I've recently read about Early Golden, Rosseyanka and Meader . My understanding is meader has seedless fruit , Rosseyanka is a cross between the native and Asian persimmon with large fruit size. I've not read a benefit to early golden other than it's sweet? Here is a link with the top two cultivars http://www.starkbros.com/products/fruit-trees/persimmon-trees and I will add a link to the information I found on Early Golden, Rosseyanka and Meader .

Here is a link that might be useful: persimmons

Have both - large fruit, good quality.
NC-10 is the earliest here - often ripe by 15 Sept, heavy bearer, good quality.
Geneva Long very similar to NC-10, but fruit is a little larger, maybe just a little better.
Truthfully, Clark, to me, a good American persimmon is a good American persimmon - I can't tell any difference in flavor - just differences in size, shape, color.

Rosseyanka, a D.v.XD.k. hybrid is good - and different from most Americans...worth growing.

Keener, reputed to be a hybrid bred by Luther Burbank(though Jerry Lehman's been through Burbank's notes and never found any conclusive proof that he succeeded in making that cross - and I think it's all American) is also a bit different from most other Americans - just seems to have more 'fiber' in it's pulp; very sweet, and lends itself well to drying, as well as fresh eating

Thanks Lucky_p,
The Rosseyanka sounds the most promising to me and I was wondering how much water they need, disease resistance, heat tolerance etc.. I grow wild persimmons only right now. I found Rosseyanka for sale at edible landscaping

Here is a link that might be useful: Rosseyanka

This post was edited by ClarkinKS on Fri, Oct 31, 14 at 7:59

Clark,
Except for Rosseyanka, which came out of the Russian breeding program at Yalta(?), and some of the Claypool selections, most named American persimmon varieties are just chance superior selections from the wild - and have the same requirements/disease resistance/susceptibility, etc. as any other run-of-the-mill persimmon - just better fruit.

Meader likely will not be seedless for you, despite widespread catalog claims. I'd pass on it.
Early Golden - consistently wins taste comparisons year-in/year-out at the Claypool and Lehman orchards. May not be the largest, but may be the best! IIRC, Meader is a seedling of EG - and not as good as the mother, IMO.

Szukis(EG seedling) is recommended for z5.
I've seen a couple Meaders that do well in 5a-4b, haven't tried the actual fruit however.

Szukis(EG seedling) is recommended for z5.
I've seen a couple Meaders that do well in 5a-4b, haven't tried the actual fruit however.

I'll share my experience with this. I purchased an NC-10 persimmon and a small Rosseyanka in the fall of 2012. Believing these to be hardy I planted then outside upon arrival.

None of them made it through the first winter. But the clincher here is that they were shipped to me from zone 6 at the end of October and were not as dormant as mine. The NC-10 was replaced by a Yates the following fall and again it did not make it through the first winter.

I am not sure if the lesson is that Zone 5 rated persimmons need to be shipped in the spring or that they need winter protection (probably both). I want to try again with American persimmons but I will garage them for sure their first winter. I am also wondering if the dry Colorado air has something to do with it. Persimmons are from humid climates and maybe the harsh sun and dry air also contributed to their failure. At any rate I will definitely protect them when they planted, whenever I get more.

I have since purchased Great Wall and Smith's Best and they survived garaged their first winter shipped in the fall. These will have to be garaged every winter. Wish me luck!

mhg,
You may be correct about planting times and their relationship to survival. My understanding is that there are fruiting American persimmons in the Denver Botanic Garden, so...they will work there.
The late Lon Rombough(OR) had this to say about Meader:
"In the NW climate Meader will set seedless fruit and mature them, but it's a fluke of our climate. In most places, you have to have a male to pollinate it. HOWEVER, "Meader" is a seedling of Garretson, one of the "Early Golden"
family, and as such, carries genes that allow it to occasionally develop limbs of male flowers. If that happens, you will get seeded fruit as long as you don't prune the male limb off. There are also a few perfect flowered persimmons. One is Szukis (pronounced "shoe kiss") and another is one from breeder Jim Claypool, his F-100. I have both and have found the F-100 to be the most reliable. It is technically male, but it sets both small seedless fruit and larger seeded fruit. That is, it has both male flowers and some perfect flowers on the same tree."

My friend & mentor, Jerry Lehman said this:
"Prof. Meader was breeding persimmons. He released the Meader persimmon that was seedless in his breeding orchard. He sent wood to Jim Claypool that he could test and compare it with the many varieties he had in his persimmon orchard. But when it came into bearing at St. Elmo IL it wasn't seedless, it was fully seeded. So to test if it was seedless in the absence of 90 chromosome persimmon pollen Jim bagged flowers. The bagged flowers bore no fruit.
He then reported his findings to Prof. Meader who then bagged flowers on his original Meader tree with the same results, no fruit. Meader didn't have 90 C persimmon males. So what was triggering fruit? He did have chestnut trees shedding pollen at the same time and guessed that may have been the mechanism.
To my knowledge, that was never proven. What should be done is for someone who has chestnut trees and the Meader persimmon to bag some flowers. Then apply chestnut pollen to those flowers and see if those flowers bear.
By the way, Meader persimmon here overbears fully seeded fruit. This overbearing results in small fruit. Bottom line is it isn't better here than the average wild persimmon in Terre Haute, IN."

lucky_p ,
You guys have almost given me enough to think about to rethink my plan. I appreciate the insight. You know I have my heart set on the kaki type just because we have traditionally never been able to grow them.
MHG,
I will definitely wait until spring based on that information you gave me. Thank you
JesseSt,
I'm going to look that up and really appreciate the lead on the cultivar.

Lucky_p,

Thank you so much for the Jerry Lehman quote. I had pieced that together from a number of persimmon experts I've chatted with, but this is the first time I've seen such a cogent description.

Hope you don't mind, but I passed that quote on to folks on another forum growing persimmons for wildlife.

Lucky,
You are a wealth of information and willing to share it. I really appreciate that. Thanks a lot!

If you've got space, Saijo, Sheng, and Great Wall might be worth a trial - perhaps some of the most cold-hardy kaki types. Cliff England may be able to recommend others...
Rosseyanka is fully winter-hardy and productive for Jerry L. in Terre Haute, but its offpsring, Nikita's Gift (3/4 kaki) sustains winter injury almost every year there.

lucky-p

what zone is Terre Haute, will prok survive there