Bill:

I'm growing peaches, apricots, plums, and related types on Citation in my greenhouse at 6ft by 8ft. This requires pruning about every 6 wks all summer long. But the trees are fruitful and fruit quality is good.

The same trees planted outside aren't as vigorous so it would be easier. But if your soil is strong, growth could be just as vigorous or more so than mine. So I think a lot depends on your situation.

I would not try the very close spacing on standard root unless I was very limited on space. I think a better option is grafting several varieties on one tree. The problem there is finding the budwood or graftwood when you need it. Also after the tree reaches maturity, and growth settles down, it is hard to get another budded variety to take off and amount to anything.

So, I'm not sold on the multiple tree in one hole idea but if you are willing to keep a close eye on things it can work with standard root. On a vigorous site you could have a real mess.

Planting standard root stone fruit about 6-8ft by 12ft and holding the height to about 8-10ft by regular summer pruning is a much better plan than multiple trees in a hole in my view.

The Fruitnut

My peaches up here in WI are spaced 5 ft apart. The height of the oldest tree is 10ft and i plan on keeping it around that. I don't think mine are on dwarf rootstock (whatever gurneys sells). I think by pruning, you can keep most trees under control.

I have also had no problems with standard peaches at 3' spacing in a row. I have some plums at 2' in a zig-zag and those are proving to be too close however.

Scott

Thanks for the info. Fruitnut, citation is a dwarfing rootstock. Do your peaches have the leaf nodes really close that make the tree look bushy? The 'super dwarf' trees I've seen growing, Eldorado and Bonanza that naturally top out at 4-6 ft, both have very thick canopies because of the dwarfing effect on the leaf nodes.

I'm worried about that here in the very humid area I'll be growing these peaches. Mildew, fungus, mold, etc., are already something to look out for and that's why I'd like to stay away from dwarfs and miniatues if possible while still keeping the trees under control and spaced closer than normal.

Scott, I've seen some pics on this forum of your orchard and WOW!, very, very nice. Have you posted any of your peaches at that 3' spacing? I'd like to see that. Thanks again for the info.

Bill:

Citation may dwarf a bit but you cann't tell by looking at the trees. They do not have the real close nodes of the genetic dwarfs. I'd stay away from those genetic dwarfs as much because the fruit is likely subpar as any other concerns.

There are tests being done in TX now with dwarfing stone fruit rootstocks. Only word I've heard is that Krymsk 1 looks good. It dwarfs 50% and can be bought at Raintree. I'm grafting some of my fruit onto it and trying that. Will have fruit on the first of that next yr. With K1 you could think about 6ft by 12 ft. I'd go 8ft by 12-16ft on standard if you have room. Citation does not have a good record in TX. I'd go with the standard seedling Lovell rather than Citation.

The Fruitnut

Scott-

Interesting insight on the 2ft zigzag spacing. I have 2 plums and plan to add 2 more. I'll have to go measure and see what the spacing will be like. I was planning on the zigzag, but i might just go with a line.

Aloha Fruitnut, thanks for the info. Both of the nurseries that have the varieties I'm most interested in graft onto either Nemaguard or Lovell with Nemaguard being the preferred of both of the nurserymen. I knew that and knew these were not dwarfing or miniaturizing rootstocks and then got concerned about being able to use the pruning/spacing techniques to create my backyard orchard.

I've got about 1/3 of an acre to play with, unless I cut out several more mature pecan trees, and so want to get my act together for the planting season this Jan. I already made a trip to the valley and brought back the citrus, now I've just got to get my peach plans under control.

Bill, I will try to get some pictures for you. Most of my peaches are in fact on zig-zags of 2-3' between trees due to the fact that I ran out of room for all the trees I wanted. On peaches those zigzags seem to work OK but it does add to the work a bit to try to keep all of them happy, and a few trees are a bit too squeezed. So the 3' straight is the best overall I would say. On plums the zigzags get more unmanageable, the trees push too much growth into each other.

Frank, if you are just putting four plums in one location you could put them in a zigzag. The problem comes when you have a row of 20 plums in a zigzag.

By the way the whole idea of a closely-spaced zigzag (two rows back-to-back and offset) was tried with success on peaches in Italy back in the 70's, so it is an old idea. They also concluded that in many ways a simple 3'-spaced row was better. See "Studies in Peach Double Row Planting" from Acta Hort., 1978. Note they also did not use dwarfing rootstocks in this study.

Scott

Hey Scott- I googled the title of the study and got no hits, can I find this online or is it only available by reprint or something?

Frank- my mom lives up in Ladysmith, WI and she told me the other nite that there's been a couple of times already with the temps dipping to the mid 30's overnight. Brrrrrr. Last Aug I was up there and went out one morning to be greeted by a crunchy, frosty covering on the ground. Man, I beat feet for south of the Mason-Dixon line ASAP.

bill-

Thats about 2hrs north of here. I think we dipped into the low 50's during that cold spell (nice refreshing airmass) but areas to the north and even to the east can be 10F+ cooler then us. The difference in climates from north to south in WI is very drastic. Today we are sitting @ 90F currently! Ladysmith is up by Hayward (due north of me) and very pretty area. Lots of lakes and fishing around that area.

Scott-
I'll look up that article.

Bill: I should have added the link .. see below. I have the full paper because I forked over something like $5 for it. BTW I was converting their spacing incorrectly, it was 1.5m which is 4.5'.

Scott

Here is a link that might be useful: article

Hey Scott,

I read the abstract of that article and wonder what the heck is a 'sprint palmettes'?

In the discussion of yield they wrote, "cumulative yields per tree were highest with 'sprint palmettes' (87Â107 kg/tree), followed by double rows with 1 230 trees/ha (65Â75 kg/tree)." In the full article do they explain that or the other term 'modified palmettes'?

Bill, I don't think those things are defined, they are standard pruning methods. Use Google to pull up some description.

If you drop me an email I can send you a copy of the article (single redistribution should be OK under fair use).

Scott