Kokos,

Several years ago, I needed to add a little boron to the soil. As I recall the test showed 1ppm recommended I add a very small amount for optimum soil nutrition. I researched it quite a bit and found that regular 20 Mule Borax (100% sodium tetraborate) is the same thing as the old agricultural borax. It's cheaper than Grandubor and can be obtained from the grocery store. Sodium tetraborate is 11.5% actual boron.

I'd be very apprehensive about adding boron if my soil test came back high. In that case, I might only do it if leaf analysis called for it. Boron operates in a very narrow optimum range. 1.5ppm is about right, at 3ppm the soil starts to become toxic. If too much boron is added, the soil will be dead for a long time.

If you want to use your Solubor for a soil application, you'll just need to calculate how many ppm boron you want to add (probably less than 1ppm) and the square footage you want to treat. It appears Solubor is 20% actual boron. A footacre of soil weighs b/t 3 and 4.5 mil pounds (depending on the makeup - sandy soils are on the lighter end, while clay soils are on the heavier side). This works out nicely for ppm calculations. For example if your soil weighs 4 mil pounds/footacre, then adding 4 lbs/acre of some mineral equals 1 ppm; 8 lbs. equals 2ppm, etc. You just have to break it down to the square footage you want to treat.

According to the lab I sent my soil test too...
there is a "VERY HIGH" bracket too for Boron levels in soil. I was at "HIGH"....I had a reading of 2.3 ppm.
The problem is with me that I'm a home gardener so there are no acres involved in my calculations. The area I planted with apple trees has been raised off the ground by at least 30 cm's with manure, peat moss(on top of the existing poorer native sandy soil). It has been worked in over several years in order to enrich the earth. I live in a city and have been adding manure and organic matter into my soil for years. After the soil levels were raised the planting of fruit trees took place...(last year). So I stopped adding organic matter into the soil ever since. My house was built in 1910...so I don't know if graders were involved or not in scraping away quality top soil. I do know that is I dig down about 4 feet there is yellow sandy soil that looks very sandy in appearance. Someone told me no matter how much organic matter I added that it eventually would all disintegrate to it's natural soil level...is this true?
That means that the apple trees will be exposing there roots eventually as the organic matter breaks down over the years...makes no sense.

Soil Test Results:

Phosphorous - P ppm
-Bicarb. (107) "very high"
-Bray-P1 (290) "
Saturation P % 100 ppm "very high"
Potassium - k ppm
-(1394) "Very High"
Magnesium - Mg pm
-(690) - "high"
Calcium - Ca ppm
-(3380) "medium"
Sodium - Na ppm
-(145) "very high"
Ph = 6.6
buffer= 6.9
Zinc - 30.3 ppm "very high"
Manganese - 28 ppm "medium"
Iron - 111 ppm "very high"
Copper - 3.3 ppm "very high"
Boron - 2.3 ppm "high"

Kokos, I very much share the olpea's misgivings about adding B to your soil at this juncture. You didn't share the pH results of your soil test. If the soil varies significantly from the optimum 6.2-6.5 level, nutrient uptake can be affected in a major way (varying from nutrient to nutrient). Lime or sulphur as indicated, but the results may take years to change.

The proof of the pudding is in the tasting. A leaf analysis would be much more instructive to you, as these results will show what's actually happening in the tree, rather than in the soil. The B reading should be between 25-60. If you're low, look closely at the pH and for immediate results use a foliar spray. For the backyard orchardist, I recommend simply using MiracleGro,or equivalent, as the trace amounts therein are likely to be sufficient, and the usage risk is zero. Not so with Solubor--improper dosage or using low-volume spraying equipment can cause serious damage or death to the tree. Remember, B is a MICRO nutrient and little is required. In excess, it is graveyard toxic. One can mix MiracleGro with sprays for insects and fungicides. Subsequent leaf analyses will show the effect of the foliar program.

B affects pollination and the translocation of Ca from the roots to other parts of the tree. Under the best of circumstances, Ca is a slow mover, so if leaf analysis is below the optimum 1.5-2.0 range (which I suspect) your trees will appreciate an aggressive foliar Ca program in the form of calcium nitrate or calcium chloride or proprietary compounds following label instructions. These, too, can be added to your cover sprays, but may cause damage under extreme weather conditions. Read the labels carefully, and don't mix calcium chloride and Solubor.

Misterbaby.

Here is a link that might be useful: Apple fertilization guidance

Thanks...I will ask the place I tested the soil if they do leaf analysis. The Honeycrisp variety which I have will no doubt need calcium spray. It is really suspetible to bitter pit. A farmer told me he sprays them 8 times a season with calcium!

My Ph is not in the optimal range?
I didn't understand the last message.
thanks again.

Oplea, is the Borax by 20 mule team that is sold in supermarkets suitable for the home garden...I have never seen it state it anywhere. There is probably another additive in their that should not be used in the garden....I'm assuming.
Which supermarkets in the U.S. sell this I have not seen it in Canada. This Borax by 20 mule is suitable for foliar fertilizer application also?
thanks again.

Kokos, I was referring to the optimum results for Ca, not pH, as 1.5-2.0. Your state's agricultural extension service likely does leaf analysis (about $25/sample). I use 20 mule team as a soil additive at the rate of a pinch to a 20-gallon tub of water. Each tree gets about a quart of the solution. But you don't need any. Misterbaby.

Kokos, ooops, provincial Ministry of Agriculture. Misterbaby.

Here is a link that might be useful: Canadian soil/leaf testing

What supermarket in the U.S. can you get it from?
Would you use it for foliar feeding if you had too..or is it not suited for it you think?
I'd like to know just in case. I am cultivating another area of the backyard with very poor soil(0 organic matter ever added) and I might need it down the road.

thanks

Kokos, I got a box in the laundry soap section at Kroger. I wouldn't chance it for foliar feeding. Mulching your trees and MiracleGro foliar should put you in good shape, really. I grow fine apples in cement-like dirt devoid of topsoil using these methods. Misterbaby.

Stick with a foliar application after getting a leaf analysis done to see if you need anything.

It looks to me like your soil test is reflective of adding large quantities of manure--most nutrients are very high, and many nutrients can act as substitutes. High levels of one nutrient can result in a deficiency of another in the plant, not because the nutrient is lacking but because another is present in such high levels that the plant takes it up in excess instead, leaving a deficiency. I've had personal experience with this in my garden. After applying large quantities of manure for several years, my soil tests showed nutrient levels were all very high, my pH came down a few tenths (mid 7's instead of high 7's to low 8's), and I started developing symptoms of zinc deficiency even though the soil test showed it was "very high" in the soil. A shot of foliar zinc cleared up the problem and I backed off on the manure. After that, my salt levels declined dramatically, also.

Your soil calcium levels are good and the boron levels are right where you want them, so any deficiency is probably due to an uptake problem.

As said, boron can become very toxic very quickly. I would never add boron to the soil at a rate higher than 2 lbs/acre because of the risk of getting too much--at a presence of 4lbs/ac. in the soil, you would be killing it.

Manure tends to be very high in salts from the urine and your sodium levels are fairly high. You should continue to hold off on manure applications for a few years and make sure the soil is well watered when watered to help wash the sodium out through natural drainage.

All the organics you added will decay over time and you will need to add soil or additional organic matter (leaves, grass clippings, compost, etc) to keep the soil level up. If you continually add a lot of organics, the organic component of the soil will increase due to the higher supply. If you stop, it will decrease over time to natural levels based on how much vegetative matter normally falls on or grows in the soil.

Natural topsoil will run from a few inches to several feet thick. Under that, you get a mineral soil based on what nature provided. I wouldn't worry about a yellowish sand several feet down. The plants are getting most of their nutrients from the top foot, and the sand may help provide drainage.

"The plants are getting most of their nutrients from the top foot, and the sand may help provide drainage".

A sandy subsoil damages drainage if it is coarser than the topsoil by interfering with the capillary pull. Some of the serious drainage issues I encounter are when a silty topsoil lies on virtual beach sand.

This is in response to Beeone, although I completely agree with everything else he says but drainage could possibly be an issue if the soil is too wet through spring. This would deprive forming fruit of necessary nutrition because the roots wouldn't be functioning with adequate oxygen.

Years ago a Cornell fruit adviser told me of orchards he'd seen with serious nutrient deficiencies that had been manure fertilized for what I assume to be the reasons Beeone stated here.

Kokos,

I think everyone here has given you good instruction. Looking at your soil test, I agree you don't need any boron added to the soil. And Beeone's analysis about how different nutrients react is spot on.

Excesses of some nutrients can cause deficiencies in others, even when the others are in the correct range in the soil. The answer is generally to try to reduce the excess nutrients not add more of the others. Your potassium and phosphorous are extremely high. K will eventually wash out, but P tends to stay put.

To answer your question, 20 mule borax is supposed to be 100% sodium tetraborate, so there are no additives. But again, you don't need any for your soil.

Regarding whether the organic component of soil returns to an equilibrium level. Of course the answer is yes. However, while I agree with the books that say organic matter will reach an equilibrium, I think many times the organic equilibrium is significantly underestimated.

What I mean is that so many times (at least in the Midwest) you can find soils that are deep, rich, and chalked full of organic matter, while in the same area find soils that are thin and clayey. For example, when I lived in MO, there were some soils in the region called Marshall loam. These soils were deep and rich. But outside of certain areas, the soil quality dropped off significantly, even though the rainfall, grade, elevation, etc. were similar. In either cases, farming was equally intensive. My own soil here in KS had 4.9% organic matter (which is considered excellent) before I ever started adding mulch.

It seems to me, once a glacier piles up an area of rich soil, it's organic equilibrium level is pretty high. I have to think the same thing occurs when people build up soil by hand.

But keep in mind, fruit trees perform better on soils somewhat less fertile than soils optimum for garden vegetables.

I got some very good info off you guys...
scary idea that the soil level will drop over time. Good thing I have the root stocks planted a little deeper and have a water basin formed around them to keep the scion from being buried. (don't know if you can you picture what I mean?)

I will back off the manure...
if soil levels do fall over time....what about adding "peat loam soil" from a garden centre which sells it by the truck full...is that as high in organic matter as manure is?

Good thing that the borax can be available in such a smaller size at the supermarket would save me some money if I ever need it down the road.

Yes, I do water the garden well when the veggies are planted and the fruit trees for that matter. In the summer you can see the water disappearing before your eyes and barely even making an accumulation on the surface.

thanks to all.

What breaks down organic matter in the soil quickly is stirring the soil. It really doesn't take much organic matter added to sustain OM fertility in tree culture. Plowing fields gets so much oxygen in the mix that breakdown is vastly accelerated in much the same way sandy soils break down OM much faster than clay or silt soils.

Some of the best tasting fruit I've ever had comes from orchards with very sandy soil and very low OM percentage. I have posted on this forum that in my own orchard I believe I've made the soil too rich from annual mulching for 20 years. My peaches used to be sweeter.

Exactly Harvestman...

Basically if I till this area by machine every year the organic matter will disappear...which it has...I noticed the soil level an 1" or 2" shorter this year....applied the last dose of manure in 2007.
It's good to know this stuff

There's basically going to be some fruit trees in my yard standing in air...I'm waiting to see.
lol