Asking price is $350.

I have a Snapper Hi-Vac from that era and it is equipped with the ninja blade. I think it mulches pretty good. Can't say anything about the 2-stroke, because all mine have been 4-stroke. But, I have heard good things about them. I personally think that Snapper is one of the better lawn mowers around.

i have a snapper with the same engine . its a fairly good engine for a techumche. the only drawback is it it might not have enough power to make a good mulcher . if you try to mulch thick grass-it will struggle but works well in light grass and great for leaves

I wouldn't be afraid of the engine except as Dan stated it may not have the torque to go all out. If you don't mind backing down a bit on ground speed it should serve you well. The big old Ninja blade uses up the power but mulches well.

I have a Snapper with the 2 cycle tecumseh engine and that engine was a BIG piece of junk. Also had a cousin with one - same deal. Hard to start, not enough power for mulching and the worse thing was the carb would not hold the engine at a steady fire when on a slight slope. It was VERY picky when it came to fresh gas.

I have NONE of these problems with my Lawnboy.

Having said that, I trashed the 2 cycle tecumseh and plan on retrofitting with a 4 cycle briggs.

Snapper makes a GREAT mower and rear drive and heavy duty deck, but I just don't care for the tecumseh - but you may have better luck with it and it might be a good 2nd machine.

Good luck,
Bill

Bill I may be wrong but suspect yours may have been a newer model that got into the emission era and has no carb adjustments. This 93 should have a fully adjustable carb on it making it much easier to get it to run at full potential.

even the older 90,s units didnt have carb adjustments and every thing leeve said is true except mine have benn the easyist starting motors i have ever seen . i pull always. they are pretty fussy about the gas/oil mix -a high quality 2 cyc oil is a must or they tend to foul plugs. one must remember this is a techumche engine after all!

Thanks guys,
So to sum up, it seems as if there is:
1) nothing a 2 cycle, steel deck, '93 recycler, Snapper can do better than a 2 cycle, aluminum deck Lawn Boy. (weight penalty, possible carb problems, short on power for mulching)

2) There is no good reason to pay that kind of money for a unused mower of that era (for a second mower).

Any one else who disagrees, comment now, while I keep my wallet closed as I look around for a good used, 3 speed, 2 cycle Lawn Boy.

if you ever see a snapper with the wisconson-robin 2cyle-buy it! this is the best snapper ever made. best 2cycle engine ever made -even better than a lawn boy or toro suzuki. for 350$ you can buy a very nice used lawnboy 3 speed-good hunting!

lawnmowerdan,
As a matter of fact, I do know of someone not far from me who has (or had) 2 wisconsin -robin 2 cycles for sale (under $100)? Both of them were self propel and in running condition. I did not take a look but I will now, per your advice.
Now what is so great about Wisconsin- Robin Snappers? Don't Duraforce Lawn Boys outpower them? Aren't Toro Suzukis more durable (as confirmed by the number of landscapers using them)? Can I mulch with them or just bag? What years were they made?

By the way, I also know of two guys (one in CA, the other on the east coast) with 2 cycle Echo mowers (mid 90's model years) I believe, for sale for about $100. The east coast one may be sold by now. They both are in like new condition (I have seen photos). They have aluminum deck and 4 1/2 HP Echo engine - yes Echo, plus a bagger. Anyone know anything about these mowers? Are they worth more than a collectors item at this price? Interesting story about the CA one. The guy I spoke to buys and sell storage containers. He bought the container and the mower was left in the back of it when he bought it. I did not believe the deck was aluminum, but both he and Echo swears that there is such a thing. Should I buy it? Why?

i would avoid the echo mowers. these never caught on here in the us and my boss had 2 and both were plagued with problems. i still have one of the engines in the back of my garage. getting parts will be impossiable as they have been out of production fo almost 20 yrs. robin 2 cycles out last even the famous suzuki and are even more trouble free.they were aval on the comm snappers up till 2005 when epa regulations forced snapper to switch to 4 cycles only. parts are still aval for them tru any snapper dealer. i have 3 still running and all are well over 10 years old (commercial use!) only one has worn out and it lasted 15 yrs of continues use. yes the dura-force is more powerfull but it has carb and ing module problems. the echo mowers used alum homelite bodies

lawnmowerday,
Thanks for the info. Did Snapper ever make a 2 cycle mower with aluminum deck? From what I understand the drawback of the steel deck Snappers is they weigh half a ton (well anyway, 100 -130 lbs). My wife sometimes mows the yard when I am out of town - I think that would be the first and last time using one this heavy!

Snapper did make their rear-discharge aluminum deck with the Robin engine. However, be aware of a couple things. The steel Hi-Vacs aren't as heavy as you've heard, especially with the Robin engine (modern OHV behemoths like the Kawasaki FJ180V or Robin EH18V make _any_ mower feel heavy!). They might weight 90lbs, probably less, and are well balanced. Plus, with the full differential on all Hi-Vacs, they are very easy to maneuver and therefore IMO feel lighter than their weight suggests. OTOH, the Snapper aluminum deck I believe is actually heavier than the Hi-Vac. It's a very thick-gauge aluminum, and I believe the Tuff-Torque transmission (same or very similar to the Toro 3-speed Prolines) is also heavier. It certainly _feels_ heavier, and the transmission doesn't completely freewheel when pulling backwards or turning. In short, I don't think you're going to find too many mowers that are easier for your wife to use than a 2-cycle Hi-Vac, except maybe a Duraforce Lawnboy with Personal Pace (or Easy Stride? What's it called?). The 2-cycles have the added benefit of generally requiring less effort to pull the starter cord.

the 2cycle was never offered on the alum. deck. just the behemouh big block wis 4 cycle which is indead a tank! as matt says the hi vac steel isnt that heavy and is actually lighter than many other preimu m self prop. mowers. eaiser to manuvere too. the alum rear discharge is a completly diff mower and 30 lbs heaver than the hi vac. i have never used one so i cant say how they are preformance wise but are supposed to excel at bagging wet grass. one other thing to consider-if you have to deal with leaves -you want a snapper! no other mower comes close to mulching -bagging leaves. i use the lawn boys and toros to cut grass but for leaves its no contest -the snapper is far superior

lawnmowerdan: "the 2cycle was never offered on the alum. deck. just the behemouh big block wis 4 cycle which is indead a tank!"

Oops, I guess you're right. My mistake. FWIW, Snapper now makes that aluminum rear-discharge mower with the Kawasaki FJ180V, which is equally huge and heavy. Ariens appears to make a mower _very_ similar to the aluminum rear-discharge Snapper. It's the same deck and transmission, with some detail difference.

Guys, I don't mean to crash you're conversation but how do you identify the Robin 2 cycle engines on the Snappers?

Were they used only on commercial models or were they also used on some residential models?
The reason I ask is I've seen some in a mower pit with 2 cycle on the shroud but they have some metal air cleaner cover that looked pretty stout, more than I would expect from a Tecump.
They were on residential units from the 80's or 90's hi-vac models. I've always heard good things about the W-Robin engines and would like to tinker on one.

Thanks, Neal

The Robin 2 cycle engine was fitted on Snapper Commercial Hi-Vac mowers, which usually means steel, ball bearing wheels, braced handles and other goodies. The Robin has always been made by Fuji Heavy Industries. In the late 1980's or early 90's Fuji entered an arrangement with Teledyne-Wisconsin to market and support the Robin engines in the US. Wisconsin didn't go that small, and Fuji wasn't prepared to set up a full distribution system. Wisconsin has pretty much imploded and is no longer relevant. Fuji exited the partnership and now markets the Robin as a Subaru-Robin. BTW Subaru automobiles are made by Fuji.

Snappers have also been fitted with an imported Briggs 2 stroke, which I believe came from Japan. Pretty good engine but impossible to support. On the West Coast, Tanaka or TAS engines were also used. These were popular with commercial gardeners that wanted all equipment to run on pre-mix, so they didn't have to carry two fuel cans and risk having the help put straight gas in a 2 cycle.

I've also seen a couple Snappers fitted witht he Suzuki 2 stroke as used on the Toro Promaster, but I believe these were aftermarket transplants.

Finally, the Tecumseh TVS840 is an OK engine, but not a commercial machine, and should not be confused with one.

The Robin engines mostly came on commercial models, if not only. The commercial Hi-Vacs didn't look way different from the residentials because they used the same deck, handles, and drive hardware; and in fact I'm not sure that in the 1980s they even had a dedicated commercial Hi-Vac. The biggest visual differences were the steel front wheels and the extra handle braces triangulating to the deck. But check the model numbers on the decks: any model number beginning with "C" is a commercial Hi-Vac, and any model number ending in "R2" is the 2-cycle Robin engine (RV would be the 4-cycle monster). For instance, a "CP214012R2" is a commercial, self-propelled 4hp, series 12 robin 2-cycle mower (not sure if that's an actual model number, but just making an example here). If you see "T2" at the end instead, then you know it's a Tecumseh 2-cycle. The Robin 2-cycles were either white in color and called "Wisonsin-Robin" WT1-125V (I obviously can't recall the rest), or black overall and called "Robin Subarus" EC13V. They both had a black plastic fuel tank behind the engine, and should have metallic stickers on the top metal cover giving the model and either manufacturer name (they were sold to Subaru a while back). They have metal air filter housings that are sort of a tapered rectangle shape. Some Tecumseh 2-cycles had a cylindrical air filter housing which is pretty hoss. I think these are also commercial-duty engines, and are probably worthwhile looking into. They are definitely different than the residential-duty 2-cycles.

Now for a huge caveat. Around Houston, where I used to live, many yard crews don't even bother buying commercial Snappers because the differences are so few. And many of them re-engine their Snappers when the motor gives out because the basic deck and hardware is still good and serviceable. And many crews loved that Robin 2-cycle, so there may be a lot of hybridized Hi-Vacs that didn't start out with Robins but got retrofitted with them. This also may have happened more a few years ago when the engines stopped being sold because many crews bought all the replacement Robin motors they could find on shelves before stock ran out. So it's entirely possible you could find a Robin 2-cycle on a deck that didn't originally come with one. Somewhere in San Antonio is a hybrid Hi-Vac that I put together and sold to an enthusiast.

my dad has a snapper 21405 new in the box 2 cycle does anyone know what motor this has in it?

matt-thanks for covering all the bases and saving me a lot of typing!there was a semi-commercial series called the extra tough" which had steel wheels and better engines-the wis -rob was offered on this series in 2 cycle only (as was the tech and briggs 2 cycle) (i have both) the monster 4 cycle wis -rob was only offered on the full commercial which features the handle bracing (and needed too!) many of my snappers have been "commercialized" as you refered to by adding steel wheels and commercial grade engines. there were comm snappers in the 80,s and featured briggs i/c series engines in 4 and the mega -huge 5 hp engines. this engine is so big it makes the robin 4 cyc look small. it looks extremly out of place on the snapper body and would be more at home on a small riding mower. i had several of those briggs 2 cycles but junked them in disgust! impossiable to start! ran like a top once started. a truly frustrating engine!

Thanks for the info guys! I learned something today.

Last question (I promise)- The 2 cycle, Tecumseh I saw was labled a Recycler version. Since no one here is fond of the Tecumseh 2 cycle, here is my question: Did Snapper ever make a 2 cycle with the Robin egine which was also a Recycler or Mulching version? The Hi-Vac won't be in my garage. I hate to stop and empty the bag.

Hmmm, very interesting, Thanks for the information ggoyenche and matt21. Sounds like Snapper really had alot of options when it came to engines.
I'll have to check those old snappers out next time I'm in the mower pit.
Sounds like the Robin engines would be a good project to have.

Neal

robin sold on hi vac only but the hi vac is actually the best mulcher when equip with ninja or gator blade and the mulch cover installed and matt did you know there was a jr version of the wis robin 180V 5hp? its smaller /lighter and only rated at 4 hp. i got one nib on ebay last year . not nearly the preformer that the big monster is though but i am shure its as durable in the long run

Right, there's no reason you shouldn't mulch with a Hi-Vac. The only functional difference is that the bottom lip on the deck is turned under for a Hi-Vac and outward for the dedicated mulchers with the A.I.R. designation. I mulch with a Hi-Vac all the time, and so do a bunch of lawn crews.

Dan, I'm not familiar with a smaller OHV Robin. That would be interesting. I am familiar with the old L-head Robins, that I think might have been called WT1-185V or something like that. Although displacing the same as the EH18V, these would be much smaller and lighter due to the L-head configuration. They would also make a lot less power. But as you say, I'm sure they are anvil reliable. I thought about buying one on eBay once for a mower project, but never got around to it. My current mower is a C216012RV (commercial Hi-Vac with the monster Robin EH18V but no self-propel) that I added self-propel to. This thing was the deal of the century: the guy was local and listed it on eBay as a "Robin" mower instead of Snapper for $50 buy-it-now, IIRC. So nobody with a "Snapper" search ever saw it, and I snapped (pun intended) it up asap when I saw it. I went to pick it up, and it looked brand new. They guy couldn't start it, so he figured it was disposable. I got it home, cleaned out the carb, and it ran great. I added the drive system with parts I mostly had laying around, and now I have the Cadillac of Hi-Vacs (Cadi-Vac?).

matt -i couldnt imagine trying to use one of those behemouths with out self propel!

Not as bad as you'd think on a flat property with the nice ball-bearing wheels all around and the larger (8"/10") wheels. I think a lighter Snapper with plastic-bushed wheels would be almost as hard until you got to an incline. But I'm spoiled by always having self-propelled Snappers, so I wasn't going to settle for less!

Robins 2 cycle engines have ball bearings both ends of the crank very durable good seals are a must

Talk about a thread getting hijacked lol. Good thing its over 13 yrs old . As for the older 93 era Tecumseh engines were quite durable not as stout as the Suzuki or Robins perhaps but still a quality & test proven design .