost no point to pruning it there, no? Seems to work against my objective to prune it there and have it branch there, making it even wilder beyond the main body of the plant.

So I was wondering if this plant is okay with being pruned shorter on these branches where there is no leaf node...

As you can see, the spurts are random here and there:
{{gwi:107088}}

I'd like to keep it more...compact and even, if possible. I'm sure it'll continue spurting out growth randomly but I'm not sure if it's okay to prune back randomly. I do turn the plant every 2-3 days in an attempt to keep it circular, haha -- but it's not really working!

Grace

Select a branch or compound leaf that is long. Starting at the branch tip, start tracing the branch back toward the trunk. When you come to the first triifurcation (where the branch splits into 3 - like a trident) prune it there ONLY if at least 1 of the other parts of the trident is in bounds or can be pruned so it is in bounds. If you can't prune it so one or both of the other parts of the trident remains in bounds, you'll prune the entire branch off after continuing to trace the branch further back until you either get to the next trifurcation, where you'll search for a branch or branches that are in bounds, or you arrive at the trunk where you will flush-cut the entire primary branch. Flush-cuts are a no-no on trees in the landscape, but are fine on trees we're not concerned about failing mechanically and falling on someone's head, house, or hammock, 25 years from now. They reduce scarring and ugly stumps of branches looking to poke you in the eye (figuratively).

Al

This post was edited by tapla on Sun, Oct 19, 14 at 21:38

As you are finding out, these are fast growing plants. You are giving it what it loves, bright light and water. So it will get BIG. These aren't normally a counter plant for long, they get pretty large pretty fast, you really don't want to prune it as it is just growing up...

Quite the opposite is true. Pruning a plant while it is young and still nearly all dynamic mass is much easier on the plant than waiting until major decisions are required later to change its course. It's only through selective pruning (or poor health) that the plant can be enjoyed as a table-top specimen for any considerable length of time. The plant responds extremely well to regular pruning, whether it's light pruning to maintain its eye appeal or harder pruning to force the plant to conform to whatever vision the grower might have for it.

Al

Ayy, sorry, Al - I never got notified of your reply from the other day.
Could you explain what you mean by inbound?

Is this outbound -- as in leaves pointing out?
{{gwi:107086}}

And here -- none are inbound, if that's the case...yes?
{{gwi:107089}}

So do I prune at the pink or cut off at the black area to remove the branch entirely -- which is what you're describing as a "flush cut"? To prune at the pink really does not clean up the plant, but then to cut it flush is...unnerving, lol.

Sorry - having a slightly hard time understanding (or picturing) exactly what you meant. :)

Cooljjay: I don't mind it becoming a floor plant eventually but I'd just like it to look not so much like a drugged out crazy woman with wild hair in the meantime, haha.

Wow, I'm in awe. I have a little china Doll, emphasis on "little". It was in a west window, but only got sun late afternoon. I moved it to a south window so hopefully it will do better. No yellow leaves, just no spurts of wildness like yours is displaying.

Good job! The way yours grows, it would spring back from pruning in no time.

I should have written it as 'in bounds', instead of 'inbounds'. My intent was to help you determine how to prune if there are branches sticking out beyond the bounds you visually establish for your tree based on what you think looks good. There is a method to pruning the wild branches sticking out of the main lines of the plant. You establish an imaginary shape for the tree and anything that sticks out beyond that is out of bounds. The pruning instructions are to help you effectively prune the branches back so they are in bounds.

In your picture with the added arrows, you would prune at the pink if that brings the branch back within bounds. If it doesn't, you can still remove one of the 2 branches remaining at the pink arrow if THAT brings it back in bounds. If it doesn't, go further back until you find cuts that DO bring the branch back within bounds.

Sorry for the confusion - entirely my fault for not being clear enough. It's not an easy concept to relate when it's not a hands-on situation. It's easy to illustrate with something to use as a pointer and lots of hand gestures. ;-)

Al

Al,

Thanks to your instructions, I pruned her last week and she looks much neater now, not so crazed. With the sun drtopping drastically, which I am really not liking haha, I put her on the floor but it's marble....soon, it will be too cold and I'll have to place her in the living or dining room.

I decided to keep all the top growth and clean up the sides for now. Seemed a shame to take off so much new growth off the top.

She looks happy! :) Thank you!

Oh, and I took most of the tip cuttings and potted them up. Healthy mama maybe equals healthy babies?
Anyway, six days into it, they look relatively nice. Note my makeshift ghetto greenhouse, lol. I open it up about an hour everyday.

Jasdip,

Thanks! Mine is also facing west. A real oddity about my house is that that there are no windows facing south or north -- none!

Hopefully, the increase of sunlight helps yours. I'd tell you my secret if I knew, lol. I really let it dry out before watering, and then I water the hell out of it, leaves and all. Every other watering has some fertilizer in it -- Foliage Pro.

That's all!

Sugi, it looks awesome, you did a great job !!!

Help. I received a China doll at my mother passing. Moving from funeral home to house, I think it got frostbite. I don't want to lose this pretty little plant for sentimental reasons as well as beauty. It has been 1 month and it seems to die more each day. It dropped about 2/3 of it leaves and many of the stems dried and died. What is left, the leaves are turning brown and brittle. No new growth. I keep the soil moist, indirect bright light and mist for humidity. What else can I do to save my doll?

Sugi - how is your plant doing?

Mcarr - there isn't much you CAN do unless you want to go into full rescue mode - which would find you lifting the plant from the pot, inspecting the roots for rot issues and correcting as needed before returning the plant to the same or smaller pot. A more passive alternative would be to STOP WATERING and wait. The soil should be barely damp at the bottom of the pot - never wet or soggy. Wait until the soil is almost, but not quite completely dry before you water. Keeping the soil wetter than barely damp decreases the likelihood of survival. If you see new growth popping out in 2-4 weeks, there is probably a good chance the plant is salvable. Test for moisture with a sharpened wood dowel rod stuck deep in the soil. If it comes out wet, dark, cool on your wrist - no need to water. Keep the plant warm and in bright light but not direct sun. Keep your fingers crossed.

Al

Thank you Al. I have been watering when top inch or so is dry. I will decrease the water. The roots looked good as far as I could tell. The soil it came in seems to be heavier and stays damp longer than my other plants. I don't want to re-pot as articles I have read say CD 's don't like that. Definitely keeping my fingers crossed, any advice is welcome.

There aren't many plants that don't like a repot when being rootbound is the only other option. I'm at work, so don't have free access to all my pics & stuff, but I've taken CD roots down to almost nothing and chopped the top back to almost nothing with the only reaction from the plant being a short period of (maybe 2 weeks) sulking before resuming normal growth. First though, you'll need to get it back to a state of vitality where it will TOLERATE a repotting, so I see maybe a summer potting up in your future and the suggestion you consider a full repot in the spring of '16.

If you're using a soil that retains lots of water, and the pot is several inches deep, the top of the soil can feel dry while the bottom of the pot is saturated. You should try to guard against that sort of condition by only watering when the bottom of the pot is almost dry. Drought stress is still stress, but it won't rot your roots. It's better to watch for the first signs of drought stress (wilting) and water when you see it than it is to over-water. Using the dowel pretty much eliminates both potentialities.

Al

Hi, Al! (OMG, what happened to Gardenweb!?!)

My China Doll, thanks to your advice, is growing like gangbusters. I've made two extra pots full of the cuttings, too--and they're all alive, though I can't really say they're "growing" any bigger. For the last 5+ months, they've just remained the way I put them in, so I suppose if they ain't dead, they're alive, yes?

It's time to prune the thing again. But I'm thinking I should also give it a bigger pot because I have no interest in repotting every six months. I chopped that thing down to nubs and given how fast it gets dry, I'm thinking it's all filled up again.

It's the only plant where I have yet to see one less than perfect leaf, ever. Healthiest thing ever. I'll post some photos tomorrow.

How do you get to the forum on this thing?!

Hi, Sugi - nice to see you back, and I'm glad your plant is prospering under your care! More when you show a picture. You can get to the forums by going to Houzz home page, then clicking on advice. The page that comes up will have a link to the garden forums. Houzz takes some getting used to, but after everyone got used to the new format, they found it actually has some features GW didn't have. It took a week or so for me to get fairly comfortable with things, and now I navigate with nearly the same ease as GW offered. I see by your pic you're much younger than I and probably much better 'connected', so I believe you'll be up to speed in no time.

I'll watch for the pics.

Al

Hi Al,

Just a quick phone camera shot but I suddenly remembered I said I'd take a photo of her.
I root pruned her a couple of months ago when repotting her into something bigger as she was outgrowing her pot too quickly. I've also since changed her spot from a west facing window to this north window giving her all day ambient light only, in hopes of chilling her out in growth. :)

Time to snip off the tops, huh?

Look at you go! What a good job you've done - you must be very pleased with the result of your efforts.

BTW - the ghetto greenhouse you mentioned upthread is a LOT less ghetto than mine:

Ain't she purrty? Notice the removable roof vent.

Al

Haha, Al -- that is pretty ghetto! :) What is that in there? A baby bonsai in the making?

That's the top of a large Ficus salicifolia (willow-leaf ficus) bonsai that needed shortening, so I figured, "Why waste it?" ;-)

Al, she's so ugly. I don't know how to fix her.

She is hogging up prime real estate in my house with eastern direct sun and southern all day ambient light. She grows no problem but the more I chop at her, the uglier she becomes. Reminds me of the time my mom cut and permed my hair in sixth grade.

Maybe I should chop her down to nubs lol.

Oh and interestingly, all of the cuttings rooted though I saw no visible growth, it was just suddenly drinking water daily like I hadn't just watered it. I pulled it out and noticed it was totally white with roots everywhere. Good, right?

Yes, except then I repotted them into a slightly bigger pot and they all killed themselves LOL!

I can't help if I can't see the branch structure, but I'd be selecting 1 trunk line & eliminating all wayward growing branches. Now is the time.

Man! You grabbed a hold of some new ideas and never looked back - now look at you go - like a shooting star.

You could defoliate it completely & then take NSEW pictures. Maybe we can figure something out. I'll be tied up for the next few days, but I'll ck back on Sat to see wassup.

Al

DEFOLIATE.

I am intrigued. I have never defoliated a plant on purpose and it sounds fun!

:-D

I will do that this week!

I recently did it to my Schefflera. It returned out well, I think. It also helped me decide where to whack it down to so I could make two main branches instead of one long one.

Don't mind the puny guy on the right, he's just trying to take root. Iade the main cut after the rest of the foliage started to come back.

Defoliation is exhilerating....unless you kill something. Then it's depressing.

Defoliation is just another tool you can use to achieve specific ends. It does come at a cost in that it temporarily arrests development and slows growth, and represents a significant reduction in immediate potential. When you do it, you should be doing it for a reason, and only to healthy plants that can tolerate the stress. There isn't much sense in defoliating for its own sake. Most healthy/leafy plants can be defoliated entirely, and in return will put on a flush of new, pristine foliage, but those new to the procedure might want to ask someone familiar with it if their plant is a good candidate.

Al

OK Al,
It's not a complete defoliation yet, but I'm halfway there. I realized I don't actually know how to defoliate--snip off leaves or take off all out reaching branches? leave a stub or snip it off flush to the trunk?

So I played it safe and took off the lower leaves and stems but left nubs on the branches lol.

I want this plant to look pretty. Lush but not crazy and wild....if that is possible! I see four new stems growing in --which I am guessing I don't want, right?

I hope these pictures help you to determine what I am to do. If not, please tell me what shot you need!
I'm kind of digging this tree form LOL! :)

Here is the album so Houzz doesn't flip all the photos.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/sffood/F731s8

China Doll has a bipinnate leaf, which would be like compound leaflets on a compound leaf. Technically, a bipinnate leaf is pinnately compound but the leaflets are further divided into pinnule. The main stalk of the compound leaf is called the rachis and stalk between the first leaflets and the rachis is called the petiole. You can defoliate this plant by cutting through the rachides (plural of rachis) about an inch from where they attach to the branch. The rachides will drop off in a week or two.

If it was mine, I'd defoliate and prune it back to 1, 2, 3, or 5 trunks. Personally, my preference would be 2 or 3. When you decide what you want to do, lets talk about it before you make the leap to forum pioneer. I'll help you chose which trunks to keep & which to X.

Al

Just to confirm, since I'm not exactly clear, this is correct? X marks where I would've snipped if this was stuck to the main stem, right?

I am okay with 3 stems.
I can see which ones are most aggressively growing--should those three be it or do you pick by design? There are also three that are technically the straightest. Perhaps I should have split these up more when I repotted...

And the tiny sucker branches, I cut down into the soil? And the big stems you tell me to cut down---also just snip at the soil line?

Thanks, Al!

Forum pioneer, LOL!!

Yes, X marks the spot.

For best look:

You want the tallest stem in the middle or to 1 side. If in the middle,, you want another stem you can cut down to about 2/3 of the tallest on one side and a stem you can cut down to about 1/2 the tallest on the other. If the tallest isn't in the middle, you want the 3 stems to be tallest, 2/3 tallest, 1/2 tallest in that order, but you don't want them all to be in the same plane like fettuccini noodles standing in a row. The thickest stem you keep should be the tallest, the second thickest should be 2/3 the ht of the tallest, and the thinnest 1/2 the ht of the tallest.

When you sever the unwanted trunks/stems, you should dig down in the soil and cut them flush to the trunk or root they're growing from, or 1 stem will turn into many stems and you'll have a mess. Bonsai practitioners have special tools for that work - tools meant for cutting flush - know any?

Al

Like this, Al?

In case you can't see it, the middle is tallest, 2/3 to the left side and half on the right. That, I hope is what you described?

Now do I cut off all the branches, aka rachides? Lol Or do I leave these on?

Thanks for the instructions! This is fun, for me anyway! :)

Also, I didn't cut down the tallest. And then 2/3 and 1/2 is based on that. Shall prune the growing tip off the tallest and trim accordingly?

In nature, the fattest stem would be tallest and the thinnest the shortest. If that's not how you did it, leave the foliage on the tallest branch until next spring. The extra leaves will make it fatten faster than the other stems. If the other 2 stems don't follow the 'taller should be fatter' rule, leave foliage on the appropriate stem to fatten it up.

Bedtime/readtime in MI. I'll ck on what you're up to tomo.

Al

Oh Al!

"She be growing back!" :)

Nary a hiccup with this girl, thanks to you.

Grace

Rockin! I'm enjoying keeping an eye on what you're doing with your plants. I just posted some info and pictures on a thread about side shoots on a rubber tree here @ houseplants [(Click me and I'll take you there!)[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/how-to-force-side-shoots-on-a-rubber-tree-dsvw-vd~3052597), and I think it will interest you.

Al

I don't know what Al will say, but I want to guess...let it grow until next spring and then reevaluate unless it just gets unruly before then but we are going into winter and it may need those little power factories with the lesser amount of light available in the winter time.

I think there's a 48.7% chance that you channeled Al correctly, Lati. LOL

I think that was sound advice, at least that's what I'd do if it was my tree. Looks good - good job!

Al

Yes, it actually looks like a tree now!

Good job, everyone!

Girl, it takes a village for me to grow a plant, LOL.

Nah, you had the growing part....it was just out of control lol.

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><md>Ok wise people!! Help me. I love this plant but she keeps dropping leaves and the foliage is just getting higher and higher. I like the tree shape but would prefer the growth to start lower... should I cut at the trunk?? Will she forgive me?? It is also being attacked by mealy bugs

Photo to go with my post

How forgiving your tree is depends in large part on what approach you take to reverse its decline, and timing plays an important part in determining how enthusiastically your tree will react to your ministrations. Let me know if you want to make a plan that will begin with eliminating the mealybug problem and entering into a discussion about what's going on in the root zone. In addition to my offerings here, it's likely I'll offer some links to short (short in comparison to a book, but longer than the average GW/Houzz post) articles/posts I wrote, which you can read at your leisure. Sound like something you're up for?

Al

Al, Erryn! Going to follow this interaction :), I have a tree that's been dormant and rootbound, help needed to make it really happy for the next season.